2021-2022 S Blues Multi Purpose Thread Part 2

[jura]

sup

 

[PocketNines]

It's so funny to see the NHL lean into the "last place" narrative. No team in NHL history with a .459 points percentage has ever been in last place in the NHL ever, nor will there ever be a team with a .459 in last place at any point in the season.

 

[Em etah Eh]

It's not my money... But I'd offer Perron an 8 year deal to lower caphit and just let him ride out into the sunset (LTIR) whenever he is ready. He just turned 34 so he's not in 35+ contract territory yet. Jersey retirement to follow in 8 years?

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28M (3.5/year)

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

It's so funny to see the NHL lean into the "last place" narrative. No team in NHL history with a .459 points percentage has ever been in last place in the NHL ever, nor will there ever be a team with a .459 in last place at any point in the season.

I’ve given up trying to direct people to points percentage when they want to rank the regular season teams. The mathematical illiteracy is too widespread and too dearly cherished to make a dent. I choose to simply enjoy my memories of the run and let people willfully misstate the details as they like.

 

[Brian39]

Dude and his agent publicly requested a trade last year and has made 0 attempt to retract it publicly. Him waiving his NTC is much more likely than him not

Sticking around to play his contract year with Thomas/Buch in a system he's comfortable with is a very real possibility even if he has decided that he is 100% signing with someone else next summer. I'm not sure that it's the most likely outcome, but I'd wager that his agent will play that card in order to make it clear to Army that he isn't going to waive it for just anywhere.

I'm 100% supportive of the risk Army took by not moving Tarasenko for spare change last summer. It was a good bet and I think Tarasenko was a good player to bet on. But part of the risk was that Tarasenko's response is that he would flex his NTC down the road. He was asked to be a good pro and he met 100% of that expectation. He has absolutely earned the right to say "I was a good pro when you made a calculated business decision, so now I'm going to make a calculated business decision for my family. I wanted to be gone a year ago and that didn't happen, so now the best thing for my family is to play out my contract here." So long as he shows up to work the way he did this year, more power to him.

 

[Brian39]

They have the ability to make plenty of cap flexibility. Scandella, Barbashev, Tarasenko...there are players that can be moved.

If Perron isn't back it's because the Blues were too lazy to do it. It shouldn't be a problem.

The lack of cap flexibility is about more than just next season. If Perron wants more than $6M on a multi-year deal, then it greatly increases the likelihood that we lose two of ROR/Vova/Thomas/Kyrou instead of just one. Fitting him in for next year is secondary to the cap implications down the line if Perron won't consider anything but a multi-year deal.

I think that the Blues will be able to find a deal with Perron because both sides seem motivated to get a deal done. For all we know this is like Bozak's negotiation last summer where they pretty clearly had discussions about letting the dust settle on the rest of the summer to know exactly how much we could give him.

I'm starting to lean closer and closer towards the idea of trading Tarasenko and giving Perron a big AAV on a 1 year deal (with a wink/nod understanding that he'll do a team-friendly 35+ contract the next summer that is structured to push the bulk of the cap to 2024/25).

 

[WeWentBlues]

It's not my money... But I'd offer Perron an 8 year deal to lower caphit and just let him ride out into the sunset (LTIR) whenever he is ready. He just turned 34 so he's not in 35+ contract territory yet. Jersey retirement to follow in 8 years?

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2.5
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28M (3.5/year)

I had the same idea the other week. Hopefully Army will get creative like this and Perron would be open to it. I think it would be a great way to bring Perron back while preserving cap space to pursue roster upgrades.

 

[stl76]

The more I think about it, the more I see Perron signing for ~$5 x 2 and Leddy signing for ~$4 x 4 then trading Scandella for cap space to fill out the rest of the roster and essentially running it back with as close to the same team next season as possible.

 

[WeWentBlues]

The more I think about it, the more I see Perron signing for ~$5 x 2 and Leddy signing for ~$4 x 4 then trading Scandella for cap space to fill out the rest of the roster and essentially running it back with as close to the same team next season as possible.

Not enough cap space for that honestly. Without doing anything else but the moves you outlined above, Blues need to sign 2 F, 1D and a backup goaltender for 3.3M. 4 players making the league minimum just barely sqeeuze under that amount. Some of our RFAs might also get raises (Mikkola, Perunovich). Also might need 2M to allocated to a backup goalie that isnt Joel Hofer.

 

[Brian39]

Not enough cap space for that honestly. Without doing anything else but the moves you outlined above, Blues need to sign 2 F, 1D and a backup goaltender for 3.3M. 4 players making the league minimum just barely sqeeuze under that amount. Some of our RFAs might also get raises (Mikkola, Perunovich). Also might need 2M to allocated to a backup goalie that isnt Joel Hofer.

