Prospect Info: 2020 NHL Draft

[Trojans86]

As far as development, this will be an interesting year for the kids because they have way way more time to work on skills, skating and weight lifting and less time playing games and team practices. It could actually help some of them. My kid skates with Ryan Johnson everyday and a bunch of other d1 kids. They just wouldnt have that kind of time working with their skills coaches, skating coaches and strength coaches in their team programs. When with the team they're focusing more on passing, formations, breakouts etc. Just a different focus. Should be interesting to see how this batch of kids does. Absolutely ignorant for that scout to say they wasted a whole year of development.

Btw, Ryan Johnson skates amazingly well. Small guy but so fluid.

 

[Teemu Salami]

Qualitative aka very surface level and no acknowledgment of any of the arguments that disagree with your opinion on Raymond’s SHL play. There’s more details to hockey and it’d be more fun to discuss that...

 

[Rasp]

Honest question, where did you get these quotes? I searched them all and can't find anything that matches them.

Its in the black book. Every prospect has a dozen quotes from scouts on them.

 

[Rasp]

Quinn is quite impressive of going into the dirty areas to score! Reminds me of Perry of going into dirty areas and scoring in many different ways. Because of that, DD has Quinn the #1 rated goal scorer for his top 15. Holtz was #2.

Your description of Holtz reminds of Teemu.

I really like Quinn now I prefer him over Holtz. Has more of a complete game and has improved a huge amount this year. I would happily take him at 6.

 

[cheesymc]

As far as development, this will be an interesting year for the kids because they have way way more time to work on skills, skating and weight lifting and less time playing games and team practices. It could actually help some of them. My kid skates with Ryan Johnson everyday and a bunch of other d1 kids. They just wouldnt have that kind of time working with their skills coaches, skating coaches and strength coaches in their team programs. When with the team they're focusing more on passing, formations, breakouts etc. Just a different focus. Should be interesting to see how this batch of kids does. Absolutely ignorant for that scout to say they wasted a whole year of development.

Btw, Ryan Johnson skates amazingly well. Small guy but so fluid.

I think the players with high IQ, awareness, and natural instincts will not be harmed and it would help them focus and catch up on conditioning. Raw players who have strong tools but need game time experience to hone in consistency like defense, not turning the puck over under pressure, or overall hockey smarts would be the guys losing out on development.

 

[Teemu Salami]

Gathering more and more info on Raymond and Holtz; Advanced Stats, scouts, coaches Interviews are out there with enough looking. Quite like them both so I might do a shitty writeup with sourcing.

 

[Kalv]

Some legit eliteprospect scouting

Patrick Kane
5'10
Late birthday (November 19)
145p in 58 games
14p over next best scorer on the team (they had a very high scoring trio w/ Kostytsin and Gagner)

Marco Rossi
5'9
Late birthday (September 23)
120p in 56 games
30p over next best scorer on the team

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Qualitative aka very surface level and no acknowledgment of any of the arguments that disagree with your opinion on Raymond’s SHL play. There’s more details to hockey and it’d be more fun to discuss that...

SMH... I'm sharing info that other scouting reviews have shared. Raymond's play dropped as the season went. Raymond didn't adapt to the physical play. Raymond would prefer to pass than shoot. Raymond seriously needs to bulk up to play against men. Raymond shows flashes of his elite innate talent, but that's the problem - it was in flashes. Raymond's production between 2018-19 to 2019-20 SuperElit didn't jump out of the arena like Holtz' game, that's a bit concerning because for all this elite talk, Raymond didn't drive the bus like Holtz did. As for the bad interview, that's new info being shared by the Black book.

Just because you don't like the reporting doesn't mean it isn't real. BTW, it isn't my opinion, smh. I didn't make Raymond not produce like Holtz at the SuperElit level. My preference is Holtz over Raymond because of the many different scouting sources pointing to his high motor, his improvement during the season, and his ability to adapt to the men's game of physicality. That means he's a lot closer to making the NHL than Raymond.

Tell me why did NHL Central Scouting EU have Raymond ranked 4th at the end of the season when he was ranked 2nd at mid-season scouting? You can't. Why? Because you're too busy whining and crying about opinions being shared that doesn't fit into the Raymond is the elite prospect at 6th overall. That isn't my opinion, that's the ranking of NHL Central Scouting EU.

An elite prospect goes #1 overall. Raymond needs a lot more time to develop, but he's got elite potential. There's a difference between elite prospect and elite potential. I'm not opposed to drafting Raymond, but I'd rather go with Holtz because you can't teach elite goal scoring, which makes him a lower risk potential. We desperately needs someone who can put the puck in the back of the net on the PP, which will make a significant difference. We have a similar Raymond type player on our team already and his name is Troy Terry. We're still waiting on Terry to make a big splash at the NHL level as he's going into his D+7 year. How long will the Ducks have to wait for Raymond to make the NHL level and stay there effectively?

