2021-22 Utica Comets and ECHL thread - part V
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sabremike
Friend To All Giraffes And Lindy Ruff
In a just and decent world Dineen's next NHL head coaching gig would be as the first coach of the expansion Hartford Whalers.
- Feb 5, 2010
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I'm disappointed that Fitz traded away and lost on waivers guys that were the heart and soul of the Utica team for nothing. Hooray, we got the damn Hamburgler and Geertsen. Totally worth tanking Uticas season....
Tao Jersey Jones
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The book isn't closed on the Hammond/Schnarr trade as Nate has advanced to the next round, well and that he's an RFA and Hammond won't even be considered for Utica now.
- Feb 5, 2010
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The guy definitely energized the team every game I watched. Glad he is moving on. Also glad Studs got some NHL playoff experience. What a waste for us though....
Tao Jersey Jones
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I waited until the last four games of the regular season to get AHLTV (the price I paid was offered with ten games left). Now I can watch the whole season. I'm going to watch the season in reverse and pretend they won something. They did win something. The North Division Championship (and the now unrecognized regular season Eastern Conference Championship, but we're not supposed to talk about that).
Still 13-0 and North Division Champions merch available while it lasts. Esche said new logo in Year Two, so all merch with this inaugural logo may become collectors items. Get 'em before they're gone.
Still 13-0 and North Division Champions merch available while it lasts. Esche said new logo in Year Two, so all merch with this inaugural logo may become collectors items. Get 'em before they're gone.
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Guadana
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That was a good season. I will never forget for buying ahltv. That was a good purchase.
great season from Z, Alexander and Nikita. Hope to see them in regular roster next year. Too bad all god things come to an end.
great season from Z, Alexander and Nikita. Hope to see them in regular roster next year. Too bad all god things come to an end.
That was a rough loss. They definetly were outcoached in the series, but I dont Know that I can blame it all on Dineen. Its the organizational system that is the problem. I watched a few games earlier in the season and they played a little differently, a more defensive style with good transitional pop. Then watching this series, it was like a clone of the big club. Its got to be the worst or at least bottom 3 systems implemented league wide. Its mind boggling to me how silly it is. The brreakout is terrible, with this fly the wingers and reverse constantly crap. it just allows teams to forecheck the hell out of your D. which is exactly what the Amerks did. And the biggest systemic flaw on both clubs, is the insane NZ/blueline defense where we give a 20 ft gap to anyone remotely near the puck so teams can just walk in unmolested and set up shop for days. its just Ludacris. I dont care what players you bring in, if there arent systematic changes in these areas, we will continue to stink.
Anyway on the bright side I think weve got some really good NHL quality players down there In Zetterlund, Bahl, Okhotiuk. Holtz too but he still needs alot of work and his skating is a bit worrisome. Bright future but we need to make some changes.
Anyway on the bright side I think weve got some really good NHL quality players down there In Zetterlund, Bahl, Okhotiuk. Holtz too but he still needs alot of work and his skating is a bit worrisome. Bright future but we need to make some changes.
AfroThunder396
[citation needed]
I think Zetterlund is probably the closest thing to a lock for the opening night lineup, he was awesome in his audition and is exactly the kind of player we need.
It will be a little disappointing if Holtz doesn't make it, he had one of the best teenage AHL seasons ever but there's still some pretty obvious deficiencies in his game. I think he'll be given the inside track but they may still want to start him down in Utica.
I think they really want one of Bahl/Ok to stick. I'm guessing one of them will rotate with Smith as the 6/7 D.
The coaching staff really seems to like Tyce so maybe he has an outside shot to make it, too.
It will be a little disappointing if Holtz doesn't make it, he had one of the best teenage AHL seasons ever but there's still some pretty obvious deficiencies in his game. I think he'll be given the inside track but they may still want to start him down in Utica.
I think they really want one of Bahl/Ok to stick. I'm guessing one of them will rotate with Smith as the 6/7 D.
The coaching staff really seems to like Tyce so maybe he has an outside shot to make it, too.
MakoSlade
Registered User
I think all those guys you mention can make an impact next year, and Foote too. It also presents a problem - do you rely on them to make an impact and (mostly) stay put this off season, or do you trade / sign more proven talent? The only move we have to make is a 1B goalie...the other positions we can fill from within.
