2021 Roster Thread XVII - Targeting "Someone Else"

[Striiker]

It’s a shame our coach and GM are too stupid to evaluate defensemen properly.

 

[TheKingPin]

I don't think Fletcher is stupid enough to overpay for a $10M player with serious health flags when his primary needs is defense and goalie.
Even if Ghost isn't picked in the ED or traded, he's destined for a 3rd pair role.
A veteran RHD and a veteran goalie will be on the top of the shopping list.

Having a deep center group is a great cup winning formula. Having Eichel and Couts is close to tops in the league

 

[BigToe]

I’ll take the field that the most overall impactful player the Flyers passed on was not Caufield.

Don't disrespect the short king, Gusa.

 

[Magua]

Don't disrespect the short king, Gusa.

 

[renberg]

I don't know that you can read much into that vague a statement made by the rumor mill. Most importantly, I just hope it means they're actively making a play for Eichel.

This Eichel situation is going to go nuts. Over a month ago there was a rumor that the Sabres wanted Lafreniere, Sesterkin, DeAngelo and Strome in return. Supposedly the Rags answered with that package but Kakko instead of Lafreniere. The Sabres passed and are insisting on Lafreniere. Runors are that a potential Eichel deal with LA starts with Byfield and goes on from there. Buffalo wants a #1C candidate, a top defenseman, a starting goalie plus in the deal. If the package for Eichel is that high, the Flyers really don't have the horses to be in that race unless they put Couturier in the deal which would be silly. In the end, my call is that the Rags will get Eichel. The new regime wants to make a big splash.

 

[Harhis]

In each of his first two seasons he started off kinda slow (understandable for the first handful of games of a rookies career and the year after being the time period that got Hak fired where the whole team sucked) but then scored at ~50 point pace for the last 30-40 games.

So it’s not like he’s never played well and shown the ability to score before. This past year is likely just a fluke, so even if he doesn’t become a ~50 point guy, he’ll likely score more than he just did.

Every player has good streches. Yes it is possible Patrick figures it out and becomes 2C, I just think it is more likely he ends up being "bust". Not enough consitency, eye test really never has complimented him and neither has numbers.

 

[Redpath]

I will be completely shocked if Buffalo gets Zegras, Byfield, or Lafreniere in an Eichel trade. Star players get sold off semi-regularly, top 5 prospects don't.

 

[phil162888]

Caufield is a lot smaller than Zuc, more like Gaudreau but shorter.
Similar to DeBrincat. Who can certainly score, but who has less value than his raw scoring stats would suggest.
How much is his size, and how much playing in a scheme that inflates scoring at the expense of defense remains to be seen.

Brink is more like Gourde, who is listed at 5'9 172 but plays bigger.
Now Gourde spent five years in the AHL, don't think Brink will need that, but watching him in the WJC-20, Brink is a tough little customer who isn't afraid of dirty areas, but needs to get stronger for that style of play.

Of course, it's not Caufield v Brink, but Caufield v York and Brink.

Caufield is definitely looking like a Reagor vs Jefferson type mistake....Fans and analysts are looking right . Kid has been unbelievable anyone that actually watches can see that. For a kid to be the Habs best offensive player after only playing 10 regular season games is insane especially during the playoffs when the play tightens up so much.... BTW for someone on here every day you should know its not Caufield v York and Brink......its Caufield v York....Will see about York but 100% kid looks like a sniper and pure offensive talent

 

[Magua]

Flyers directly passed on the possible Calder winner for Ratcliffe — pure evaluation pick — and people can’t stop debating York (who will likely be a valuable player) vs Caufield because of small sample.

 

[Striiker]

Every player has good streches. Yes it is possible Patrick figures it out and becomes 2C, I just think it is more likely he ends up being "bust". Not enough consitency, eye test really never has complimented him and neither has numbers.

The eye test was fine during the second half of the first two years. He was scoring and showing some flashes of real skill, plus outplaying Simmonds in the netfront role of the PP.




Even this past year, his problem was being too passive offensively and generating nearly zero offense, not that he was bad at everything. His possession and D metrics were perfectly fine, outside of having horrific goaltending luck. So when you consider what he was good offensively at for half of his first two seasons, you can see that the ability to score is definitely there... it's just a matter of confidence and getting out of this slump, which is obviously harder than it sounds but not impossible.

That's why I'm waiting to judge until after this upcoming year. It's too early for people to be making concrete judgements on a player with a situation as unusual as his has been.

 

[TheKingPin]

I thought York looked amazing

 

[TCTC]

I thought York looked amazing

Yeah, he looked pretty good in his short cameo this year and you only hear good things about him. So I have no idea why people are complaining about the pick.

Caufield has 2 goals in these playoffs. He's looked good, but it's not like he's carried his team to the Conference Final.

 

[Starat327]

Flyers directly passed on the possible Calder winner for Ratcliffe — pure evaluation pick — and people can’t stop debating York (who will likely be a valuable player) vs Caufield because of small sample.

This board has a VERY bad case of recency bias.

