Line Combos: 2021/22 Roster Discussion Thread

[majormajor]

And more than Nyquist -- Jenner -- Bjorkstrand in three last games. Btw Bjork's goal was EN. And it's very good to say about play in the start of the season.

I'm not sure what you're saying. That trio has a 60% xG over their four games together, and Bjorkstrand has been looking like an all-around star player. He was creating chances left and right last game.

 

[tchigo]

The question, can Tex played with players player with better hockey IQ or with players like Robinson and Kuraly? I think he`s excelent like dynamo in lines.

You're always talking hockey IQ with Tex. Given the chances he creates and his PK play, I do not understand how you can see him as a low IQ player. Maybe lower than Jake, but not worse than Laine, which I like but does not resemble the player you describe (he's for sure a better offensive player than Tex, but this season he has shown defensively that he's very good at getting back the puck after having turned it over) . Where I agree with you is about his positioning in the OZ when he does not have the puck.

I'd like to see him in PP, and on SO too!

 

[tchigo]

I don`t say he has low. That`s why I wants to try him with Domi and Bemmer in more games.

oh yes you do. in many posts

 

[Jan]

Tell me, who player is worth his money? Matthews? Marner? Panarin? You're right. Nobody of them. Similar like the most from TOP 20 players according Hockey News etc. And don't forget Panarin wasn't extra in PO. I think their money deserve Barkov, Vasilevsky, Marchand, Aho for example. But we say about market.

Marner defiantly not
Matthews has generally not produce in play off, so I not sure
Nylander is the only that produce constantly in their playoff
Problem in Toronto is how much the pay on the four top forward. Look at what the can afford on their defense.

Panarin, is very good, just not sure I think he is that good.
Vasilevsky yes,

I just Generally think that there are not space to pay that much, and actually I thin Vegas are less good now than in the first season.
Vegas the first season was a compromise.

I would give Laine no more than 5,5 mil and that is where I think his value is.
You are free to disagree

 

[VT]

I'm not sure what you're saying. That trio has a 60% xG over their four games together, and Bjorkstrand has been looking like an all-around star player. He was creating chances left and right last game.

I was just responding to your stats. Besides, you are comparing the beginning of the season, when not all players are in shape, and now, when they`re starting.
The xGoals% statistic can often be misleading. Look at Robinson -- Kuraly -- Texier line at this the last game had in the last game and compare their play.

 

[Jan]

You're always talking hockey IQ with Tex. Given the chances he creates and his PK play, I do not understand how you can see him as a low IQ player. Maybe lower than Jake, but not worse than Laine, which I like but does not resemble the player you describe (he's for sure a better offensive player than Tex, but this season he has shown defensively that he's very good at getting back the puck after having turned it over) . Where I agree with you is about his positioning in the OZ when he does not have the puck.

I'd like to see him in PP, and on SO too!

I think it is more about a fit.
Fact is that immediately Texier was on Kuraly line, it started to work for all three of them.
So it is not really about not being good enough, but a question about a fit.

The problem with Jake Roslovic is in my point of view a total different. Let us just say where Jacob is a playmaker, Roslovic is not.
Sometime it look to me like Roslovic want to just play for and with himself and his passes is seldom good.
Roslovic have to improve his team play.

I agree, that in these last games, you can not say that Texier has played any worse than Laine, even they are not easy to compare.

My problem with Laine, he are not the first boosting into the NHL and scores a lot of goals, then after a few season to dry up.
I or anybody else, can't judge that yet, but I certainly do not want to be the one to invest 7.5 mil in a dried up winger.
Last season he played as a fifth round rocky, on league minimum (which he wasn't). This year he has been much better in everything than scoring. (Well maybe even scoring), Even in many way, it may have been his total best season, but still I do not think it is 7.5 mil good.
In other word, if we shall invest 7.5 mil in Laine, he must prove he can produce in a even higher level.

 

[VT]

Marner defiantly not
Matthews has generally not produce in play off, so I not sure
Nylander is the only that produce constantly in their playoff
Problem in Toronto is how much the pay on the four top forward. Look at what the can afford on their defense.