View attachment 558633

Perunovich absolutely hasn't earned a raise and should have to take a pay cut in order to get a 1 way deal. He's a soon-to-be 24 year old who is waivers exempt and has fewer than 30 NHL games played. He doesn't have arbitration rights and he couldn't stay in a 6 man D unit that had injuries and needed a PP QB in the playoffs. He has absolutely zero negotiating leverage. He is a prime candidate for Army to hardball into league minimum NHL money by offering him a big raise at the AHL level. Army can honestly tell him that his only avenue onto the NHL roster full time next season is to be a league minimum 7th D because every dollar matters for us. If he is making more than his competition for that role, it is easy to choose the guy who makes less and doesn't have to be risked on waiver. Perunovich has a lot to prove in order to earn regular NHL playing time. He has no leverage to negotiate his next deal and he would be dumb to sign his QO and basically guarantee that he makes AHL money most of next year. A league minimum 1 way deal should be the best offer made to him this summer (and honestly Army might be able to get him on a 2 way deal with a $300-$400k AHL salary).

For the backup job, I'd re-sign Lindgren and let him and Hofer fight for the backup job in camp (tie goes to Lindgren so Hofer can keep munching AHL starts). Lindgren doesn't have the leverage to get anything close to $2M. He has earned a raise off his league minimum 2 way deal ($300k in the AHL), but not by a large jump. I doubt he does any better than a cheap 1 way deal with the inside track to an NHL roster spot. Assuming Husso is gone, then I think you're committing to filling the backup job as cheap as you can while still retaining AHL depth at the position. Signing a vet like Lindgren who is already in the system by guaranteeing him NHL money is probably the best play. It shouldn't take even $1M of guaranteed money to get it done.

So Perunovich and the backup should cost you about $1.5-$1.75M against the cap if they both make the roster. That gets you to 21 guys and about $1.5-$1.8M in remaining space and you have to make a decision about using that all on 1 guy to run a 22 man roster or using it on two near-league-minimum guys and running 23. It would be interesting to see what Mikkola gets or if the Blues even commit to qualifying him since an arbitrator could give him more than we can/will pay him.

All in all, I think that it is doable to fill out the remaining spots if you extend Perron and Leddy for a combined $9M against the cap. You have to clear all of Scandella's salary (which I think is doable) and you have to fill in the rest with all dirt cheap guys. But I think all of the remaining roles can be effectively filled with those dirt cheap guys.

 

[Mike Liut]

Army is going to make a big move this off-season.

 

[Blueston]

Army is going to make a big move this off-season.

He usually does.

 

[WeWentBlues]

Army is going to make a big move this off-season.

I think he's too boxed in this time unless Tarasenko still wants out. Otherwise, I struggle to see a way where the net positive of moves made results in a better team next year. It's already a challenge to maintain a roster as good as last year's, much less improve.

 

[stl76]

Not enough cap space for that honestly. Without doing anything else but the moves you outlined above, Blues need to sign 2 F, 1D and a backup goaltender for 3.3M. 4 players making the league minimum just barely sqeeuze under that amount. Some of our RFAs might also get raises (Mikkola, Perunovich). Also might need 2M to allocated to a backup goalie that isnt Joel Hofer.

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Yeah my thinking is basically we fill out the rest of the roster with players making around league min (Mikkola, Perunovich, Lindgren, prospect/vet signing). Brian already laid it out better than I would haha but I think it is a real possibility.

I recall quite a bit of chatter around the org alluding to the fact that the team was really close knit and had great chemistry this year. My read on the situation is that the players/managment/coaches all thought this team was very close to winning a cup and think they have a good chance of winning next season if they can make some small improvements and get a little luck. Could be wrong (often am), but I don't think the org sees this summer as the time to make large moves/drastic changes to the roster and locker room unless a deal comes along that is too good to pass up. Don't have any inside info or anything, just my two cents.

 

[MissouriMook]

I think he's too boxed in this time unless Tarasenko still wants out. Otherwise, I struggle to see a way where the net positive of moves made results in a better team next year. It's already a challenge to maintain a roster as good as last year's, much less improve.

I think this is the right answer. We're already up against the cap assuming we bring back Perron, and Tarasenko is the only big contract that we can reasonably expect to get moved out. I would expect any deal with Tarasenko moving out will probably have a Top 9 forward coming back to preserve our depth, so it would seem likely to have to be something like Tarasenko + Scandella (almost certainly with other picks and prospects) for a RW replacement and a Top 4 (hopefully top pairing) LD. I've been thinking for months now about something with those two around Provorov and Konecny, but that is only based on the chatter that the Flyers are apparently looking to move both of those players, and I expect the value from the Flyers side would have to be enhanced by allowing Fletcher to discuss an extension with Tarasenko's agent.