BTW, on your research, look for Holtz setting up Raymond for a goal when they played together for team Sweden. Just want you to witness Holtz' playmaking ability to break the "he's a one-trick pony" narrative. I'm not saying it's elite, but rather that he has that skill in him.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Here's a Holtz scouting report by Future Scope Hockey. What you should do is scroll to the bottom and look at the many different ways he scores goals with all those short videos. He's actually scored in front of the net, slashing through the high danger zone for a redirect, sniping in a rebound, and scoring from behind the net. Yes, he often scores from outside the high danger zone, but not many players can.

Quinn has a lot of high danger shots, but he's also playing against juniors. Holtz is usually up against men in 2019-20 season, but he's still doing more than just launching it from afar. Against juniors in 2019-20, Holtz put up 7 goals in 3 games, with 2 assists. He got promoted quickly to the SHL club.

 

[Paul4587]

Quinn has a lot of high danger shots, but he's also playing against juniors. Holtz is usually up against men in 2019-20 season, but he's still doing more than just launching it from afar. Against juniors in 2019-20, Holtz put up 7 goals in 3 games, with 2 assists. He got promoted quickly to the SHL club.

Using NHL equivalency rates Quinn’s OHL production actually translates to better NHL production than Holtz’s SHL production - and by quite a bit (I believe it was around 1.5 times the amount but would need to double check). Not the best predictor of future success but it’s one of the tools that can be used to compare production across different leagues.

And I don’t know why you keep harping on about Holtz scoring 7 goals in 3 games as if that sample size means anything. 7 goals in 3 games is outstanding but there’s not a chance he would have kept up that pace. I remember Peter Holland coming into the AHL after juniors and putting up 6 points in 3 games to end the season and everybody declared him the heir apparent to Getzlaf. Goes to show how meaningless small samples are.

 

[Vaakou]

I thought it was commonly known on here but Raymond got mono before the wjc. It had a mayor impact on his development this year. He didn't train for a long period of time and lost alot of muscle because of it. Just saying.
One source: Raymonds kropp specialgranskas efter JVM

 

[JabbaJabba]

I thought it was commonly known on here but Raymond got mono before the wjc. It had a mayor impact on his development this year. He didn't train for a long period of time and lost alot of muscle because of it. Just saying.
One source: Raymonds kropp specialgranskas efter JVM

Good that you mentioned this. I would be fine with picking Raymond at 6th. He won't be playing in the NHL next season, so he will have time to bulk up and get more experience playing against men and dominating in WJC.

Still so long time until the draft, if everything goes according to the plan.

 

[Surfandhockey]

Going to keep it simple .

who would be the best pick for the ducks that has the best overall combination of shot and skating speed ?

raymond , Rossi , Quinn??

 

[Kalv]

I thought it was commonly known on here but Raymond got mono before the wjc. It had a mayor impact on his development this year. He didn't train for a long period of time and lost alot of muscle because of it. Just saying.
One source: Raymonds kropp specialgranskas efter JVM

Did not know that. If so is the case, he might start hot in the new SHL season and shoot up the ranks a bit.

 

[PuckProspects]

Going to keep it simple .

who would be the best pick for the ducks that has the best overall combination of shot and skating speed ?

raymond , Rossi , Quinn??

That combination would be Quinn.

 

[Teemu Salami]

SMH... I'm sharing info that other scouting reviews have shared. Raymond's play dropped as the season went. Raymond didn't adapt to the physical play. Raymond would prefer to pass than shoot. Raymond seriously needs to bulk up to play against men. Raymond shows flashes of his elite innate talent, but that's the problem - it was in flashes. Raymond's production between 2018-19 to 2019-20 SuperElit didn't jump out of the arena like Holtz' game, that's a bit concerning because for all this elite talk, Raymond didn't drive the bus like Holtz did. As for the bad interview, that's new info being shared by the Black book.

Just because you don't like the reporting doesn't mean it isn't real. BTW, it isn't my opinion, smh. I didn't make Raymond not produce like Holtz at the SuperElit level. My preference is Holtz over Raymond because of the many different scouting sources pointing to his high motor, his improvement during the season, and his ability to adapt to the men's game of physicality. That means he's a lot closer to making the NHL than Raymond.

Tell me why did NHL Central Scouting EU have Raymond ranked 4th at the end of the season when he was ranked 2nd at mid-season scouting? You can't. Why? Because you're too busy whining and crying about opinions being shared that doesn't fit into the Raymond is the elite prospect at 6th overall. That isn't my opinion, that's the ranking of NHL Central Scouting EU.

