Speculation: 2021-22 Sharks Roster Discussion part IX

[tiburon12]

More like don't be surprised if it doesn't happen at all. It would be idiotic for a GM to acquire Kane's contract at this point, even with 50% salary retention, when everyone knows the Sharks will be forced to buy him out in the offseason if a trade can't be consummated. Even setting all the off ice stuff aside Kane is 30 years old and could easily be useless on the ice for the final 2 years of the contract. There's much less risk on every level to bid for him on a one year deal.

I'm not sure why you are so dismissive of the concept of adding a 30 goal scorer for basically free at the deadline. Kane could push a team over the top. I'm not saying this would be a fit, but imagine if EDM added Kane and ran McDavid, Draisaitl, and Nuge/Kane on different lines? Or Colorado, or Carolina. I understand your logic but you're being far too dismissive of a very reasonable outcome. Teams want to win, at all costs

 

[Hodge]

I'm not sure why you are so dismissive of the concept of adding a 30 goal scorer for basically free at the deadline. Kane could push a team over the top. I'm not saying this would be a fit, but imagine if EDM added Kane and ran McDavid, Draisaitl, and Nuge/Kane on different lines? Or Colorado, or Carolina. I understand your logic but you're being far too dismissive of a very reasonable outcome. Teams want to win, at all costs

Okay let's imagine Edmonton traded for Kane. They currently have $5.3M in cap space for next season and will need to re-sign Puljujarvi and Yamamoto along with a goalie. With Kane in the fold at 50% that's now down to $1.8M which means they can say goodbye to 23 year old 3rd overall pick Puljujarvi. This is assuming Kane would even waive his NTC for Edmonton as well. I can't see this ending in anything other than a buyout. The length of Kane's contract is prohibitive at anything other than 75% retention and it would easily cost a 1st round pick to entice a team to retain 25% for four years.

 

[tiburon12]

Okay let's imagine Edmonton traded for Kane. They currently have $5.3M in cap space for next season and will need to re-sign Puljujarvi and Yamamoto along with a goalie. With Kane in the fold at 50% that's now down to $1.8M which means they can say goodbye to 23 year old 3rd overall pick Puljujarvi. This is assuming Kane would even waive his NTC for Edmonton as well. I can't see this ending in anything other than a buyout. The length of Kane's contract is prohibitive at anything other than 75% retention and it would easily cost a 1st round pick to entice a team to retain 25% for four years.

dude, i literally said

I'm not saying this would be a fit, but imagine if EDM added Kane and ran McDavid, Draisaitl, and Nuge/Kane on different lines?

you're not wrong again, but there are 30 other teams to consider here and ~30 more games until the TDL

 

[Pinkfloyd]

More like don't be surprised if it doesn't happen at all. It would be idiotic for a GM to acquire Kane's contract at this point, even with 50% salary retention, when everyone knows the Sharks will be forced to buy him out in the offseason if a trade can't be consummated. Even setting all the off ice stuff aside Kane is 30 years old and could easily be useless on the ice for the final 2 years of the contract. There's much less risk on every level to bid for him on a one year deal.

Both options are viable.

 

[Jargon]

While I agree that he’s still fairly hard to trade I really don’t think Kane is exercising his NTC unless he’s being traded to like Arizona. The last two years have shown that the world is a weird unstable place and somehow I can’t imagine a star NHLer being okay playing out his entire year in the AHL, even if it maaaaybe helps him in the future. If Kane gets the opportunity to play in the NHL this year with a team that’s good (and let’s face it, the only teams I imagine that will be interested are contenders who want to get a very cheap top liner to push them over the edge) I 100% think he’s going to take it.

 

[Sysreq]

I've argued the TDL angle before and in truth, I think it has merit. That said, when Kane was on the market a the TDL a few seasons back, all reports indicated that San Jose was the only serious offer. I don't think any of the traditional big market teams are going to bite. Hockey is still a pretty conservative sport.

Time will tell, but every day this drags on, I think the worse the probability looks.

 

[WTFetus]

If Kane blocks potential trades with his NTC with the goal of being bought out, the pettiness in me would rather just keep him buried in the AHL for the final three years. ~6mil in dead cap for three years is just negligibly worse than the 3.6/2.6/4.6/1.6/1.6/1.6 of dead cap for six years, especially with how the team is currently constructed.