Panarin, is very good, just not sure I think he is that good.
Vasilevsky yes,

I just Generally think that there are not space to pay that much, and actually I thin Vegas are less good now than in the first season.
Vegas the first season was a compromise.

I would give Laine no more than 5,5 mil and that is where I think his value is.
You are free to disagree

Look, one thing is the market and another real play.
I would give Matthews no more than 8 millions, Marner 6-7 millions. But because of the market the first has $11,640,250, the second $10,903,000. Or do you think Voracek`s price is $8,250,000; Nyquist $5,500,000? Stenlund has $1,050,000 but better Robinson $975,000.
Just open CapFriendly - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps and you will immediately see a lot of terrible contracts.

But the market is the market and there is nothing we can do about it.

I don't wilfully write Bjork, because Jarmo must have got his agent drunk or given him marijuana, otherwise I can't explain his contract.

 

[tchigo]

The problem with Jake Roslovic is in my point of view a total different. Let us just say where Jacob is a playmaker, Roslovic is not.
Sometime it look to me like Roslovic wan

I meant Voracek when I wrote "Maybe lower than Jake". Ros has a low hockey IQ IMO

 

[LJ7]

The more I think about it I really want to see Domi-Jenner-Bjorkstrand tried at some point. Best case scenario Domi really takes that line to a new level offensively. Nyquist-Roslovic-Bemstrom doesn't seem so bad either. I won't lose sleep if Nyquist stays with 38 and 28 though.

 

[VT]

You're always talking hockey IQ with Tex. Given the chances he creates and his PK play, I do not understand how you can see him as a low IQ player. Maybe lower than Jake, but not worse than Laine, which I like but does not resemble the player you describe (he's for sure a better offensive player than Tex, but this season he has shown defensively that he's very good at getting back the puck after having turned it over) . Where I agree with you is about his positioning in the OZ when he does not have the puck.

I'd like to see him in PP, and on SO too!

Not once does Tex seem not to see his teammates.On the contrary, his aggressiveness, his hustle, is evident in line with Robbie and Sean. By the way, Tex is a very good passer. Btw Robbie creates many chances too.
One of Laine's problems, at least in my opinion, is that he was trying to go against the other team even though he didn't have the speed. But his acceleration isn`t ideal. And his long stick is probably not for situations like that either. As for his defensive and positional play, I'm deliberately say the words of Jan and majormajor. Besides, I always write currently (or today, now). I`m not Pythia to see into the future. Unfortunately, only God knows what form he will be in when he returns.

oh yes you do. in many posts

Not high and low are two different things. For example somebody has IQ 110, another IQ 130. Do you think IQ 110 is low? Only because it`s normal nad IQ 130 is almost genial?

 

[majormajor]

The more I think about it I really want to see Domi-Jenner-Bjorkstrand tried at some point. Best case scenario Domi really takes that line to a new level offensively. Nyquist-Roslovic-Bemstrom doesn't seem so bad either. I won't lose sleep if Nyquist stays with 38 and 28 though.

I like the idea but I think Sillinger-Voracek could use Domi's presence even more. Nyquist hasn't been very good but he's no impediment for his linemates, that trio looks really dangerous to me.

 

[Jan]

Look, one thing is the market and another real play.
I would give Matthews no more than 8 millions, Marner 6-7 millions. But because of the market the first has $11,640,250, the second $10,903,000. Or do you think Voracek`s price is $8,250,000; Nyquist $5,500,000? Stenlund has $1,050,000 but better Robinson $975,000.
Just open CapFriendly - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps and you will immediately see a lot of terrible contracts.

But the market is the market and there is nothing we can do about it.

I don't wilfully write Bjork, because Jarmo must have got his agent drunk or given him marijuana, otherwise I can't explain his contract.

Market or not, it other pay over value, well let them burn their fingers.
If you d the same, you burn yours as well.

What made the lightning strong, was team friendly contracts, not because they over pays a lot of players.

If you want to build a wining team, you need a few team friendly contracts.

