Prospect Info: 2021 Draft Thread

[Tkachuk Norris]

I agree there is no Matthews. Although a player like Guenther never really got a chance to show what he could do over a full season.

There are like 8-9 really good prospects out there. Clarke, Johnson, Beniers, Guenther, Power, Eklund, Hughes. I’m sure there are a few more. I know Lambos was super highly regarded coming into this year but he’s got a serious health issue.

 

[DFF]

That was 9 drafts ago...
From 2015 on we are on a streak of 6 drafts without a legitimate bad pick. The closest arguments are guys in like the 3rd or 4th round but you can’t blame anyone for not hitting on those picks

That is as misleading as saying we have 1 player that made it since 2017

 

[Yepthatsme]

That is as misleading as saying we have 1 player that made it since 2017

It’s really not misleading, you pointed out because of a bad pick you have no faith in our scouts. I pointed out that we haven’t made a bad pick since 8 years ago. You’re right that yours was misleading though, you chose a small sample size where in 2017 and 2018, we had a total of two picks in the first four rounds. 2019 and 2020 are too soon to tell but we have plenty of promising players in Pelletier, Wolf, Zary, Francis, and Poirer; that’s just the names of the players currently leading their teams currently.

Our scouting department has actually been very impressive, what leaves little to be desired is how trigger happy we have been trading their ammunition away in picks for teams that for the most part didn’t have high aspirations.

 

[Volica]

I agree there is no Matthews. Although a player like Guenther never really got a chance to show what he could do over a full season.

There are like 8-9 really good prospects out there. Clarke, Johnson, Beniers, Guenther, Power, Eklund, Hughes. I’m sure there are a few more. I know Lambos was super highly regarded coming into this year but he’s got a serious health issue.

Outside of 2012, you take any of the drafts from the past 10 years and there are foundational players generally 4-7 of the top 8 picks.

This draft is weak, they said that about 2014... no consensus #1. but who wouldn’t take a Reinhart, Ekblad, Drasaitl, Enlers or Nylander on this team?

If Flames were remotely competent, the move here is to tank. Try to land a top 2 pick, and try a retool if you can land an Eichel type or a legit top 2C. The real IQ200 move is to position a tank in 2022-23.

 

[Fig]

That is as misleading as saying we have 1 player that made it since 2017

You know the reason we reached was Weisbrod had a hard on thinking he found the next Joe Nieuwendyk, right?

You know Weisbrod was fired and is in Vancouver now, right?

 

[JPeeper]

Outside of 2012, you take any of the drafts from the past 10 years and there are foundational players generally 4-7 of the top 8 picks.

This draft is weak, they said that about 2014... no consensus #1. but who wouldn’t take a Reinhart, Ekblad, Drasaitl, Enlers or Nylander on this team?

If Flames were remotely competent, the move here is to tank. Try to land a top 2 pick, and try a retool if you can land an Eichel type or a legit top 2C. The real IQ200 move is to position a tank in 2022-23.

This. You've gone through countless coaches now, have won 1 playoff round in a decade, the core is rotten time to move on. Gio is done and the rest of the D is young sans Tanev who probably gets taken by Seattle so by the time they really hit their prime, Bedard and Wright are Flames (lol, f***ing lmao).

Zary and Pelletier could and should be another Mangiapane/Dube combo, so two good middle 6 forwards. Just need those superstars, ie. tank the f*** out of '22 and '23.

 

[DFF]

You know the reason we reached was Weisbrod had a hard on thinking he found the next Joe Nieuwendyk, right?

You know Weisbrod was fired and is in Vancouver now, right?

You kinda prove my point for me thanks

If weisbrod listened to Button, he is useless.
If he overrided him, he is also useless

anyway show me one of their picks that was not around where the hockey news or other publications ranking that has worked out great.

btw, Jankowski was not the only one. Remember they reached for that guy instead of Demko? How did that work out?

Button has improved somewhat from his horrendous start but he is still getting way too much credit ....the whole organization failed spectacularly including him

 

[CraigsList]

This draft isn’t as bad as people make it out to be. And, assuming we’re a top 10 pick, that’s an easy pick to make, even with the limited scouting.

We have holes in all parts of our roster, I wouldn’t mind picking a franchise D player. Hanifin, Valimaki, and Andersson don’t scream franchise D to me (I hope one can prove me wrong). Gio is getting older, time to find his replacement for the next decade or so.

I’d like to grab a franchise D in this draft, LD or RD (since Valimaki can play both sides). Tanev should be off the roster by the time that top notch D prospect is starting to make a difference. We can worry about drafting top end forwards in the ‘22 and ‘23 drafts, where they’re projected to have deep drafts (especially ‘23).

 

[User1996]

Yeah there’s a handful of D, couple good C’s, and even a goalie top 10 this draft. Even though they don’t come with the hype of lots of years, you’re still looking to add very high end prospect at key positions. Nothing to complain about there.