Can the Sharks bury him in the AHL but not allow him to play/practice, or would the NHLPA throw a fit? Only concern would be Kane being a locker room cancer if he stays in the AHL instead of being bought out.

 

[Lebanezer]

If Kane blocks potential trades with his NTC with the goal of being bought out, the pettiness in me would rather just keep him buried in the AHL for the final three years. ~6mil in dead cap for three years is just negligibly worse than the 3.6/2.6/4.6/1.6/1.6/1.6 of dead cap for six years, especially with how the team is currently constructed.

Can the Sharks bury him in the AHL but not allow him to play/practice, or would the NHLPA throw a fit? Only concern would be Kane being a locker room cancer if he stays in the AHL instead of being bought out.

The Sharks have the right to keep him in the AHL, not trade him and just pay him. Obviously they don't want to waste money on him, but that might be more palatable than buying him out and letting him go wherever he wants while getting nothing in return. If they bury him in the minors and he acts out, it makes it that much easier to just suspend him and keep him away from the team. If Kane wants his career to continue it's absolutely in his best interests to be accommodating to the Sharks and do whatever he can to prove to other teams that he can be a team player etc. Kane isn't in a position to try and force what he wants out of this situation. Beggars can't be choosers. Of course given his track record I doubt he realizes this and will just continue to do whatever he wants.

 

[timorous me]

Re: Kane, I don't think any team that might trade for him has gotten desperate enough to do so. But there's a lot of time for that to happen yet.

Re: Eklund, I don't think the Sharks wanted to send him to the Barracuda because if he went down and did well but they didn't call him up (because the whole point is to not burn a year of his ELC) it would be a bad look and potentially cause issues with him and his agent. So instead, off to Sweden!

 

[hohosaregood]

 

[tealzamboni]

I wonder if the missing linesman against Vancouver is related.

 

[Levie]

Ok lets just call it a season, anyone in playoff position makes it into the bubble. Every team outside gets an equal shot at 1st overall.

 

[WTFetus]

Ok lets just call it a season, anyone in playoff position makes it into the bubble. Every team outside gets an equal shot at 1st overall.

Just use the same order as last year’s draft. It’s only fair.

 

[stator]

I'm not sure why you are so dismissive of the concept of adding a 30 goal scorer for basically free at the deadline. Kane could push a team over the top. I'm not saying this would be a fit, but imagine if EDM added Kane and ran McDavid, Draisaitl, and Nuge/Kane on different lines? Or Colorado, or Carolina. I understand your logic but you're being far too dismissive of a very reasonable outcome. Teams want to win, at all costs

I kinda am because the receiving team is going to want the full discount of 75% and not give up anything. That puts the onerous on the Sharks to sweeten the deal for the middle-making team.

There's also on-ice issues such as leading the league in PIMs twice in a row, and more importantly, Kane comes with a bullseye painted on his back for attacking a ref.

If a team doesn't get a sweetened deal, meaning the Sharks contribute all the sweetener, they'll be more inclined to just wait until after the buyout, imo.

 

[one2gamble]

I kinda am because the receiving team is going to want the full discount of 75% and not give up anything. That puts the onerous on the Sharks to sweeten the deal for the middle-making team.

There's also on-ice issues such as leading the league in PIMs twice in a row, and more importantly, Kane comes with a bullseye painted on his back for attacking a ref.

If a team doesn't get a sweetened deal, meaning the Sharks contribute all the sweetener, they'll be more inclined to just wait until after the buyout, imo.

I don't think they buy him out at all. Someone will bite with some retention. Kane is to good for them not to take a swing. Just look around and see who has came up a bit short over the last few years Sharks just need to be patient

 

[Nolan11]

I kinda am because the receiving team is going to want the full discount of 75% and not give up anything. That puts the onerous on the Sharks to sweeten the deal for the middle-making team.

There's also on-ice issues such as leading the league in PIMs twice in a row, and more importantly, Kane comes with a bullseye painted on his back for attacking a ref.

If a team doesn't get a sweetened deal, meaning the Sharks contribute all the sweetener, they'll be more inclined to just wait until after the buyout, imo.

