2021-2022 Around The League - Part VII

[Tweaky]

Also, on the subject of team penalties....Avs draw the most, yes. But they are also top 10 for penalties taken this year. And they are not #1 for net penalty differential...that would be the Penguins at +0.75 per game to the Avs +0.49 per game (also net +52 vs +33 on total count).

For the last three seasons (not including this one)....Avs are #1 in drawn, and #7 in taken., #2 in net and net/game (to FLA).

The Avs do pretty well with the refs by the counts. But watching the games, we see them miss a ton. And yes, they miss them both ways. But the timing is suspect....Avs get a couple early PPs, score on one, maybe pot another goal or two...and the whistles are put away until the refs find something to ding the Avs for. Like last game.... Flames got the first 3 PPs including the dive that resulted in the 5v3 they scored on. Then the Avs get 3, scoring on 2 of them, and the last one was Kadri being tripped and he has a rep of diving but it wasn't a dive so they didn't call it. Uh-oh, Avs weren't supposed to score twice, so they ignore the trip on Nuke and call the identical trip on Kadri. That didn't work, so find something else....oh goody, we can punish Kadri again. The calls on Kadri were legit...not going to argue that. But the trip on Nuke was as well, and should have stopped play. By not calling it, it directly led to the call on Kadri. Call it right, and the Avs get another PP, which could lead to another goal the way that PP is rolling, and that ends with a stat line of 1/3 PP for CGY and 2/4 or 3/4 for COL, and that looks bad on the refs.

I am staunch supporter of call every infraction. f*** this let them play BS. Break a rule, get a penalty. Playoffs or not, regardless of score or timeclock. Players will adjust. They absolutely have adjusted to the enforcement changes since the lockout even though some of the enforcement has backslid a bit. Too late this season, but if they start a season with calling the rule book, by the time playoffs roll around, it will be settled.

/rant

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Like everybody here I hate the game management aspect from the refs but I have learned to deal with it as long as it is not too obvious. The Nuke/Kadri plays last game is where I draw the line. That trip on Nuke HAD to be called. That was way too obvious.

 

[avsfan9]

I dont give a f*** who we play. We are the best of the west, and currently No 1 in the league at points.

Doesn´t matter who we face. A full squad with Landy, Girard and, hopefully, Playoff-Mac back, combined with Lehkkonen and Manson adapted to the system, doesn´t have to fear anyone.

So do I. Speakin of Vegas: They´ll have to even make the playoffs. As it stands now, this will be hard enough.

Yeah we have a totally different team then our last two playoffs. We can beat any team in the league in a series. Vegas included!

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

 

[Pokecheque]

Wow, Lyubushkin got injured in that assault by Hall? I bet the dopes at DOPS are regretting that decision now.

Saw Keller's injury on replay. Really weird, Meloche stuck his stick out to prevent him from getting around, which wasn't anything outright dirty but should've been a penalty, and he awkwardly fell into the boards.

 

[henchman21]

Also, on the subject of team penalties....Avs draw the most, yes. But they are also top 10 for penalties taken this year. And they are not #1 for net penalty differential...that would be the Penguins at +0.75 per game to the Avs +0.49 per game (also net +52 vs +33 on total count).

For the last three seasons (not including this one)....Avs are #1 in drawn, and #7 in taken., #2 in net and net/game (to FLA).

The Avs do pretty well with the refs by the counts. But watching the games, we see them miss a ton. And yes, they miss them both ways. But the timing is suspect....Avs get a couple early PPs, score on one, maybe pot another goal or two...and the whistles are put away until the refs find something to ding the Avs for. Like last game.... Flames got the first 3 PPs including the dive that resulted in the 5v3 they scored on. Then the Avs get 3, scoring on 2 of them, and the last one was Kadri being tripped and he has a rep of diving but it wasn't a dive so they didn't call it. Uh-oh, Avs weren't supposed to score twice, so they ignore the trip on Nuke and call the identical trip on Kadri. That didn't work, so find something else....oh goody, we can punish Kadri again. The calls on Kadri were legit...not going to argue that. But the trip on Nuke was as well, and should have stopped play. By not calling it, it directly led to the call on Kadri. Call it right, and the Avs get another PP, which could lead to another goal the way that PP is rolling, and that ends with a stat line of 1/3 PP for CGY and 2/4 or 3/4 for COL, and that looks bad on the refs.