 

[TheHudlinator]

I'm still hoping for Hughes, this draft is top heavy with defenseman the perfect time to grab a guy that help replace Gio going forward.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

This draft isn’t as bad as people make it out to be. And, assuming we’re a top 10 pick, that’s an easy pick to make, even with the limited scouting.

We have holes in all parts of our roster, I wouldn’t mind picking a franchise D player. Hanifin, Valimaki, and Andersson don’t scream franchise D to me (I hope one can prove me wrong). Gio is getting older, time to find his replacement for the next decade or so.

I’d like to grab a franchise D in this draft, LD or RD (since Valimaki can play both sides). Tanev should be off the roster by the time that top notch D prospect is starting to make a difference. We can worry about drafting top end forwards in the ‘22 and ‘23 drafts, where they’re projected to have deep drafts (especially ‘23).

The Flames should do everything they can to pick twice at least in the top 10-15. We need a good C and Dman prospect.

 

[Fig]

You kinda prove my point for me thanks

If weisbrod listened to Button, he is useless.
If he overrided him, he is also useless

anyway show me one of their picks that was not around where the hockey news or other publications ranking that has worked out great.

btw, Jankowski was not the only one. Remember they reached for that guy instead of Demko? How did that work out?

Button has improved somewhat from his horrendous start but he is still getting way too much credit ....the whole organization failed spectacularly including him

Weisbrod was in Feaster's ear and they override Button. Weisbrod was always well known for being a blowhard and trying to be the smartest guy in the room. They knew Janko wasn't really well ranked, but worried someone might take him in the 2nd. Both Feaster and he are gone. Why does that reflect on Button and the group that were around then and are still around now?

Demko was at high risk of busting due to injuries and surgery. It was basically the same surgeries that make Gilles bust. It was mentioned/hinted that management didn't want to take that risk, so they went with MacDonald. I didn't like this pick from the get go either. But that was mainly me hating righty catchers. I agree that the scouting group suckssssssssssssssss at drafting goalies let alone developing them, but with Sigalet helping with goalie drafting now, I'm a lot less inclined to hate the picks now and Demko unfortunately has pretty legit reasons why they passed on him. If the Flames had drafted him though, with our goalie dev system, we'd be talking more about how Demko is Gilles 2.0, not a 5x5 young top tier goalie.

Everything I've seen of Button and his crew is that he's really damn good at finding talent and IMO all the later round successes are evidence of this. But depending on the GM up to Burke (yes, I always believe he was the GM who ran the draft in Treliving's first season as the MO is totally different to all subsequent drafts) the amount of override or demand on stupid characteristics combos by the GM meant whether or not we had great drafts or horrific busts up to the 3rd round. Treliving has his issues, but giving the scouting staff far more voice and input in the top rounds of the draft after 2014 isn't one of them.

 

[Fig]

The Flames should do everything they can to pick twice at least in the top 10-15. We need a good C and Dman prospect.

The Flames always do the best with 6. Mony at 6th OA was one of the better options for that draft. We can bemoan what he is now, but he had a heck of a lead for a while for points. It's not totally his fault that his development wasn't the best and injuries rekt him.

Tkachuk at 6.

Fleury, Mango and Phillips in 6th round.

We need more sixy picks!

 

[Dack]

We now are solely 6th last in the league. With the way things are going the Devils might pass us. Hopefully they move out enough pieces so we don't win like 6 of our last 10 and play our way out of the high lotto.

 

[DFF]

Weisbrod was in Feaster's ear and they override Button. Weisbrod was always well known for being a blowhard and trying to be the smartest guy in the room. They knew Janko wasn't really well ranked, but worried someone might take him in the 2nd. Both Feaster and he are gone. Why does that reflect on Button and the group that were around then and are still around now?

Demko was at high risk of busting due to injuries and surgery. It was basically the same surgeries that make Gilles bust. It was mentioned/hinted that management didn't want to take that risk, so they went with MacDonald. I didn't like this pick from the get go either. But that was mainly me hating righty catchers. I agree that the scouting group suckssssssssssssssss at drafting goalies let alone developing them, but with Sigalet helping with goalie drafting now, I'm a lot less inclined to hate the picks now and Demko unfortunately has pretty legit reasons why they passed on him. If the Flames had drafted him though, with our goalie dev system, we'd be talking more about how Demko is Gilles 2.0, not a 5x5 young top tier goalie.

Everything I've seen of Button and his crew is that he's really damn good at finding talent and IMO all the later round successes are evidence of this. But depending on the GM up to Burke (yes, I always believe he was the GM who ran the draft in Treliving's first season as the MO is totally different to all subsequent drafts) the amount of override or demand on stupid characteristics combos by the GM meant whether or not we had great drafts or horrific busts up to the 3rd round. Treliving has his issues, but giving the scouting staff far more voice and input in the top rounds of the draft after 2014 isn't one of them.