An elite prospect goes #1 overall. Raymond needs a lot more time to develop, but he's got elite potential. There's a difference between elite prospect and elite potential. I'm not opposed to drafting Raymond, but I'd rather go with Holtz because you can't teach elite goal scoring, which makes him a lower risk potential. We desperately needs someone who can put the puck in the back of the net on the PP, which will make a significant difference. We have a similar Raymond type player on our team already and his name is Troy Terry. We're still waiting on Terry to make a big splash at the NHL level as he's going into his D+7 year. How long will the Ducks have to wait for Raymond to make the NHL level and stay there effectively?

BTW, on your research, look for Holtz setting up Raymond for a goal when they played together for team Sweden. Just want you to witness Holtz' playmaking ability to break the "he's a one-trick pony" narrative. I'm not saying it's elite, but rather that he has that skill in him.

You keep missing the points i’m making thinking i’m missing the points you’re making. Or we disagree. Either way i’m doing research because it’s fun, and i’ve ALREADY said Holtz isn’t a one trick pony for god’s sake.

 

[Teemu Salami]

I thought it was commonly known on here but Raymond got mono before the wjc. It had a mayor impact on his development this year. He didn't train for a long period of time and lost alot of muscle because of it. Just saying.
One source: Raymonds kropp specialgranskas efter JVM

This is one of the things I found. His participation was completely up in the air. He was 16 games into the SHL.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Using NHL equivalency rates Quinn’s OHL production actually translates to better NHL production than Holtz’s SHL production - and by quite a bit (I believe it was around 1.5 times the amount but would need to double check). Not the best predictor of future success but it’s one of the tools that can be used to compare production across different leagues.

And I don’t know why you keep harping on about Holtz scoring 7 goals in 3 games as if that sample size means anything. 7 goals in 3 games is outstanding but there’s not a chance he would have kept up that pace. I remember Peter Holland coming into the AHL after juniors and putting up 6 points in 3 games to end the season and everybody declared him the heir apparent to Getzlaf. Goes to show how meaningless small samples are.

It's difficult to translate because one is playing against peers and the other is against men. So I point to Holtz' short stay.

SuperElit, 2018

Raymond: 37 games, 13 goals + 35 assists = 48 points (1.29 ppg)
Holtz: 38 games, 30 goals + 17 assists = 47 points (1.23 ppg)​

SuperElit, 2019

Raymond: 9 games, 3 goals + 11 assists = 14 points (1.5 ppg)
Holtz: 3 games, 7 goals + 2 assists = 9 points (3.0 ppg)​

Holtz scored 30 goals in 2018 (D-1). He improved his scoring rate the year after, but on a short sample. Apparently, he was too good too early into the SuperElit season. You're gonna ding him for that because of Peter Holland? Also, did you compared Holland's 6 points in 3 games to Holtz 7 goals (9 points) in 3 games? Is that even a fair comparison, especially when you're alluding him to Getzlaf? Welp, it's a good thing Holtz did this at the beginning of the season to be promoted to the SHL.

Anyhow, it's funny how you keep degrading Holtz' production than accept his production, especially when compared to with Raymond's production at the same level. Nope, gotta bring up a non-related comparison to Holland.

SHL (against men), 2019

Raymond: 33 games, 4 goals + 6 assists = 10 points (0.30 ppg)
Holtz: 35 games, 9 goals + 7 assists = 16 points (0.45 ppg)​

Holtz finished tied for 5th in goal scoring on his SHL team, with the highest goal scorer at 17 goals with an additional 14 games played. He also finished 10th in points with 16 points, representing 11.6% towards the team's GF scoring. It's a bit more difficult to score against men, but it didn't stop Holtz from scoring goals. Which is why I say it's unfortunate that we couldn't see what Holtz would have accomplished if he stayed there all season or 14 games like Raymond.

I'm showing a pattern that Holtz not just score goals, but improves on his goal scoring. That's why everyone calls him an elite goal scorer because he meets or exceeds the expectations.

It's because of that known pattern of goal scoring for Holtz is why he's often ranked higher than Quinn. What Quinn did this year was amazing! But his goal scoring also came out of nowhere, which is why he's rated behind Holtz. Holtz didn't have a chance at a whole second season against J20 competition at the SuperElit level like Quinn had in juniors. Instead, Holtz goes with an equivalent from juniors to the NHL level jump and still produces, finishing 5th in goal scoring playing far fewer games. Nope, no love? But mos def love for Raymond. LoL

oh the hypocrisy. It's like Dostal not being a top goaltending prospect b/c he's not preferred by Mr. Wheeler.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Going to keep it simple .

who would be the best pick for the ducks that has the best overall combination of shot and skating speed ?

raymond , Rossi , Quinn??

