2021 Roster Thread XIV - Off-season edition

[Rebels57]

Yes. Look at his likes on twitter.

What a loser.

 

[Tripod]

Andrew MacDonald Transactions - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

No one was claiming that AMac was a top pairing Dman at the time of being waived. But that is happening with Ghost.

Do you think he is a top pairing Dmen?

 

[FLYguy3911]

No one was claiming that AMac was a top pairing Dman at the time of being waived. But that is happening with Ghost.

Do you think he is a top pairing Dmen?

Dave Hakstol was.

Top pair in the traditional sense? No, I don't think so.

Top pair on aggregate in a top 4 with an even distribution of ice time, while getting max usage on the PP? I think there's a non-zero chance he's top pair quality. I feel more comfortable calling him middle pair in general, but if Ghost is playing on a team like Colorado (Makar, Girard, Toews, Byram) the perception of him is probably a lot different than it is now.

Fwiw, Evolving-Wild's model had him worth 7.7 million this season. +3 million surplus value.

 

[Beef Invictus]

No one was claiming that AMac was a top pairing Dman at the time of being waived. But that is happening with Ghost.

Do you think he is a top pairing Dmen?

Ghost played like one. Then he was waived.

We should probably be deeply worried about how our team appraises and evaluates talent based upon that.

We got lucky that the NHL is still a dinosaur league by and large. We are especially lucky that the teams most likely to recognize Ghost for what he is also didn't have space to add him.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Still not as terrible as you claim. He focused on defense this year. Last year he focused on offense. Either way he still outscores his opposition.

This is worth decent cap hit on the market. I wish Gardiner were our worst dman.

If he was worth his contract they wouldn’t have waived him & he wouldn’t be a healthy scratch. End of story.

 

[Beef Invictus]

If he was worth his contract they wouldn’t have waived him & he wouldn’t be a healthy scratch. End of story.

That's a ridiculous statement.

It's a testament to Carolina's absurd depth on defense, not Gardiner's overall quality. Gardiner is a middle pairing player on most teams.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

That's a ridiculous statement.

It's a testament to Carolina's absurd depth on defense, not Gardiner's overall quality. Gardiner is a middle pairing player on most teams.

Yeah, because teams like to tie up $4M in cap space per season for 4 years on #7/8 defensemen who who they waive & don’t play in the playoffs. Great point. The fact is that the Gardiner signing was a disappointment & failure.

 

[Striiker]

Ghost played like one. Then he was waived.

We should probably be deeply worried about how our team appraises and evaluates talent based upon that.

We got lucky that the NHL is still a dinosaur league by and large. We are especially lucky that the teams most likely to recognize Ghost for what he is also didn't have space to add him.

Yep. He played like one, carried our “#1D” on the top pair for a while, then was scapegoated and spent the rest of the year on the 3rd pair with one of Hagg, Myers, Gus, and Prosser.

Labels like “top pair” are usually pretty useless because who the hell knows what that really means to each different person, but to me it’s just basically “is the player capable of playing there, looking like he belongs, and thriving”? For Ghost that’s a clear “yes”. Proved over and over again.

Being waived doesn’t change that. It just shows how stupid the staff is.

 

[deadhead]

Dave Hakstol was.

View attachment 441178

Fwiw, Evolving-Wild's model had him worth 7.7 million this season. +3 million surplus value.

What value did they put on Hagg?

 

[tucson83]

even if we are the perfect drafting team, we still need that toper that will get us over the hump, i mean look at toronto, san jose great drafting teams never got over the hump because they never traded for that player that will get them over the hump. we are a good team but we need that player or two to get us over the hump, that's why im saying we need to clear cap and get these guys so we can give giroux a cup.

 

[FlyerNutter]

“We need that player or two to get us over the hump”

Nothing personal but I always get a kick out of this.

Years out of a rebuild, the franchise is trying to find a #1 D dman through FA or trade.

Trying to still find a true dynamic star forward to actually help pass the torch to.

Were (in their eyes) forced to overpay for someone to fill a 2C hole.