I’m a greedy SOB and I want to keep most of our prospects and have them fill in. My main “wants” for this off season is signing/trading for a 1a/1b goalie to battle with Blackwood and try to sign Nichuskin.
To me Zacha has worn out his welcome and if we can move him on draft day for picks or to move back into the first round for someone we want…he can go.
Our 3 rd is of concern for me, so either PK (or similar) can be brought back on a fair deal, Walsh can step in or maybe Balh/Okhotyuk/Muk can play on their off-side.
Honestly if we don't manage to pick up a decent 3RHD, I'm willing to try Smith on the right paired up with a shutdown guy like Ok or Bahl. I mean, he played on the right thru minors, playing on the off-side often increases offense at the cost of defense, and his D is already so bad we wouldn't notice the drop.
He struggled with his on hand. I'm not sure he's going to be better off hand.
Struggled defensively. Offensively he was ok, but not put in a position to succeed (power play).
Honestly, I'm not sure why people were so shocked with his decline this year. He was pretty bad defensively his first year, but that was covered up by his scoring. Once he was taken off the PP, the points dried up and all that was left were the cracks.
That's a very good point. That said his eye test looked different to me this year. Last season his skating didn't look to be as much of a detriment at 5 on 5. He was still a capable puck mover outside the power play last season to my eyes. This season he looked to be nervous and hesitant. Hopefully he figures it out.
Jersey Fan 12
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Scary point. Sabres' organization showed more cohesiveness than Devils.
Seems organizational issues are far bigger than personnel and tactics.
Seems organizational issues are far bigger than personnel and tactics.
They won a 5 game series 3 to 2, and all 3 wins were wins by 1 goal, including 2 overtime winners. People can come up with all sorts of grandiose reasons for this.
AfroThunder396
[citation needed]
IMO you can't rely on any of these guys to be impact players. If they are, great, but we need to be exploring other avenues to improve the team.
Impact players is not necessarily the problem. We already have some pretty good ones between the ages of 20-24 on our NHL roster, with another one playing at Michigan and another one to be named at the draft. I'm more concerned about the collection of spare parts we have in the bottom-6. So to me, the biggest impact one of these Utica guys can have would be forcing Johnsson/McLeod/Kuokkanen out of the lineup.
I don't even think we should be expecting Holtz to be a great top-6 option, probably more of a sheltered 2nd/3rd line guy at ES with premium PP minutes. I would be thrilled if Holtz's stat line next year looked anything like Mercer's this year.
With how much Fitz, Marty, and Ruff have talked about battles and competition, I can't imagine they'll be satisfied with just expecting the kids to fill every hole like they did in 2021.
We should continue adding external talent, and if one of our young guys breaks through and makes someone expendable that's a good problem to have IMO.
Tao Jersey Jones
Registered User
Dineen has lost every AHL dual elimination game he's been head coach by one goal.
I'll give you the empty netter, but technically Rochester won by two goals last night.
Totally agree. I feel like conventional wisdom here is that we have too much depth and not enough high end talent. Without commenting on the high end talent part, Zacha, McLeod, Tatar, Vesey, Johnsson, Kuokkanen, Geertsen, and early Boqvist are not good depth at all. It's terrible depth.
If Boq's turnaround and Zetterlund's start can be sustained, that's a big help, but they really need to get to a point where they're not just waiving the white flag whenever 86, 63, and 13 are not on the ice.
AfroThunder396
[citation needed]
Agree, and I think we need to be careful when throwing around words like "depth" with no context. It's not a question of having the bodies, every team has an endless supply of guys they *could* call up. The problem is quality and redundancy.
There's nothing wrong with having Tomas Tatar. He can be a useful player and bring some positives to your team. The problem is having four Tomas Tatars. We need to get rid of the excess and bring in guys with different skill sets. IMO this is what really gives guys like Zetterlund and Foote opportunities to make an impact, not necessarily by being a super amazing player by simply bringing a new element to a pretty one-dimensional offense.