You do not get that, by start over paying, before you are in a win now mode.
Here I do not mean win now, because you has already really over paid a few players.

 

[VT]

Market or not, it other pay over value, well let them burn their fingers.
If you d the same, you burn yours as well.

What made the lightning strong, was team friendly contracts, not because they over pays a lot of players.

If you want to build a wining team, you need a few team friendly contracts.

You do not get that, by start over paying, before you are in a win now mode.
Here I do not mean win now, because you has already really over paid a few players.

I don't know what taxes are like in Florida, but even if they were like elsewhere, the players would do it. Because Lightings are a quality organization and they've already won SC. We don't have that option (look at Zach's contract). Not even teams like Florida, Colorado, Philadelphia or Rangers (Panarin, Fox, Zibanejad, Trouba).

 

[LJ7]

I like the idea but I think Sillinger-Voracek could use Domi's presence even more. Nyquist hasn't been very good but he's no impediment for his linemates, that trio looks really dangerous to me.

That idea is nice because it doesn't split up any other lines assuming Chinakhov goes back to Cleveland upon Domi's return. Domi would help keep them in the O zone as well. My only (offensive) concern would be finishing with them but since Laine went down it's not like they've had amazing finishing besides some Sillinger goals from the slot.

 

[6zag]

I think Patty is worth a lot more than Boone, but I won't use "ppg" as proof of anything. If he scored a point-per-game with last year's effort he would still be a net drag on the team and worth less than zero.

His puck management looks much improved so far but still a sore spot in his game, we didn't get much quality possession and not many scoring chances with Laine on the ice. I would like to see that fixed before I start talking about paying him elite money.

As far as the cap space goes, it wouldn't kill the team in the short term, just like overpaying any player wouldn't hurt. But the last thing we want to do in our rebuilding year(s) is commit to bad contracts.

Bro, he used the literal word of "currently". Never did I say I even think he's gonna continue like that (obviously we hope so) but the claim that he with CURRENT production isn't worth 3 mil is literally an absurd claim. That is all I was grasping on. Because currently he is ppg, sustainable or not.

 

[majormajor]

Bro, he used the literal word of "currently". Never did I say I even think he's gonna continue like that (obviously we hope so) but the claim that he with CURRENT production isn't worth 3 mil is literally an absurd claim. That is all I was grasping on. Because currently he is ppg, sustainable or not.

I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was just saying I wouldn't use "point per game" type benchmarks to show his worth to the team, whether it is sustainable or not. You can have a guy who consistently produces at a point per game rate who isn't worth $8m per (I'm not sure but J.T. Miller might be a good example of that).

 

[tchigo]

Not once does Tex seem not to see his teammates.On the contrary, his aggressiveness, his hustle, is evident in line with Robbie and Sean. By the way, Tex is a very good passer.

So you say that he passes well, provided that he sees his teammates. I have noticed that he rarely looses the puck in the OZ but often chooses an "easy" solution with a pass to a defender at the blue line. I feel that he dares more, being more confident. Is it Larsen, the line, the group, himself? I hope he maintains his current level throughout the season. And not too many costly turnovers in the DZ

Not high and low are two different things.

What would be your hockey IQ list for CBJ players?
Is 93 up and 96 down?

 

[6zag]

I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was just saying I wouldn't use "point per game" type benchmarks to show his worth to the team, whether it is sustainable or not. You can have a guy who consistently produces at a point per game rate who isn't worth $8m per (I'm not sure but J.T. Miller might be a good example of that).

That's a fair take, I misunderstood you.
Just noticed he switched from 3 mil to 5,5 mil now, so I don't know why I'm even arguing with someone who keeps moving the goal posts. I'm outtie.

 

[MoeBartoli]

I think this is actually the EXACT reason why he should be playing with better players.

Maybe the correct term should be “creative” players and not “better” players.

I think Texier has a very good and underrated hockey IQ, he’s just still a very young player.

I agree Tex is playing well. For now I’d keep him on his current line for 3 reasons:
1). The chemistry is excellent, making the whole greater than the sum of the parts.
2). From a team perspective, it creates the teams most effective line.
3). It’s going so well it can only build his confidence and his current trajectory seems positive.