Now having to go out and find a 1B goaltender?

This thing isn’t one of two players away. It’s nothing but a lie, and throwing shit at a wall - hoping for minimal success.

 

[deadhead]

Again, people are overreacting to a clusterf--k season.
This team is far more talented than the 2017-18 team.
And getting more talented each year, how many teams will add the equivalent of Frost, Alison, Laczynski, York and Zamula next season?

We know with just average goaltending this is a playoff team. It took historically bad goaltending to sink this team.
And we know that with better health, this is a much improved team.

What we don't know is if this is a marginal PO team (like the Caps, Pens, Oilers, Blues) or a top eight team that can potentially get to the CF.

Fletcher just needs to be patient this offseason, don't make any panic moves, trust your talent, and fix the two priorities, goalies and defense.
This is a young roster getting younger, this is not the time for moves like TB, mortgaging the future to win a Cup.
First walk, then run.

 

[flyersnorth]

Im not buying this organization’s magic beans that they are anything but dreaming of that mystical first round matchup. This club isn’t anywhere close to winning a damn thing, and should stop pretending it is.

So what would you have them do? Do you believe that the Flyers are all set on personnel internally?

They've done basically nothing for nearly a decade. I'd say it's a good time to do *something* since *nothing* hasn't worked out very well for the Flyers.

 

[deadhead]

Ghost has two good qualities, one is carrying the puck through the neutral zone, the other is as PP QB.
He has declined in the second role, probably b/c his loss of agility over the years has caused teams to become more aggressive at challenging him with the puck so he has less room and time to maneuver than in his prime.

He's not a great offensive threat 5x5, he's not a physical presence in the D-zone, and he doesn't have the IQ of someone like Spurgeon.
The metrics and eyeballs agree, he's not a liability, but he's not special either.
He doesn't have great speed, though he's regained his lateral agility, he consistently loses foot races to faster players, which means he can't outskate his mistakes anymore. Which forces him to play more conservatively.

Ghost is better than AMac in his prime, but he's not Kimmo or even Niskanen at 33.
And there is no great demand for him around the league, I doubt all 31 other GMs are idiots who can't recognize a hidden gem.
There's plenty of film, GMs know he is what he is with no upside left now that he's healthy again.

 

[Striiker]

So what would you have them do? Do you believe that the Flyers are all set on personnel internally?

They've done basically nothing for nearly a decade. I'd say it's a good time to do *something* since *nothing* hasn't worked out very well for the Flyers.

“Nothing”... except change 99% of the roster.

They did what you have to do to build a contender, except it hasn’t turned out like that yet, for a few key reasons. That doesn’t mean that path was/is wrong or that we need to drastically change course. They just need to stop making mistakes and get a little good luck to go their way.

 

[FlyerNutter]

So what would you have them do? Do you believe that the Flyers are all set on personnel internally?

They've done basically nothing for nearly a decade. I'd say it's a good time to do *something* since *nothing* hasn't worked out very well for the Flyers.

The core pieces that lead often determine success are nowhere near good enough when compared to the rest of the league.

Especially when those best core pieces still strongly remain as Giroux, Jake, JVR and a soonish 30year old Couturier who has a decent injury history in my eyes.

In my eyes are there two options here. Napalm, and admitting not nearly enough high end was harvested since 2014.

Or, and I’m not very in favour of this - getting Eichel. I don’t care if they pay through the nose. There are plenty of holes on this club already, and I really don’t see the infusion of more secondary youngsters doing a damn thing. That’s actually something that might move the needle. There should be no fear at this point. This club has been worse than a bottom feeder for a decade. At least the bottom feeders are rewarded in the draft.

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

Take your talents to a new thread.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yeah, because teams like to tie up $4M in cap space per season for 4 years on #7/8 defensemen who who they waive & don’t play in the playoffs. Great point. The fact is that the Gardiner signing was a disappointment & failure.

Gardiner was paid market value for his skill level. It isn't his fault that Carolina assembled a defense good enough to relegate him. That doesn't make him less of a player.

The reasoning you're using is absurd.