Red Sox/MLB 2020 Spring Training IX - Red Sox say Chris Sale has a flexor strain, will be reassessed in a week

[RockLobster]

Again, this notion that the Red Sox should have known what they now know about Graterol's medicals is absurd. Teams don't just share that with other teams. So they obviously knew he missed time with an injury, but would have otherwise had no idea where he was at in rehab and whatnot before getting the medical records from the Minnesota Twins.

Again, I find it perfectly fine to be upset at only getting Verdugo and Graterol initially, that's fine. But teams don't know the medical history of players that are not in their organization (relative to the extent of medical history knowledge of their own players).

If the Red Sox are having to go back to Minnesota to get a 2nd top-level prospect before completing this deal, then it's just more proof that Bloom got bent over by Friedman. Because honestly, the genie has been let out of the bottle, Dodgers fans are happy they appear to be getting Betts, especially after an entire offseason of doing jack-shit. LA needs to f***ing pay up, not Minnesota.

 

[Smitty93]

Again, this notion that the Red Sox should have known what they now know about Graterol's medicals is absurd. Teams don't just share that with other teams. So they obviously knew he missed time with an injury, but would have otherwise had no idea where he was at in rehab and whatnot before getting the medical records from the Minnesota Twins.

Again, I find it perfectly fine to be upset at only getting Verdugo and Graterol initially, that's fine. But teams don't know the medical history of players that are not in their organization (relative to the extent of medical history knowledge of their own players).

If the Red Sox are having to go back to Minnesota to get a 2nd top-level prospect before completing this deal, then it's just more proof that Bloom got bent over by Friedman. Because honestly, the genie has been let out of the bottle, Dodgers fans are happy they appear to be getting Betts, especially after an entire offseason of doing jack-****. LA needs to ****ing pay up, not Minnesota.

Exactly. Minnesota is fine if there's no deal, and I think the Red Sox are too. If you're the Dodgers, you can't say you traded for Betts, and then have the whole thing fall apart. There are too many of their roster players involved in all of this for them to be ok with the deal being nixed.

 

[KrejciMVP]

Even downtown if you put the Al's in it and concerts?

Tough to invest emotionally in a team that's not even Montreals. The baseball would be fun to watch but it's TBs team at the end of the day.

 

[Therick67]

Is it at all possible that the Red Sox knew he had an injury history and that he'd have to be babied before he could start on a full-time basis, but that Graterol's medical record were worse than they thought?

I mean, if teams had full knowledge of a player's medical history prior to trades being completed, there would be absolutely no need for physicals, right?

Sure, it's very possible and no, I don't expect teams to have full knowledge of a players medical history. In this case it was pretty obvious this guy has had his fair share of problems.

I'd also think just based on what google call tell you about this guys history, you'd look at another comparable pitcher with less health issues .

 

[LSCII]

Again, this notion that the Red Sox should have known what they now know about Graterol's medicals is absurd. Teams don't just share that with other teams. So they obviously knew he missed time with an injury, but would have otherwise had no idea where he was at in rehab and whatnot before getting the medical records from the Minnesota Twins.

Again, I find it perfectly fine to be upset at only getting Verdugo and Graterol initially, that's fine. But teams don't know the medical history of players that are not in their organization (relative to the extent of medical history knowledge of their own players).

If the Red Sox are having to go back to Minnesota to get a 2nd top-level prospect before completing this deal, then it's just more proof that Bloom got bent over by Friedman. Because honestly, the genie has been let out of the bottle, Dodgers fans are happy they appear to be getting Betts, especially after an entire offseason of doing jack-****. LA needs to ****ing pay up, not Minnesota.

While they don't have access to the actual medical records, they were aware he'd already had TJ surgery at an early age, which is a concern, and that he struggled last season with an impingement in his shoulder, which is also a red flag. Not sure seeing the medicals would change anything, given he's got a sordid injury history with his arm and shoulder at a very young age. That is not a real good starting point, even if he's got talent.