 

[phil162888]

I'd be stunned if the Sabres get anything close to whats suggested unless they take back a couple bad contracts. Eichel has not lived up to the hype...he's injured...has attitude issues and is paid $10 million in a tight cap. I'd like him on this team but I doubt the names being mentioned ever happen.. just a guess what we'd be offering

Sanheim + (Jake/JVR)+Patrick+ Zamula + 1st for Eichel and Risto (50%) or
Patrick+ TK+ Myers+ 1st+Ustimenko/Ersson for Risto (50%) + Eichel

Both are big trades imo not sure if we would do them (or if I would do them) but I think this would be what it looks like realistically .

 

[kudymen]

This board has a VERY bad case of recency bias.

Which is great asset for evaluating 20 yr old defensemen

 

[phil162888]

The eye test was fine during the second half of the first two years. He was scoring and showing some flashes of real skill, plus outplaying Simmonds in the netfront role of the PP.




Even this past year, his problem was being too passive offensively and generating nearly zero offense, not that he was bad at everything. His possession and D metrics were perfectly fine, outside of having horrific goaltending luck. So when you consider what he was good offensively at for half of his first two seasons, you can see that the ability to score is definitely there... it's just a matter of confidence and getting out of this slump, which is obviously harder than it sounds but not impossible.

That's why I'm waiting to judge until after this upcoming year. It's too early for people to be making concrete judgements on a player with a situation as unusual as his has been.

I agree 100%. People are forgetting how promising he looked second half of both those seasons. I think its (1) health (2) mental part of the game. He could very well break out that's why I wouldn't trade him at all unless its a large deal where good value is coming back. He's only going to be making $1 million there's zero risk in keeping him for another half season with a massive upside

 

[deadhead]

Caufield is definitely looking like a Reagor vs Jefferson type mistake....Fans and analysts are looking right . Kid has been unbelievable anyone that actually watches can see that. For a kid to be the Habs best offensive player after only playing 10 regular season games is insane especially during the playoffs when the play tightens up so much.... BTW for someone on here every day you should know its not Caufield v York and Brink......its Caufield v York....Will see about York but 100% kid looks like a sniper and pure offensive talent

It's like being the tallest midget, when the competition is Toffoli, Suzuki, Gallagher and Danault.
TK would probably be the best offensive player on the Habs as well.
Caufield is flashy, but let's see how he produces over an extended period.
He should be a good scorer, but given his obvious limitations, I think he has to be a 50+ ES scorer to have real value.

 

[Starat327]

Which is great asset for evaluating 20 yr old defensemen

It really is baffling to me. 12 months ago people were spanking their meat to him working out with chains around his neck. Now Caufield scores a goal or two in the playoffs and York is chopped liver.

What the hell is York supposed to do? Dress up as Pieterangelo and hope noone notices? It's not his fault this coaching staff sucks and failed their way to another embarrassment of a season.

 

[kudymen]

It really is baffling to me. 12 months ago people were spanking their meat to him working out with chains around his neck. Now Caufield scores a goal or two in the playoffs and York is chopped liver.

What the hell is York supposed to do? Dress up as Pieterangelo and hope noone notices? It's not his fault this coaching staff sucks and failed their way to another embarrassment of a season.

It is only baffling when you have low experience in dentistry

 

[FlyerNutter]

Thing with Caufield vs York. Won’t be able to evacuate that shit for a few years at least. When really, both might end up being good players.

For now I’ll enjoy watching Caufield. The kid looks happy as hell every time I see him.

 

[Striiker]

It really is baffling to me. 12 months ago people were spanking their meat to him working out with chains around his neck. Now Caufield scores a goal or two in the playoffs and York is chopped liver.

What the hell is York supposed to do? Dress up as Pieterangelo and hope noone notices? It's not his fault this coaching staff sucks and failed their way to another embarrassment of a season.

Actually, according to many on this board, it's Giroux's and Voracek's fault. All blame falls on the core and leadership.

They've been here the whole time the teams sucked so it must be their fault.

 

[Curufinwe]

Flyers directly passed on the possible Calder winner for Ratcliffe — pure evaluation pick — and people can’t stop debating York (who will likely be a valuable player) vs Caufield because of small sample.

And passed on a 40 goal scorer twice the previous season.

 

[Rebels57]

I get he’s fun to watch, but seems like York is being treated like he’s slop. Kid is gonna be real good.

Possibly. He hasnt proven it. Once he does the hysteria will subside.

 

[Magua]

And passed on a 40 goal scorer twice the previous season.

I don’t imagine Hextall would’ve ever taken DeBrincat. That seems so against type, unlike Robertson.

I thought Meltzer said something like, Fletcher would’ve taken Caufield (he did trade up for Brink); he just had others rated higher. I had Caufield above York (and 3 others passed on), but the Flyers took someone who should provide plenty value in his own right, whether more or less. That’s all you can ask.

 

[Rebels57]

I don’t imagine Hextall would’ve ever taken DeBrincat. That seems so against type, unlike Robertson.

I thought Meltzer said something like, Fletcher would’ve taken Caufield (he did trade up for Brink); he just had others rated higher. I had Caufield above York (and 3 others passed on), but the Flyers took someone who should provide plenty value in his own right, whether more or less. That’s all you can ask.

The other you keep alluding to is Boldy, right? That was my guy on draft day.