I’ve enjoyed Tex since joining this trio.

 

[VT]

So you say that he passes well, provided that he sees his teammates. I have noticed that he rarely looses the puck in the OZ but often chooses an "easy" solution with a pass to a defender at the blue line. I feel that he dares more, being more confident. Is it Larsen, the line, the group, himself? I hope he maintains his current level throughout the season. And not too many costly turnovers in the DZ

I thing you`re right. Btw I say it seems to me as if he hasn't seen his partners and not it`s 100% right.

What would be your hockey IQ list for CBJ players?
Is 93 up and 96 down?

I was thinking about hundreds, but thanks to you I can see that I don't have to estimate so accurately.

 

[Finner]

I would like to see more Danforth he is really great player and definitely fits in 3rd line with his speed and skill. Sleepy Roslo is our biggest offensive problem.

 

[majormajor]

I would like to see more Danforth he is really great player and definitely fits in 3rd line with his speed and skill. Sleepy Roslo is our biggest offensive problem.

He hasn't been great but I think at this point it is more of a line thing.

In the last few games Roslovic has been winning a good percentage of his draws and getting play into the offensive end most of the time. There isn't much confidence to score goals but the fundamentals are better.

I don't think we're going to see any kind of scoring explosion without some help. More minutes, better linemates. Not that Hofmann was bad tonight, he was fine, but he isn't going to get Roslovic going. Nine minutes a night isn't going to get him going either. I'd love to see Domi - Roslovic - Bemstrom/Danforth.

 

[VT]

He hasn't been great but I think at this point it is more of a line thing.

In the last few games Roslovic has been winning a good percentage of his draws and getting play into the offensive end most of the time. There isn't much confidence to score goals but the fundamentals are better.

I don't think we're going to see any kind of scoring explosion without some help. More minutes, better linemates. Not that Hofmann was bad tonight, he was fine, but he isn't going to get Roslovic going. Nine minutes a night isn't going to get him going either. I'd love to see Domi - Roslovic - Bemstrom/Danforth.

If I remember correctly, Max doesn't have quite good chemistry with Jack, so I don't know how that line would work. Another pleasant problem would be where to put Laine once he returns. Unless Chinachov improves his game around the boards and without the puck when backchecking, I doubt he would try to bring him back to Cleveland, especially if he's picking up points/goals. I wouldn't be surprised since he finally scored his first goal. But Bemstrom is here too.

 

[Halberdier]

I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was just saying I wouldn't use "point per game" type benchmarks to show his worth to the team, whether it is sustainable or not. You can have a guy who consistently produces at a point per game rate who isn't worth $8m per (I'm not sure but J.T. Miller might be a good example of that).

There are exactly 24 skaters that have been consistently producing PPG or more on last 5 regular seasons and just 10 on last 5 post seasons (using 200 games lower limit for reg., 30 games for playoffs).

J.T. Miller has 0.82 PPG on that time period, which is not really close to "consistent PPG player".

Voracek is 37th, having 0.89 PPG (and earning more than 8M).

Laine is 72nd, 0.76 PPG (7.5M)

[<CENCORED JETS C> 107th, 0.66 PPG (5M AAV, but 6.65M this season so at minimum 7M next)]

Bjorkstrand 134th, 0.62 PPG (5.4M AAV, nice contract!)

I don't think there are many consistent PPG players not earning 8M or at least close to that. Yeah I know, Scheifele signed his contract in a very bad moment just before his real breakout seasons as the 1C on the org that also got a lot of offensive talent during that time to support. He should earn anything between 8-10M.

 

[majormajor]

There are exactly 24 skaters that have been consistently producing PPG or more on last 5 regular seasons and just 10 on last 5 post seasons (using 200 games lower limit for reg., 30 games for playoffs).

J.T. Miller has 0.82 PPG on that time period, which is not really close to "consistent PPG player".

J.T. Miller has consistently been around ppg in three seasons as a Canuck. That to me is consistency. I wouldn't give him $8m per.