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I would also prefer to see both Bahl and Ohk playing in Newark next year to another season of Smith. I am over Smith. He’s a liability with nothing compensating. Not only hesitant but weak on the puck one on one, getting caved, a deer in the headlights look, a weak shot and he can’t get it through to the net either; no size, no reach, no agility and no particular smarts either.
My thoughts on your list. If I had the checkbook.
NHL UFA:
- Greer is an absolute no brainer and give this guy a raise. At times he was the only Comet going. The 4-3 win in which he scored all 4 goals in mid-February when it was becoming obvious that the team was spiraling downward is the most glaring example. Leading the team in scoring during the playoffs is another just as bright. He is the leader the kids need to follow.
AJ finished the season tied for 2nd in scoring with Zetterlund at 52Pts.
- Deleo was far more effective on the wing than at center. He was forced into the role by the weeakness the Comets suffered at center since June when I, along with others on this site, was pointing out as the players being brought in reflected. Center depth was never acquired and as the season progressed it became more and more obvious. I thought we would see something at the TDL. Nope. How about the papered down center like Peterka. That would be Mercer. Nope. Schnarr traded. Gauthier out for the entire Rochester series and the Comets couldn't win a draw or be set up by a center after the Deleo line. 16 goals and 10 were associated with that line - Greer/Deleo/Zetterlund.
He did end up as the Comets leading scorer with 56 points, 35 of which came on assists which also led the team.
- Gauthier as a 3rd line defensive center vs a team's top line, 1st unit penalty killer and key face off man was extremely valuable to the Comets. There was not another center on the roster who could do any of this, period! In addition to all that he chipped in 32Pts in his 51GP after being sent back to Utica on 11/8 after playing 8 games in and out of the Devils lineup.
- Flynn could be done without. He was an okay bottom 6 forward, much better on the wing than at center, but there are better players out there than him. As an example, the Devils had Jankowsi in camp on a PTO and could have signed and sent him to Utica. They released him and Buffalo signed him. He split time with the Sabres and Rochester. He put up points with the Amerks at nearly a PPG pace (32GP/10G/17A/27 Pts). He also scored 4 goals for the Amerks vs the Comets in the playoffs. Contrast that with Flynn's 26 Pts in 61GP for the season and 1 goal in the Playoffs. I'd seek a better replacement. There are a lot more productive AHL/NHL journeymen to be had for the $280K they paid him. Compare that to the $175K they paid Gauthier and you see much better bang for your buck.
- White scored 3 goals for the Comets in the 6 games he played here. That number was the the total scored over the course of an entire season by each of the following: Vukojevic, Russo, Wotherspoon, Bahl, and Okhotiuk. Only Walsh scored more with 9.
Russo, who is already under contract for next season, broke out with 2G and 3A in his 4GP in the playoffs (suspended for game 4). No other D-man scored a goal in the playoffs.
It never hurts to have a D-man who can put up points a la Walsh as the team's 5th leading scorer.
Colton with only 231 GP between the AHL and NHL would not be considered a veteran by AHL rules and that would make him an excellent acquisition for the Comets. I have a feeling the Devils will not consider him in their D mix for next season, but he would be a guy available for an emergency call-up.
If I were the man making the decisions, I'd be locking these guys up as soon as possible.
Greer, Deleo, Gauthier 3 of the 5 veterans the Comets can play in a single game.
White is a Veteran Defenseman who has yet to play enough games to be considered a veteran under AHL rules.
NHL RFA:
- Thompson will be offered a QO and most likely be a Comet on opening night. man has this kid earned a good paycheck doing almost nothing. 36 Pro GP and already an RFA.
- Zetterlund will also be offered a QO and based upon his development is the forward most likely to move up from the AHL to the NHL. He is waiver eligible and would be a big risk to get claimed if waived.
AHL UFA -
Irvine
Grasso
McGrath
There are much better AHL UFAs than these 3. I'd let them seek their ceiling elsewhere. If they can do no beter than the ECHL, I might consider giving them an AHL contract and reassigning them to Adirondack but only as Desperation Emergency needs, not as the actual team depth.