I don't know which side of 50/50 I would lean to at the moment on whether or not Tarasenko gets moved, but in my mind it is pretty close to even money.
Frankly, I haven't followed the draft much in the last few years, but with what I've been hearing about the prospects that might be available at 23 this season, I expect Army to trade the pick to improve the club now.

 

[WeWentBlues]

I think this is the right answer. We're already up against the cap assuming we bring back Perron, and Tarasenko is the only big contract that we can reasonably expect to get moved out. I would expect any deal with Tarasenko moving out will probably have a Top 9 forward coming back to preserve our depth, so it would seem likely to have to be something like Tarasenko + Scandella (almost certainly with other picks and prospects) for a RW replacement and a Top 4 (hopefully top pairing) LD. I've been thinking for months now about something with those two around Provorov and Konecny, but that is only based on the chatter that the Flyers are apparently looking to move both of those players, and I expect the value from the Flyers side would have to be enhanced by allowing Fletcher to discuss an extension with Tarasenko's agent.

I don't know which side of 50/50 I would lean to at the moment on whether or not Tarasenko gets moved, but in my mind it is pretty close to even money.
Frankly, I haven't followed the draft much in the last few years, but with what I've been hearing about the prospects that might be available at 23 this season, I expect Army to trade the pick to improve the club now.

Always the option to move Tarasenko in one deal and acquire another RW somewhere else.
Assuming Perron is back and Tarasenko is the odd man out, I agree Armstrong would want to bring back a competent RW to preserve the depth in the Top 9. Konecny is one. Doesn't need to be a one stop shop to acquire RW and LHD in one deal.

Looking around the league at who might be available/would be a cheaper option than Tarasenko's 7.5M:
Tuch - BUF
Hoffman - MON (although that experiment already failed once)
Zucker - PIT (probably pass for me)
Kapanen - PIT
Kane - CHI (Retained at 50%?)
Debrincat - CHI (too expensive?)
Johnson - CHI (maybe)
Toffoli - CAL
Puljujarvi - EDM
Yamamoto - EDM
Moore - LAK
Kempe - LAK
Meier - SJ
Eberle - SEA
Donskoi - SEA
Garland - VAN
Boeser - VAN
DeBrusk - BOS
Marchessault - VGK

Free agency is also looking pretty juicy. Reilly Smith, Rickard Rakell, Phil Kessel, Claude Giroux, Filip Forsberg, Ondrej Palat, Nino Niederreiter, Andre Burakovsky, Vincent Trochek, Valeri Nichuskin

Could see a scenario where Tarasenko is moved for cap space to upgrade the D and one of these wingers is brought in at a lesser AAV than Tarasenko's 7.5M.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I'm starting to feel it's much more likely were going to let Leddy and Husso Walk, resign Mikkola and Perron, and trade Scandella and Perunovich while Aquiring Provorov.

Saad-RoR-Perron
Buch-Thomas-Tarasenko
Neighbors-Schenn-Kyrou
Barbashev-Brown-Toropchenko

Provorov-Parayko
Krug-Faulk
Mikkola-Bortuzzo

Binnington
Lindgren

 

[Blueston]

I'm starting to feel it's much more likely were going to let Leddy and Husso Walk, resign Mikkola and Perron, and trade Scandella and Perunovich while Aquiring Provorov.

Saad-RoR-Perron
Buch-Thomas-Tarasenko
Neighbors-Schenn-Kyrou
Barbashev-Brown-Toropchenko

Provorov-Parayko
Krug-Faulk
Mikkola-Bortuzzo

Binnington
Lindgren

Not sure how you are going to fit that under cap, but looks like damn good lineup.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Not sure how you are going to fit that under cap, but looks like damn good lineup.

Mikkola and Lindgren shouldn't cost much more than 2.5mul combined. And Perron around 5mil. We wouldn't need to resign Peru, and Scandella should be enough if not close to enough vto squeak under. But I'm doing this all in my head so I could be a mil or so off.

 

[Brian39]

I think he's too boxed in this time unless Tarasenko still wants out. Otherwise, I struggle to see a way where the net positive of moves made results in a better team next year. It's already a challenge to maintain a roster as good as last year's, much less improve.

I don't view us as being that boxed in. $9M in space to fill 5 roster spots isn't a horrible cap situation. Especially when you consider the actual holes. We've got 8 forwards under contract who scored 20+ goals. Our top 3 D are locked up and there are another 2 no-doubt NHL D men under contract in Scandella and Bort. For better or worse, Binner is locked up.