If I were Bloom, I'd have been looking elsewhere based on him already blowing out his arm once and then having internal shoulder issues. You can only get so many cortisone shots in a joint before it starts breaking down and once there is inflammation inside the joint, it generally keeps coming back. Don't need to see medicals to realize this. It's simply reality.

 

[Gator Mike]

No, probably not, but somehow the deal keeps looking worse and worse every day, and that's not good for a deal that was bad from the start.

FWIW, I read an ESPN+ article from two of their baseball writers the other day where they gave grades to the Red Sox and Dodgers.

The first writer gave the Red Sox a B+ and said his biggest issue was the idea that they were kind of punting on a season where they had a chance to make the playoffs. He also acknowledged that the current team has "issues" and said that management likely saw those issues as well.

The second writer gave them an A.

 

[LSCII]

Is it at all possible that the Red Sox knew he had an injury history and that he'd have to be babied before he could start on a full-time basis, but that Graterol's medical record were worse than they thought?

Sure, but if this was true, wouldn't that make you also question WTF the Sox and Bloom were thinking? Taking back a guy they knew was damaged goods as part of this trade seems incredibly stupid, no? Bailing after realizing it's even worse doesn't make me feel better about the transaction. In fact it makes me feel worse.

 

[RockLobster]

While they don't have access to the actual medical records, they were aware he'd already had TJ surgery at an early age, which is a concern, and that he struggled last season with an impingement in his shoulder, which is also a red flag. Not sure seeing the medicals would change anything, given he's got a sordid injury history with his arm and shoulder at a very young age. That is not a real good starting point, even if he's got talent.

If I were Bloom, I'd have been looking elsewhere based on him already blowing out his arm once and then having internal shoulder issues. You can only get so many cortisone shots in a joint before it starts breaking down and once there is inflammation inside the joint, it generally keeps coming back. Don't need to see medicals to realize this. It's simply reality.

I think it depends on how bad the shoulder injury was and how they viewed it before seeing his medicals. I see this as they knew he missed time, but that if the shoulder issue was relatively minor in the grand scheme of things, and MIN was just being cautious, then they're "OKAY" with it. Turns out it was worse than they initially thought. I don't think you can fault them for that. That's why all these deals are always "pending physical/review of medical records".

 

[LSCII]

I think it depends on how bad the shoulder injury was and how they viewed it before seeing his medicals. I see this as they knew he missed time, but that if the shoulder issue was relatively minor in the grand scheme of things, and MIN was just being cautious, then they're "OKAY" with it. Turns out it was worse than they initially thought. I don't think you can fault them for that. That's why all these deals are always "pending physical/review of medical records".

Given the talk by the Twins and how they were viewing him as a reliever instead of a starter as of last season, I find it hard to believe they were caught off guard by the medicals. The Twins basically came out and said he can't hold up as a starter because his arm/shoulder won't tolerate that much abuse. That's pretty damning.

 

[LSCII]

FWIW, I read an ESPN+ article from two of their baseball writers the other day where they gave grades to the Red Sox and Dodgers.

The first writer gave the Red Sox a B+ and said his biggest issue was the idea that they were kind of punting on a season where they had a chance to make the playoffs. He also acknowledged that the current team has "issues" and said that management likely saw those issues as well.

The second writer gave them an A.

 

[Therick67]

FWIW, I read an ESPN+ article from two of their baseball writers the other day where they gave grades to the Red Sox and Dodgers.

The first writer gave the Red Sox a B+ and said his biggest issue was the idea that they were kind of punting on a season where they had a chance to make the playoffs. He also acknowledged that the current team has "issues" and said that management likely saw those issues as well.

The second writer gave them an A.

Iv'e read a lot of opinions on the trade and most have said the Red Sox as the losers in this.

I'd love to know why someone would feel they get an A? I wish I had teachers in High School who were this generous..

