GDT: 2021 Kraken Entry Draft
- Thread starter Fistfullofbeer
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That's cause Detroit is a huge huge mess. Here's the thing how can you really judge players if you can't even see them in person...
How often are they successful, though? Any names come to mind, excceptions to the rule, reaches that turned out brilliantly? I can't think of any at the moment, anyway. Knowing when to pick is as important as knowing who to pick.
RainyCityHockey
Registered User
I also find those reactions quite strange.
Teams are always going with their lists and they either hit or miss.
For example, two years ago Detroit took Seider at #6 and everyone thought Yzerman was crazy and now Seider's one of the best prospects out there.
jbron
Registered User
You really have to wonder if Francis has really pissed off a lot of GM's by his asking price during the expansion draft. Or is he really that conservative or bull headed. Maybe a little of both. Understand the advanced stats pick in Evans. However, at #35 that's crazy. Trade down would have been ideal and there appears many teams are doing just that. Leaving prospect assets on the table because you zero in on a particular player hurts future trades and the Kraken development pool.
Every other team has the exact same problem and you don't see any of them making an out-of-left field reach this early. At the very least. this is horrendous asset management, one of the most important things a GM needs to be good at.
Teams have different ways at scouting and looking at players. Remember we are running this organization based on analytics.
what's ya issue? Good lord. We only just started actually getting players...
The Marquis
Moderator
Let’s pretend for a moment that Evans was the top guy available on the Kraken’s list. Why is taking him at 35 a bad plan? Also, the analytics are there, and there are a few other clubs high on analytics. Just because the “experts” don’t have him ranked high doesn’t mean other teams don’t. You take your guy when he’s available. Heck, maybe he was always going to be the second Seattle pick.
RainyCityHockey
Registered User
Have you ever heard of Shai Buium before?
That's the guy Yzerman ended up trading up for.
SwedeKraken
Registered User
No, I got you. That is all true but I just thought Francis would stay clear of controversial picks but I guess I was wrong.
Me, I am definately more moneyball than gut feeling.
There are many ways to take a look at a player. Some do it the more traditional way others look at advance stats before deciding.
Fistfullofbeer
Moderator
Do you remember where Matthew Barzal was picked? Shea Weber? Joe Pavelski? Good players drop all the time. Some GM's take chances on them and get lucky.
But thats not the point though. You are focusing on the fact that it is a reach because of different scouting lists. GM's and teams have their own lists. For example, the Sharks AGM stated yesterday that Eklund was 2nd on their list, behind Beniers. So does that mean they thought Power sucked? No, just that they were looking at stats and or attributes that match better to what they want.
Let's not act like the GM's just spin a board with names and throw darts at it to pick one. At the end of the day, we are fans but this is their job. I am not saying this pick won't be a bust. Far from it, the % of picks in the 2nd round that make the NHL is pretty low to begin with. Infact there is a greater chance that a 2nd round picks busts than makes it as a regular NHL'er. My point is that they have done their due diligence and feel that this was the right choice. Only time will tell if that was true or not.
The problem now has become that there is a set of fans on our board who have decided that GMRF is setting us up for failure because he didn't make enough moves in the expansion draft or swing any trades (yet) in the entry draft. For those people, every little move that he makes that is NOT aligned with their thinking is not a good one. Its fine to not be happy with the moves but the whole doom-and-gloom attitude with GMRF is not good given that he has not even had a chance to ice a roster yet.
To me that was a prime spot to move down. If you move down 5 or so spots Evans is almost surely still there.
And even if he's not, is the next guy on your list that much different? History shows that at this point most of these guys are busts or marginal nhlers who play a few years and then are out of the league. Probably 2 or 3 picks out of this round are impact guys. You can be certain that you've got one of the 3, but chances are you're wrong.
Getting more picks gives you a better chance that one of your lottery tickets is a winner.
And even if he's not, is the next guy on your list that much different? History shows that at this point most of these guys are busts or marginal nhlers who play a few years and then are out of the league. Probably 2 or 3 picks out of this round are impact guys. You can be certain that you've got one of the 3, but chances are you're wrong.
Getting more picks gives you a better chance that one of your lottery tickets is a winner.
The Marquis
Moderator
Once upon a time, every NHL team failed to draft Mark Giordano, Ed Belfour, Brian Rafalski, Adam Oates, and a slew of others. Complaining about any pick outside of the top half of the first round is a complete joke.
Fistfullofbeer
Moderator
This I can agree with in principle. Though, at times GM's think/feel/know that the pick in question may not make it that far and just take a chance. Heck, I remember the Sharks moving up 2 spots in a draft to pick Mirco Mueller because they thought the team after them would grab him. It was a reach and one that they actually paid to get to.
The guy ranked 20th among NA skaters according to the NHL prospects list? That guy?
RainyCityHockey
Registered User
Cool.
Had you heard about him before?
I've watched some scouting videos(certainly not all available) and never saw him.
Must be all stupid and only some lists count....
We're in the 2nd round of a draft that had two years of Covid shortened seasons and people are going crazy who we're taking.....
Fistfullofbeer
Moderator
This is a legit question. I think it is a little bit of both as well.
Till we see GMRF swing more deals, the general perception would be exactly that. Either he does not want to trade OR people don't want to trade with him.
Fistfullofbeer
Moderator
I will go a step further and say that only 1 list counts. The teams list.
People can get upset all they want about the picks we make today but it will be atleast 2-3 years before we know enough to pass judgement. Right now, the only criticism on that can be, 'it is a reach because I had s0-and-so at a different number'.
jbron
Registered User
Prospects do fall for many reasons. Injury, size, interviews, off ice issues, etc. With Evans we aren't looking at a falling player, but a huge
reach. A prospect who most likely would have been available in the third round. Further, in the Kraken case it was a high second round pick
at #35. Even in a covid year, it's more than just analytics it's about judging value and when to select a certain player. As fans you hope for the best, but that doesn't mean that we operate under rose colored glasses and just adopt a wait and see situation. Certainly, we can look at some of the questionable picks GMRF has made and some of the other deals that for whatever reason he hasn't made and begin to see a certain pattern.
Even if early on in the process, we are learning just what the Kraken have an don't have in a GM.
reach. A prospect who most likely would have been available in the third round. Further, in the Kraken case it was a high second round pick
at #35. Even in a covid year, it's more than just analytics it's about judging value and when to select a certain player. As fans you hope for the best, but that doesn't mean that we operate under rose colored glasses and just adopt a wait and see situation. Certainly, we can look at some of the questionable picks GMRF has made and some of the other deals that for whatever reason he hasn't made and begin to see a certain pattern.
Even if early on in the process, we are learning just what the Kraken have an don't have in a GM.
RainyCityHockey
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Soul Rebel
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RainyCityHockey
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