- Schmelzer was the team captain and according to all involved a good one. He can play the wing and would not have to be a center. Talvitie is already signed. Gauthier would be #3. That's the 3/4 centers. Schmelzer should not be above those 2 and play wing until needed due to injury. If they can see a way to bring back their captain and keep him out of the top 3, but use him on the wing, I do it.
Masonius I wish the best.
Wotherspoon was the Comets leader in +/- at +26. He would be valuable to help kids. The question is who will the "kids" be.
Certainly not Russo or White.
My guess is Walsh will be back and a key on the right side. For the first half of this season he was under Wotherspoon's wing.
Later on his partner switched up a lot;
Ok became a frequent partner
Vuk began to be seen there withsome frequency
Bahl also came into play
From this I think they are no longer seeking to shelter him
Ok and Bahl will be in line to find their way to NJ. That has a lot to do with what Fitz does to deal with Suuban's RD this off and what they decide to do with Smith on the left side.
The consensus among those who don't count, HF posters, is correct the devils have to find a 3rd veteran RD.
If per chance Subban signs for another season on a NJ discount or they acquire the vet RD, that ends a lot of speculation. We know Hamilton and Severson on the right and Siegenthaler and Graves on the left are pretty much locks. Subbie or the newbie would make the top 3 on the right.
If they GIVE Smith a rope to either hang himself or tie himself to the the top 6 and he succeeds they only thing they require is a depth 7 or 7&8 based upon their decision on how many F/D they keep.
Utica looks to have Walsh, Russo, Vukojevic, Groleau.
The decision of what to do with Bahl, Okhotyuk, and White determines what they do with Wotherspoon. Of course what they do with the guys up front also figures into to the availability of veteran spots on the roster which Tyler would require.
The desperate need foir a quality full-time AHL level 1st line center would use up a Vet slot. That guy is more important than a Vet D-man if Russo and White and Walsh can fill that slot. Somebody currently in the line applying to end up in NJ will likely be in Utica - Ty Smith, Kevin Bahl, Nikita Okhotyuk.
Gambardella, already signed for next season, becomes a VE this coming season. His 15 games played with Edmonton in 2018-19 pushes him into the VE status by 2 games.
Mitens I'm sure will be back as #3 unless hey have something different in mind with deals and free agent signings. Also have to realize that Mitens is a free agent and could possibly get a better offer.
All of the free agents can opt for greener pastures an d that green is $$$.
So considering players I have suggested the Comets need for next season this is how they stack up considering Veteran/Veteran Exempt status for next season.
Greer - Vet
Deleo - Vet
Gauthier - Vet
Wotherspoon - Vet
Russo - Vet already under contract
Gambardella - Veteran Exempt already under contract.
That's 5 Vets and 1 Vet Exempt. It's the maximum number allowed on a game night roster. That looks okay except it's missing that crucial #1 center.
They can add the center that has accrued Veteran status and dump one of the Vets listed above. Based on team need Wotherspoon would be the odd man out.
OR
They add the center and keep 1 vet out of the lineup on a game by game decision. If it were to end up Wotherespoon again, based upon the daily roster the Comets had a vet missing for a game very frequently. You go with the odds.
OR you find a center with the necessary talent that has not accrued the 321+ games between the NHL, AHL, and European top level leagues e.g. KHL, SHL, Liiga.
The 3rd would be a real huge find and i don't like your chances, but it's possible. he best way it can happen is to find a kid thaty another team hasn't got room for that is still looking for at least a 2-way to prove he is still NHL material. The better find would be a European player who has less than the 321+ but was never drafted, never ventured to NA, but has blossomed into a very successful player in his homeland whose numbers could be very good in the AHL.
Thanks for sharing that breakdown. From your description I can’t help but thinking that if Utica had a healthy Gauthier in this series they win - even with all the other faults and shortcomings. His game is exactly what a young team needs in the playoffs and he would have really shored up the center position. Hopefully someone in NJ will listen to the Utica brass and give the team a good AHL foundation to add to the prospects. As an aside I’m skeptical they do it but Smith really should start next season as Utica’s top lefty defender to rebuild his game. It’s been a great reading your in gane reports and I’m sure all the NJ faithful appreciate it. The Utica fan base is something special and I hope the parent club takes care of your group.
NJDevs26
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