 

[LSCII]

Iv'e read a lot of opinions on the trade and most have said the Red Sox as the losers in this.

I'd love to know why someone would feel they get an A? I wish I had teachers in High School who were this generous..

Highest I've seen the Sox get for a grade is C-, with the consensus generally being a D. How anyone in their right f***ing minds could give them an A or a B+? Yeah, no. That's just some kind of crazy right there. In other news, I want what those guys are on.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Highest I've seen the Sox get for a grade is C-, with the consensus generally being a D. How anyone in their right ****ing minds could give them an A or a B+? Yeah, no. That's just some kind of crazy right there. In other news, I want what those guys are on.

That's called a "John Henry threw me some nice coin to say nice things about an awful trade" article.

 

[RockLobster]

LOL, got some Dodgers fans pppppppissed off on Twitter at this.

Honestly, at this point, f*** them. If they don't want to pay up, just send him to SD. IDGAF anymore.

 

[Smitty93]

Iv'e read a lot of opinions on the trade and most have said the Red Sox as the losers in this.

I'd love to know why someone would feel they get an A? I wish I had teachers in High School who were this generous..

I saw some people say the Twins were the losers because they overpaid for Maeda, but it starts to make a lot more sense when you know Graterol is damaged and will likely be a reliever.

 

[Pia8988]

Highest I've seen the Sox get for a grade is C-, with the consensus generally being a D. How anyone in their right ****ing minds could give them an A or a B+? Yeah, no. That's just some kind of crazy right there. In other news, I want what those guys are on.

Yankee writers?

 

[Gator Mike]

 

[Gator Mike]

Iv'e read a lot of opinions on the trade and most have said the Red Sox as the losers in this.

I'd love to know why someone would feel they get an A? I wish I had teachers in High School who were this generous..

I won't quote, because it's a subscription service, but the writer believes there's a good chance that Verdugo will be a 4-5 WAR player at a low cost for a number of years, and he thinks Graterol has a high ceiling.

 

[Therick67]

I won't quote, because it's a subscription service, but the writer believes there's a good chance that Verdugo will be a 4-5 WAR player at a low cost for a number of years, and he thinks Graterol has a high ceiling.

It very well could happen, but if they don't reach said ceiling...just hard to see an A grade at this point..

 

[Gator Mike]

 

[LSCII]

It very well could happen, but if they don't reach said ceiling...just hard to see an A grade at this point..

Stack rank all the players in the deal, not on future possibilities, but for now in terms of impact in MLB. That tells everyone who the short term winner is. The long term winner may change, but that's all speculative and should not be factored into the conclusion of who won the deal initially.

 

[Gator Mike]

It very well could happen, but if they don't reach said ceiling...just hard to see an A grade at this point..

You could easily make the case that 5 years of control of a 5 WAR player is worth 1 year of a 6-10 WAR player.

 

[N o o d l e s]

Can we talk about the lineup yet?

I was going back and forth on ideas and something like this seems best:

Benintendi
Bogaerts
Devers
Martinez
Verdugo
Moreland/Dalbec
Vazquez
Peraza
Bradley

 

[LSCII]

You could easily make the case that 5 years of control of a 5 WAR player is worth 1 year of a 6-10 WAR player.

But he's not a 5 WAR player. He may become that, but you're doing nothing but projecting. And you're only projecting positives. What happens if he regresses? Is LA going to kick in more if he sucks?

He's had 100 or so games in his career so far. Literally anything is possible. He could be better then Betts. He could be far worse. He could get hit by a bus, FFS. That's why trading known commodities for futures and prospects is a crap shoot. Take off the Red Sox colored glasses for once and be objective. Vedugo is an unknown.

 

[N o o d l e s]

Also saw this on twitter and it makes a ton of sense.

Why doesn’t LAD just kill their deal with LAA and send us Pederson and Stripling also? Sox could then flip Pederson away to LAA.