I am staunch supporter of call every infraction. f*** this let them play BS. Break a rule, get a penalty. Playoffs or not, regardless of score or timeclock. Players will adjust. They absolutely have adjusted to the enforcement changes since the lockout even though some of the enforcement has backslid a bit. Too late this season, but if they start a season with calling the rule book, by the time playoffs roll around, it will be settled.

/rant

Pitt is an outlier this year and they are a HUGE differential that we haven't seen in the past.

But the Florida/Avs... Avs are net +101 over the past 3 seasons (including this one which I'll argue is the most important), Florida is net +66. This year it is 33/11 Avs/Florida. Last year 32/25 Avs/Florida (Avs led the league). 19-20 was 37/30 Avs/Florida. 18-19 Florida led the league with +39 and Avs were +17. So in most recent data... Avs have been 13-8-10 in penalties taken past 3 seasons including this year.

Avs simply get some of the most favorable reffing in the league and it is consistent at this point. Yeah there are missed calls and game management, but all teams face that. In the end the Avs get the most net PP chances. Pens are an outlier this year, but look at the last 2-3-4-5 years combined... Avs are far ahead of the rest of the league. In fact the closest is gets is +14 above every other team in those years combined... even with the absurd numbers the Pens have.

 

[S E P H]

Sean Avery got his wish...

 

[Richard88]

Pitt is an outlier this year and they are a HUGE differential that we haven't seen in the past.

But the Florida/Avs... Avs are net +101 over the past 3 seasons (including this one which I'll argue is the most important), Florida is net +66. This year it is 33/11 Avs/Florida. Last year 32/25 Avs/Florida (Avs led the league). 19-20 was 37/30 Avs/Florida. 18-19 Florida led the league with +39 and Avs were +17. So in most recent data... Avs have been 13-8-10 in penalties taken past 3 seasons including this year.

Avs simply get some of the most favorable reffing in the league and it is consistent at this point. Yeah there are missed calls and game management, but all teams face that. In the end the Avs get the most net PP chances. Pens are an outlier this year, but look at the last 2-3-4-5 years combined... Avs are far ahead of the rest of the league. In fact the closest is gets is +14 above every other team in those years combined... even with the absurd numbers the Pens have.

Avs are also far and away the team leading the league in chances off the rush so it seems logical that they'd get more calls simply due to those being situations that generate holding, tripping, and slashing calls.

 

[Pokecheque]

Avs are also far and away the team leading the league in chances off the rush so it seems logical that they'd get more calls simply due to those being situations that generate holding, tripping, and slashing calls.

Really? Interesting, I thought I was talking with someone on Twitter who indicated last season their chances generated off the rush was not nearly as high as you might think. Part of that is because they were so damned dominant with the puck in that cushy West Division that they really didn't need to rush the puck up-ice.

 

[Balthazar]

Avs are also far and away the team leading the league in chances off the rush so it seems logical that they'd get more calls simply due to those being situations that generate holding, tripping, and slashing calls.

Carolina are dead last in the NHL, which means that favorable reffing it's not directly related to:

- Talent
- Speed
- Chances off the rush

 

[Avs91]

Did he die from getting hit in the ear or getting hit in the head? And we're talking about NHLers, not kids.

There's plenty of vulnerable uncovered places. Should they wear jaw protectors too? That's more susceptible to a serious injury than the ear.

You can potentially die from getting hit with a puck anywhere in the face. Do you say, "yeah be brave and die" to NHLers that don't wear full face shields?

I think ‘ear’ is meant to be taken as ‘side of the head’, which yeah, is quite a bit more serious than the jaw. You can live without a jaw, you cannot live if your brain hemorrhages and you have a devastating stroke. Also, being older doesn’t make brain injury less severe (see Bob Saget, dude fell and bumped his head and died in his sleep).

Full shields will be mandatory at some point, just like helmets. Might be years, but it will happen

 

[avs1dacup]

Wow, Lyubushkin got injured in that assault by Hall? I bet the dopes at DOPS are regretting that decision now.

Saw Keller's injury on replay. Really weird, Meloche stuck his stick out to prevent him from getting around, which wasn't anything outright dirty but should've been a penalty, and he awkwardly fell into the boards.

