GDT: 2021-2022 Trade Deadline frenzy

[The Moops]

For all the flak Sakic receives from some Avs "fans" here, he runs a clean organization and he really does the best he can for the players.

Willy is that you? Love it when people can be labeled as fake fans because they disagree with an opinion you have or complain too much for your taste

 

[niwotsblessing]

Willy is that you? Love it when people can be labeled as fake fans because they disagree with an opinion you have or complain too much for your taste

I have no problem with people complaining, Allah knows I do my share. There are a very few people who do not balance their criticisms, which included hurling invective at Sakic, with an appreciation for positive plays, decisions, and situations. This is what I am referring to, the people that only see the negative, and/or project possible negative consequences in the future, without acknowledging the positive.

Go review the TDL thread from yesterday morning with people convinced Sakic was not going to make another trade, then he lands Lehkonen. Oh, but he overpaid!

 

[The Moops]

I have no problem with people complaining, Allah knows I do my share. There are a very few people who do not balance their criticisms, which included hurling invective at Sakic, with an appreciation for positive plays, decisions, and situations. This is what I am referring to, the people that only see the negative, and/or project possible negative consequences in the future, without acknowledging the positive.

Go review the TDL thread from yesterday morning with people convinced Sakic was not going to make another trade, then he lands Lehkonen. Oh, but he overpaid!

Oh I was here. People are always going to speculate and be pessimistic. Nobody is going to love every trade (but I don't recall seeing anyone complain about Lehkonen). Even then, none of that lessens their fan status.

 

[shadow1]

I commend Calgary for turning things around, especially considering they didn't tank it for multiple years.

But let's be real here: Markstrom is having an insane season, as are several of their forwards. Everything is hitting at the same time, and they've dealt with no injuries.

I don't expect the Flames to win the cup this year (though it could happen - they've clearly captured lightning in a bottle), but I do expect them to be overhyped this off-season, even though they're a obvious regression candidate.

 

[forsbergavs32]

Oh I was here. People are always going to speculate and be pessimistic. Nobody is going to love every trade (but I don't recall seeing anyone complain about Lehkonen). Even then, none of that lessens their fan status.

I doesn’t lessen anyones fan status at all. It’s just tiring when certain posters try to find the worst in every little thing, we could go 16-0 en route to winning the cup and there would be complaints about something. It’s perfectly fine to have complaints because no team is perfect, but it just gets tiresome at times with the negative (though that’s going to be expected on any message board)

 

[The Moops]

I doesn’t lessen anyones fan status at all. It’s just tiring when certain posters try to find the worst in every little thing, we could go 16-0 en route to winning the cup and there would be complaints about something. It’s perfectly fine to have complaints because no team is perfect, but it just gets tiresome at times with the negative (though that’s going to be expected on any message board)

For sure, I see that frustration. I used to be the same way (early on the user, and definitely on my previous user as well) where I was extremely pessimistic and never saying anything positive. I'm not that way so much anymore, but it cracks me up when the people complaining about the complainers go crazy and focus more on that than anything else. So I have to troll them every now and again.

That being said, nothing annoys me more than when I see people call others fake fans. An argument could be made that the ones complaining the loudest are the most diehard because they expect more from the team

 

[dahrougem2]

I have no problem with people complaining, Allah knows I do my share. There are a very few people who do not balance their criticisms, which included hurling invective at Sakic, with an appreciation for positive plays, decisions, and situations. This is what I am referring to, the people that only see the negative, and/or project possible negative consequences in the future, without acknowledging the positive.

Go review the TDL thread from yesterday morning with people convinced Sakic was not going to make another trade, then he lands Lehkonen. Oh, but he overpaid!

Brother?

 

[forsbergavs32]

For sure, I see that frustration. I used to be the same way (early on the user, and definitely on my previous user as well) where I was extremely pessimistic and never saying anything positive. I'm not that way so much anymore, but it cracks me up when the people complaining about the complainers go crazy and focus more on that than anything else. So I have to troll them every now and again.