I understand what you are saying but I don’t agree. Tod Button has improved from horrendous to average in the 25 yrs as a Flames scout not this great scout that the flames fans are claiming.

The Flames were a miserable bottom team for years went through a rebuild and the best they got to was middle of the pact and one playoff round win. It’s not all scouting but they are part of the problem.

Bennett, Monahan, Tkachuk were more or less default picks. You can’t really blame them or give them credit. Anyone with a copy of the hockey news or McKeen could make the same picks. Their best picks Andersson and dube are middle of the pack players that were also picked where they were projected. I guess you could give him some credit for Johnny and Adam Fox

 

[Fig]

I understand what you are saying but I don’t agree. Tod Button has improved from horrendous to average in the 25 yrs as a Flames scout not this great scout that the flames fans are claiming.

The Flames were a miserable bottom team for years went through a rebuild and the best they got to was middle of the pact and one playoff round win. It’s not all scouting but they are part of the problem.

Bennett, Monahan, Tkachuk were more or less default picks. You can’t really blame them or give them credit. Anyone with a copy of the hockey news or McKeen could make the same picks. Their best picks Andersson and dube are middle of the pack players that were also picked where they were projected. I guess you could give him some credit for Johnny and Adam Fox

He picked up quite a few NHL games with late round gems in guys like Kulak, Brodie, Ferland, Mangiapane, Bouma etc.

The average increasing might also be that when Sutter was first GM, there was like 2-3 dudes as total scouts, double that by the end of Sutter's tenure, nearly a dozen by the end of Feaster's tenure and now we're at like 16-17. I'm not saying Button is god mode. I'm saying he's IMO above average and not a significant reason why drafting sucks. It's the fact he was overridden that we had problems with drafting in the early rounds.

Even the guys in the early rounds, there was a resounding "Who?" from our fan base when guys like Valimaki and Andersson were taken over Liljegren and Kylington. My point from the get go was the thinly veiled mention of concerns of Button contributing to the issue. I am merely making the point that the major gaffes that were being used as examples had nothing to do with him and everything to do with an override by someone higher up than he.

 

[crackdown44]

You kinda prove my point for me thanks

If weisbrod listened to Button, he is useless.
If he overrided him, he is also useless

anyway show me one of their picks that was not around where the hockey news or other publications ranking that has worked out great.

btw, Jankowski was not the only one. Remember they reached for that guy instead of Demko? How did that work out?

Button has improved somewhat from his horrendous start but he is still getting way too much credit ....the whole organization failed spectacularly including him

I think Demko is more a product of Vancouver’s goaltending development. At some point you have to give credit to their staff. They churn out top end goalies non stop

I feel like criticism toward prospects is usually unilaterally directed at the scouting staff when often times developmental staff gets off without criticism

 

[DFF]

He picked up quite a few NHL games with late round gems in guys like Kulak, Brodie, Ferland, Mangiapane, Bouma etc.

The average increasing might also be that when Sutter was first GM, there was like 2-3 dudes as total scouts, double that by the end of Sutter's tenure, nearly a dozen by the end of Feaster's tenure and now we're at like 16-17. I'm not saying Button is god mode. I'm saying he's IMO above average and not a significant reason why drafting sucks. It's the fact he was overridden that we had problems with drafting in the early rounds.

Even the guys in the early rounds, there was a resounding "Who?" from our fan base when guys like Valimaki and Andersson were taken over Liljegren and Kylington. My point from the get go was the thinly veiled mention of concerns of Button contributing to the issue. I am merely making the point that the major gaffes that were being used as examples had nothing to do with him and everything to do with an override by someone higher up than he.

You do realize that if you throw darts for 25 yrs, you are going to hit some random targets too, right? That’s an underwhelming list for the length of time.

as I said they have improved but I am not going to lose sleep if the new GM brings in his scouting staff

 

[DFF]

I think Demko is more a product of Vancouver’s goaltending development. At some point you have to give credit to their staff. They churn out top end goalies non stop

I feel like criticism toward prospects is usually unilaterally directed at the scouting staff when often times developmental staff gets off without criticism

agreed...developing players is a problem even at the NHL level. That’s why sam Bennett had a career year at 18, Monahan at 23 and not sure if Tkachuk is still developing the way he is going

 

[Volica]

Tank tank tank.
Top 2 pick. Could use it as Eichel bait at the bare minimum if this team isn’t going to tank next season.

 

[MakeCgyGreatAgain]

My thoughts exactly. I simply can’t get behind drafting someone named Chaz

I work with a Chaz and he’s a complete d-bag and incompetent. So I’m all for avoiding any Chaz.

 

[Bounces R Way]

I don't really care who we pick.

As long as he plays C and his name is Matthew Beniers.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

Come on now....you guys know we'll go on a hot streak soon and end up picking 10-15.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

I like Guenther, Power, Beniers and Clarke most for us.

 

[Potty John]

I’d be happy if we get Beniers or Hughes this year.