They don't give a shit, especially Parros. Is Hall another one of Violent Gentlemen sponsors? Wouldn't surprise me at this point. It's a massive conflict of interest to have any current players involved with him in any way. But the league doesn't care. Because they're second rate. Sad to see but is what it is.

 

[Metallo]

Did he die from getting hit in the ear or getting hit in the head? And we're talking about NHLers, not kids.

There's plenty of vulnerable uncovered places. Should they wear jaw protectors too? That's more susceptible to a serious injury than the ear.

You can potentially die from getting hit with a puck anywhere in the face. Do you say, "yeah be brave and die" to NHLers that don't wear full face shields?

19yo in the MHL hit in the ear.

Ice hockey player Timur Faizutdinov dies after taking puck to his head

Doctors were trying to save his life for three days, but there was no positive dynamics.

english.pravda.ru

I believe that part of the head is more vulnerable to a lethal injury than the jaw or forehead. So your argument is flawed.

Making fun of ear protection is just stupid, that protection should be mandatory.

 

[henchman21]

Avs are also far and away the team leading the league in chances off the rush so it seems logical that they'd get more calls simply due to those being situations that generate holding, tripping, and slashing calls.

Where are you getting these? I have Florida and Vegas as 1/2 and Avs at 4/5 in most stats (right next to Calgary... Oilers mostly third). Florida is 10th with a +11, Vegas 21st with a -3, Oilers 25th at -12, and Calgary 17th at +1.

A stat that I think could be a key, is slot shots off the cycle... Avs are beastly there and a good chunk of the offense is derived from digging the puck out and getting it to dangerous areas. Off the cycle plays tend to have a lot of hooks and holds (at a higher rate than off the rush).

 

[Foppa2118]

19yo in the MHL hit in the ear.

Ice hockey player Timur Faizutdinov dies after taking puck to his head

Doctors were trying to save his life for three days, but there was no positive dynamics.

english.pravda.ru

I believe that part of the head is more vulnerable to a lethal injury than the jaw or forehead. So your argument is flawed.

Making fun of ear protection is just stupid, that protection should be mandatory.

No you have to take into account the likelihood that couple inch area is to be hit with a puck, versus hit in the jaw or somewhere else with a puck or an elbow or shoulder. If you have hundreds of guys getting brain damage and cte from hits to the jaw over the years, and no serious injuries that I'm aware of in the NHL from taking pucks to the ear, which one is a bigger area of concern?

 

[Foppa2118]

I think ‘ear’ is meant to be taken as ‘side of the head’, which yeah, is quite a bit more serious than the jaw. You can live without a jaw, you cannot live if your brain hemorrhages and you have a devastating stroke. Also, being older doesn’t make brain injury less severe (see Bob Saget, dude fell and bumped his head and died in his sleep).

Full shields will be mandatory at some point, just like helmets. Might be years, but it will happen

How many serious injuries have we seen from players getting hit in the jaw (many of which with long term effects) versus getting hit in the ear?

Being older and more experience has a big difference in terms of protecting yourself. NHLers are way better at protecting themselves on the ice than kids. Kids are generally terrible at protecting themselves everywhere, on or off the ice. They should be protected way more than professionals.

And I doubt full shields will be mandatory unless the game changes. We haven't seen a need for it. Before the half shields we were seeing guys take errant sticks and pucks in the eyes quite often. Hence the need.

 

[Metallo]

No you have to take into account the likelihood that couple inch area is to be hit with a puck, versus hit in the jaw or somewhere else with a puck or an elbow or shoulder. If you have hundreds of guys getting brain damage and cte from hits to the jaw over the years, and no serious injuries that I'm aware of in the NHL from taking pucks to the ear, which one is a bigger area of concern?

That's a whole new debate and not my comment at all. Helmets should have ear guards and laughing about it is stupid but par for the course for Avery.

 

[Richard88]

Where are you getting these? I have Florida and Vegas as 1/2 and Avs at 4/5 in most stats (right next to Calgary... Oilers mostly third). Florida is 10th with a +11, Vegas 21st with a -3, Oilers 25th at -12, and Calgary 17th at +1.

A stat that I think could be a key, is slot shots off the cycle... Avs are beastly there and a good chunk of the offense is derived from digging the puck out and getting it to dangerous areas. Off the cycle plays tend to have a lot of hooks and holds (at a higher rate than off the rush).