That being said, nothing annoys me more than when I see people call others fake fans. An argument could be made that the ones complaining the loudest are the most diehard because they expect more from the team

Oh for sure, no one is less of a fan. I guess I’m looking more at the ones that come across negative for the sake of being negative (which are very few and far between)

 

[Foppberg]

Question: Do people believe that Nuke is a goner this offseason? We have a lot of guys leaving this summer, but I always thought he'd be one of the players we definitely bring back. Now with the Lehkonen trade.. I could see him becoming his replacement..

 

[John Mandalorian]

Question: Do people believe that Nuke is a goner this offseason? We have a lot of guys leaving this summer, but I always thought he'd be one of the players we definitely bring back. Now with the Lehkonen trade.. I could see him becoming his replacement..

You can look at it in different ways. It might mean Lehkonen is his replacement or acquiring Lehjonen might mean they put an extreme value on what Nichushkin does. Who knows what Nichushkin's salary expectation is though?

 

[Foppberg]

You can look at it in different ways. It might mean Lehkonen is his replacement or acquiring Lehjonen might mean they put an extreme value on what Nichushkin does. Who knows what Nichushkin's salary expectation is though?

True. I do still believe he'll be back unless he demands too high of a salary (6M+), but I could also see him leaving with the Sakic rationale of using that money towards a center while having our new Nuke lite at a lower cost.

 

[The Moops]

Even if he wants 12M, you give it to him.

 

[Avsboy]

Can someone say what's in this article about the Avs?

LeBrun: Why Flames didn't pursue Mark Giordano, and more from deadline day

The Canadiens' retooling got off to a good start, plus the latest on Jake DeBrusk, Jakob Chychrun, and more of the deals that didn't happen.

theathletic.com

 

[Avs44]

Can someone say what's in this article about the Avs?

LeBrun: Why Flames didn't pursue Mark Giordano, and more from deadline day

The Canadiens' retooling got off to a good start, plus the latest on Jake DeBrusk, Jakob Chychrun, and more of the deals that didn't happen.

theathletic.com

Not much. Hughes set the price on Lehkonen from the start (1st or equivalent prospect+something else) and the Avs finally became the first team to match it. St. Louis loves Lehkonen, was sad to see him go. Apparently Cogliano's preferred destination was Colorado and the Sharks accommodated that. Nice to know at least some guys want to be here.

 

[Alex Jones]

Can someone say what's in this article about the Avs?

LeBrun: Why Flames didn't pursue Mark Giordano, and more from deadline day

The Canadiens' retooling got off to a good start, plus the latest on Jake DeBrusk, Jakob Chychrun, and more of the deals that didn't happen.

theathletic.com

Not a ton. Says the Habs didn't want to trade Lehkonen. Cogs wanted to come here and the Sharks worked to make it happen. Possible the Avs never had any original interest until he was offered. (speculation on my part)

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

The depth certainly looks better now. Both on offense with Lehkonen and Sturm instead of Jost, and on Defense with Byram and Manson instead of JJ and MacDermid/Murray.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Question: Do people believe that Nuke is a goner this offseason? We have a lot of guys leaving this summer, but I always thought he'd be one of the players we definitely bring back. Now with the Lehkonen trade.. I could see him becoming his replacement..

I certainly hope not. Considering how much the Avs decisions are driven by analytics at this point as well I'd hope/think they recognize how valuable he is as well. With that said, I also dont think its any secret the Lehkonen trade while a nice boost for us this year, also probably serves as Nichushkin insurance as well in case he does price himself out next year.



But I really hope not. The Avs being able to have an elite 2-way player on each of the Top 3 lines going forward(Landy, Nuke, Lehkonen) is exactly the sort of thing that really could extend our window beyond the next couple of years.

 

[Bowe Byrum]

Come on folks, give those Canadian reporters a break. They haven't had a Canadian team win the cup since 1993. Let them have their little enjoyment for the Flames right now because they're gonna be disappointed again at the end of the playoffs

I don't think they care about that stuff but Hrudey does Flames games and lives in Calgary. Bieksa was just in a strange mood. His reasoning was the Flames would pound us physically and he doesn't like the Avs.