Teams in a win now mode wont want to wait, especially if they could lock him up for a well under post-buyout market (say @ 2.5M). Plenty of scenarios where a 3rd team picks up as much as 2.5M in cap hit for, as you inferred, something sweet. One idea floating in my head revolves around AZ, because they only have six players signed next season, with 50M in cap space. They may want semi-decent wingers to help them reach the cap floor:

Toronto Pays: Ritchie + 2nd and receives Kane @ 2.5 M/year (same salary as Ritchie, so completely salary neutral for them).
San Jose pays: LaBanc (assuming he heals before the TDL) + Kane (2M retained) while receiving Toronto 2nd + Roussel
Arizona pays Roussel + retains 2.5 M on Kane while receiving Labanc + Ritchie

Upgrading Ritchie to Kane at the same cap hit is likely worth the 2nd to Toronto. Spending + 2.5 M in cap for 3 years (which helps them reach the floor) while picking up two decent and still young wingers may be worth it to Az. Roussel is a pending UFA so it is just pure money savings to offload him in this. They could even offload ritche next season, and labanc the following for more picks.

For us, picking up a 2nd for LaBanc and offloading Kane with only 2 M in retention would be a cap correcting homerun.

 

[Nolan11]

Another similar scenario for Boston with AZ:

Boston gets Kane @ 2.5 M for Debrusk + Haula
Arizona gets DeBrusk + Haula for Roussel and retaining 2.5M on Kane
San Jose gets expiring contract Roussel for Kane and 2M in retention.

 

[Cas]

Abandon all hope, ye who enter here:

Meier - Couture - Barabanov
Gregor - Bonino - Nieto
Cogliano - Pederson - Halbgewachs
Gadjovich - Merkley - Viel

Ferraro - Burns
Middleton - Karlsson
Vlasic - Simek

Reimer
Sawchenko

 

[tealzamboni]

Abandon all hope, ye who enter here:

Meier - Couture - Barabanov
Gregor - Bonino - Nieto
Cogliano - Pederson - Halbgewachs
Gadjovich - Merkley - Viel

Ferraro - Burns
Middleton - Karlsson
Vlasic - Simek

Reimer
Sawchenko

I want to see how much winning spirit those 2nd & 3rd lines can bring.

 

[Jargon]

Abandon all hope, ye who enter here:

Meier - Couture - Barabanov
Gregor - Bonino - Nieto
Cogliano - Pederson - Halbgewachs
Gadjovich - Merkley - Viel

Ferraro - Burns
Middleton - Karlsson
Vlasic - Simek

Reimer
Sawchenko

A 1st line, a defensive 3rd and 2 4th lines. Cool cool cool

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

The team needs a rebuild. No way we’re competing with Vegas, especially once Eichel is healthy, for a couple of years minimum.

Start shopping Hertl and move him if a good offer comes along.

Same with Barabanov and Reimer.

Cant see Hertl staying with him wanting to be on a winning team.

If Hertl is gone, no point in keeping Barabanov or Reimer.

Embrace the tank as early as possible to get a better draft pick this year. A top 5 pick this year and another high pick and chance at winning Bedard or Michkov next year set up a great core for a fast rebuild.

 

[tiburon12]

The team needs a rebuild. No way we’re competing with Vegas, especially once Eichel is healthy, for a couple of years minimum.

I can't tell (because i'm not a cap expert), but i think this year is make or break for vegas. Somehow they have to shed 10m in salary to fit eichel this year, and if i'm reading cap friendly correctly, they have 16 roster players for next year and 78mil in cap allocated.

How they organize things this year and next year will be extremely interesting, and if I'm a GM in the league, i'm doing them 0 favors by giving them anything close to fair value for any player. Knowing what a machine they will be with a full roster this year, why would anyone help them shed salary at the deadline?

 

[Shark Finn]

--

Embrace the tank as early as possible to get a better draft pick this year. A top 5 pick this year and another high pick and chance at winning Bedard or Michkov next year set up a great core for a fast rebuild.

We are a couple of albatross contracts late on that already..

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

We are a couple of albatross contracts late on that already..

No point of trying to squeak into a wildcard spot this year to get throttled if they do make it.

attendance is already non-existent this year, so instead of half ass “competing”, DW just need to accept it and at least work on draft position this year.

There is no worse spot to be than have an aging core and fighting for a wildcard spot. They’re not going to anything and aren’t going to have a shot at the lottery. Stuck out in no man’s land.

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

"Hey boys, we're gonna suck on purpose...I know its gonna be brutal and you're gonna have to get used to losing...I promise it'll pay off once we draft some better players".