I was referring to the data from the video linked below which I assumed was still quite relevant given that the Avs style hasn't changed much. Admittedly it's a little dated now; I didn't realise that it's already been 2 years since this video came out... time flies...).

 

[henchman21]

I was referring to the data from the video linked below which I assumed was still quite relevant given that the Avs style hasn't changed much. Admittedly it's a little dated now; I didn't realise that it's already been 2 years since this video came out... time flies...).

View attachment 524547

Okay that makes sense... I'd say the Avs style has changed a bit since a couple years ago. There is much more in the zone cycle and dropping the D down which has limited their rush chances, though they are still a top 5 team in the area.

I think the Avs should clearly draw more penalties than they take, just that the rate at which they do that is consistently above the rest of the league by a wide margin. This is at such a degree it is pretty laughable to think the refs are against the Avs. IMO teams that have a legit complaint are the Canes and Oilers. Canes for being the exact opposite than the Avs... and Oilers for obvious reasons.

 

[Richard88]

Okay that makes sense... I'd say the Avs style has changed a bit since a couple years ago. There is much more in the zone cycle and dropping the D down which has limited their rush chances, though they are still a top 5 team in the area.

I think the Avs should clearly draw more penalties than they take, just that the rate at which they do that is consistently above the rest of the league by a wide margin. This is at such a degree it is pretty laughable to think the refs are against the Avs. IMO teams that have a legit complaint are the Canes and Oilers. Canes for being the exact opposite than the Avs... and Oilers for obvious reasons.

Yeah I'd agree with that. One of the biggest changes is how frequently the Avs use the high cycle which, iirc, they didn't really start using a lot until last season.

 

[Pokecheque]

Oh and it appears Gurianov will be a healthy scratch again for the Stars.

They manage to get one of the very few guys in that incredible 1st round in 2015 who's not really panning out and yet they still have an incredibly deep lineup. I swear they're the Cosmo Kramer of the NHL.

 

[Foppa2118]

So?

What is the point of not wearing the ear protection? It makes zero difference for hearing or heat retention. The only reason to not wear them is vanity. I realize that hockey players are a vain bunch....hence why they are the only major sport with actual award ceremonies for best hair. But to mock someone for not being vain is ridiculous. Mocking the haircut ain't much better.

Just to respond to your comment as well, to be consistent I feel you should take this same stance with jaw protectors and other safety measures. They make zero difference with regard to vision and breathing, and would prevent getting KO'd on the ice, where not only would you suffer the injury and long term effects from the hit, but could also hit your head on the ice after being KO'd and die. Just like getting hit in the ear with a puck. Possibly even more likely given how often guys get KO'd.

My main point is you have to draw a line on safety measures somewhere, and it should be dictated by how likely it is something could happen. We see way more serious injuries from getting hit in the jaw, than getting hit in the ear with a shot. Personally I've never seen someone have a serious injury from getting hit in the ear. I've seen bloody ears, but nothing serious.

And we're talking about a couple inches of uncovered area, that I'm not convinced a piece of plastic is going to do much to prevent an injury if you get hit with a puck from a shot anyway. There's plastic around the ear with the helmet anyway. It would have to be an absolute fluke shot that you never saw coming, and couldn't move your head an inch, while you were starring away from the puck (unlikely) and it hit perfectly in that very small area. And it also would have to hit hard enough, and without the puck (which is bigger than the unprotected area) catching a piece of the helmet to absorb the blow. The same with other areas of the face, which are further away from the helmet.

Your cheekbones aren't covered. Your jaw isn't covered. Neither the front or the back of your neck is covered. Your neck is a way bigger unprotected area where you could take a shot there and be paralyzed or die. Much more likely you could get hit by a shot here than your ear. If you're going to chastise people for vanity, then you need to be in favor of full face shields and helmets that cover all of your neck. You should also be in favor of heavy chain mail neck protectors, jerseys, and shorts that protect the carotid arteries in your neck, your liver, and femoral arteries in your legs from getting cut by skates.

It doesn't make you vain if you don't want to take all these safety precautions. It just means that people play hockey for fun not safety, and it's a fast dangerous sport, where you can't eliminate all the risks for professionals (especially the flukey ones that haven't even happened in the NHL) associated with it.