He even told the story of his son being a Canes fan after becoming a fan of Aho after World Juniors. Said his son watches all their games in his room and askes him if he wants to watch says "No" and laughs. Very egotistical dude

 

[The Kingslayer]

Question: Do people believe that Nuke is a goner this offseason? We have a lot of guys leaving this summer, but I always thought he'd be one of the players we definitely bring back. Now with the Lehkonen trade.. I could see him becoming his replacement..

I think Joe gets a deal done. Nuke is going to have a lot of teams bidding for his services. I hope theres some loyalty to the org that gave him a chance to flourish but im not expecting it. These are pro athletes and they have a finite time to cash in while they can. Odin forbid a terrible injury befalls him and he loses all his earning power. This is probably Nukes best chance to get the most so if I were in his shoes I would look for that pay day with term.

 

[Richard88]

I've been following your analysis on how Sakic and MacFarland have been constructing this team. The offseason and TDL have always been interesting as we try to ascertain which players will be traded, acquired and at what cost.

You previously pointed out that Sakic doesn't trade players with term, like Zadorov, until they become RFA. Jost was the exception this time around but the Avs are all in now.

It kind of reminded me of the situation in which the Canucks find themselves now. They have talented players but they lack direction (i.e. an overall plan on how to rebuild their organization and team). I'd love to see the blueprint that Sakic and the Avs have.

Jost reportedly had also asked for a trade two years ago, so it's not like Sakic traded him completely against his wishes. Judging by Jost's comments after the trade it seems pretty clear that he wanted a bigger role, which he was never going to get in Colorado.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

So in your opinion the Avs have held on to Kaut and Bowers too long and should have traded them earlier, but trading Helleson and Barron is also wrong? For all we know those prospects may not pan out either, so the Avs may have just sold high on them before they became like Kaut and Bowers. Time will tell.

Totally fair assessment. Maybe I'm being too cautious like Sakic the past years. But we just brought in a lot of depth that seems to indicate Kaut and Bowers have no future with us, so why not deal them? As far as selling high, part of my problem is I think we sold low on higher value prospects. We attached a 2nd to both of them for a 3rd line winger and a bottom pairing UFA defensive defender. Feel like both prospects ~1:1 would have been more reasonable.

Am I the only one thinking that way? I'm happy we're loading up for a run, I'd just prefer in 2 years we weren't then struggling to bring in quality youth to reinforce an expensive aging team.

 

[Avsboy]

If Avs don't land a big fish in FA this coming year (and there aren't many + Copp probably staying in NYR), the forward lineup is still not bad:

Landeskog-Mackinnon-Rantanen
Lehkonen-Newhook-Nichushkin
LOC-Sturm-Compher
Cogliano/X-Maltsev-NAK

Second line would be an analytics darling, 4th line not terrible. 3rd line again is a weakness. This just shows the depth of the team. They are guaranteed to sign at lest some depth forwards.

 

[Richard88]

Brother?

 

[Richard88]

Totally fair assessment. Maybe I'm being too cautious like Sakic the past years. But we just brought in a lot of depth that seems to indicate Kaut and Bowers have no future with us, so why not deal them? As far as selling high, part of my problem is I think we sold low on higher value prospects. We attached a 2nd to both of them for a 3rd line winger and a bottom pairing UFA defensive defender. Feel like both prospects ~1:1 would have been more reasonable.

Am I the only one thinking that way? I'm happy we're loading up for a run, I'd just prefer in 2 years we weren't then struggling to bring in quality youth to reinforce an expensive aging team.

A prospect + pick is a pretty standard price at the deadline, especially for a player with term. As fans we get a bit attached to prospects and also tend to overvalue picks but GM's look at 2nd rounders as having <25% chance of becoming impact players in the NHL. Getting 100 NHL games out of a 2nd round pick is statistically a success, and yet you can pick up players on waivers for free who have 100 games. A 2nd + prospect is just the price of doing business if you want to acquire good players.

 

[Pokecheque]

I can understand why they didn't make a move with Kaut/Bowers at the deadline--if a good deal wasn't out there they shouldn't deal guys just to deal them, at least not yet. Once it becomes a problem with Kaut's waiver eligibility, then you gotta figure something out, but not now.

Besides, both guys still have roles to play on the Eagles, and they appear to be playoff-bound.