I don't know what Army's plan is, but I absolutely think that he has the cap space for the the sum of his moves to give us a better chance in the playoffs. $9M isn't an insignificant amount of money to go after 2 top-half-of-the-lineup players, a backup, and a couple healthy scratches. Moving Tarasenko drastically increases that cap space, but there are other 'around the edges' moves to create more space (Scandella and Barby being the most obvious two).

Neighbours will very likely get every chance to contribute in the bottom 6 and maybe Bolduc gets a stab at the middle 6 after the fantastic season he had. Beyond those two at the top of the prospect pile, we've got a good chunk of cheap depth in the system that allows us to confidently plug in sub-$900k talent into the bottom of the roster and focus the bulk of that $9M on whatever move Army wants to make. Army very well may decide to just run it back with mostly the same group, but if he wants to make a bold move he's got the cap freedom to do so.

 

[Reality Czech]

Always the option to move Tarasenko in one deal and acquire another RW somewhere else.
Assuming Perron is back and Tarasenko is the odd man out, I agree Armstrong would want to bring back a competent RW to preserve the depth in the Top 9. Konecny is one. Doesn't need to be a one stop shop to acquire RW and LHD in one deal.

Looking around the league at who might be available/would be a cheaper option than Tarasenko's 7.5M:
Tuch - BUF
Hoffman - MON (although that experiment already failed once)
Zucker - PIT (probably pass for me)
Kapanen - PIT
Kane - CHI (Retained at 50%?)
Debrincat - CHI (too expensive?)
Johnson - CHI (maybe)
Toffoli - CAL
Puljujarvi - EDM
Yamamoto - EDM
Moore - LAK
Kempe - LAK
Meier - SJ
Eberle - SEA
Donskoi - SEA
Garland - VAN
Boeser - VAN
DeBrusk - BOS
Marchessault - VGK

Free agency is also looking pretty juicy. Reilly Smith, Rickard Rakell, Phil Kessel, Claude Giroux, Filip Forsberg, Ondrej Palat, Nino Niederreiter, Andre Burakovsky, Vincent Trochek, Valeri Nichuskin

Could see a scenario where Tarasenko is moved for cap space to upgrade the D and one of these wingers is brought in at a lesser AAV than Tarasenko's 7.5M.

If Perron and/or Tarasenko are not back next year, Palat would be a hell of a replacement for either one although I doubt we would outbid everyone else. That guy's gonna get paid this summer and he deserves it.

 

[BlueMed]

I'm starting to feel it's much more likely were going to let Leddy and Husso Walk, resign Mikkola and Perron, and trade Scandella and Perunovich while Aquiring Provorov.

Saad-RoR-Perron
Buch-Thomas-Tarasenko
Neighbors-Schenn-Kyrou
Barbashev-Brown-Toropchenko

Provorov-Parayko
Krug-Faulk
Mikkola-Bortuzzo

Binnington
Lindgren

Per JR, Leddy is looking for a 4-5 year deal worth 5M+. We need to resign him AND trade for a #1LHD. That might not leave anything left for Perron. I'd rather have Leddy than Perron given our greater need for defense and that Leddy is also 3 years younger than Perron.

 

[Blueston]

Per JR, Leddy is looking for a 4-5 year deal worth 5M+. We need to resign him AND trade for a #1LHD. That might not leave anything left for Perron. I'd rather have Leddy than Perron given our greater need for defense and that Leddy is also 3 years younger than Perron.

That is too much for Leddy if we are going to bring in someone better. He needs to be under $4mm I think if we are bringing in someone like Provo or Chyc. Can't be spending over $11.5mm for our 2nd and 3rd pair LD.

 

[BlueMed]

That is too much for Leddy if we are going to bring in someone better. He needs to be under $4mm I think if we are bringing in someone like Provo or Chyc. Can't be spending over $11.5mm for our 2nd and 3rd pair LD.

The valuable thing about Chychrun is that his cap is only 4.6M. The real cap burner here is Krug, and there's nothing the team can really do about that now, but I'd like to see him on the 3rd pairing. I think prioritizing Leddy over Perron is the right thing to do. If we can't get the puck out of our end against a heavy forecheck, then this team will be bad 5 on 5 and reliant on a strong powerplay.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Per JR, Leddy is looking for a 4-5 year deal worth 5M+. We need to resign him AND trade for a #1LHD. That might not leave anything left for Perron. I'd rather have Leddy than Perron given our greater need for defense and that Leddy is also 3 years younger than Perron.

I’d be interested in bringing Leddy back, but certainly not for that price.