Id be happy with any of the 3

But if I had to rank them
Raymond > Rossi > Quinn > holtz

I do think the difference between the 4 players right now is pretty small. Oh I didn't see the shot part factored in, those ranks were more or less overall skill/potential. I really don't no how id rank em shot/speed... but I feel like just looking at those stats highly benefits Quinn/Holtz.

I see Raymond/Rossi as more of playmaker complete players... I see quinn and holtz more of snipers.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

It's difficult to translate because one is playing against peers and the other is against men. So I point to Holtz' short stay.

SuperElit, 2018

Raymond: 37 games, 13 goals + 35 assists = 48 points (1.29 ppg)
Holtz: 38 games, 30 goals + 17 assists = 47 points (1.23 ppg)​

SuperElit, 2019

Raymond: 9 games, 3 goals + 11 assists = 14 points (1.5 ppg)
Holtz: 3 games, 7 goals + 2 assists = 9 points (3.0 ppg)​

Holtz scored 30 goals in 2018 (D-1). He improved his scoring rate the year after, but on a short sample. Apparently, he was too good too early into the SuperElit season. You're gonna ding him for that because of Peter Holland? Also, did you compared Holland's 6 points in 3 games to Holtz 7 goals (9 points) in 3 games? Is that even a fair comparison, especially when you're alluding him to Getzlaf? Welp, it's a good thing Holtz did this at the beginning of the season to be promoted to the SHL.

Anyhow, it's funny how you keep degrading Holtz' production than accept his production, especially when compared to with Raymond's production at the same level. Nope, gotta bring up a non-related comparison to Holland.

SHL (against men), 2019

Raymond: 33 games, 4 goals + 6 assists = 10 points (0.30 ppg)
Holtz: 35 games, 9 goals + 7 assists = 16 points (0.45 ppg)​

Holtz finished tied for 5th in goal scoring on his SHL team, with the highest goal scorer at 17 goals with an additional 14 games played. He also finished 10th in points with 16 points, representing 11.6% towards the team's GF scoring. It's a bit more difficult to score against men, but it didn't stop Holtz from scoring goals. Which is why I say it's unfortunate that we couldn't see what Holtz would have accomplished if he stayed there all season or 14 games like Raymond.

I'm showing a pattern that Holtz not just score goals, but improves on his goal scoring. That's why everyone calls him an elite goal scorer because he meets or exceeds the expectations.

It's because of that known pattern of goal scoring for Holtz is why he's often ranked higher than Quinn. What Quinn did this year was amazing! But his goal scoring also came out of nowhere, which is why he's rated behind Holtz. Holtz didn't have a chance at a whole second season against J20 competition at the SuperElit level like Quinn had in juniors. Instead, Holtz goes with an equivalent from juniors to the NHL level jump and still produces, finishing 5th in goal scoring playing far fewer games. Nope, no love? But mos def love for Raymond. LoL

oh the hypocrisy. It's like Dostal not being a top goaltending prospect b/c he's not preferred by Mr. Wheeler.

Lol talk about hypocrisy. An innocent statement like "I don't understand how anyone could rank someone second other than Byfield" triggers a complete hissy fit - but you clearly can't understand how anyone could rank Raymond ahead of Holtz and feel the need to spam the same bloated essay each time it comes up.

You're not changing anyone's mind by posting the same thing over and over. There's a Raymond vs Holtz thread on the main board if you really feel the need to keep repeating yourself.

 

[Surfandhockey]

Id be happy with any of the 3

But if I had to rank them
Raymond > Rossi > Quinn > holtz

I do think the difference between the 4 players right now is pretty small. Oh I didn't see the shot part factored in, those ranks were more or less overall skill/potential. I really don't no how id rank em shot/speed... but I feel like just looking at those stats highly benefits Quinn/Holtz.

I see Raymond/Rossi as more of playmaker complete players... I see quinn and holtz more of snipers.

after seeing video , Quinn is enticing . Is Holtz skating really that big of an issue?

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

after seeing video , Quinn is enticing . Is Holtz skating really that big of an issue?

I don't think so... but compared to rossi/Raymond hed be the lesser.

 

[Paul4587]

after seeing video , Quinn is enticing . Is Holtz skating really that big of an issue?

It’s around average, not a glaring weakness but certainly far from a strength.

 

[bsu]

There is no post with advanced stats anyone could post that would make me think Holtz is the #6 best player in this draft. If we pick em I will support him obviously and hope he succeeds either way but yeah... No.

 

[MMC]

God I hope we get that 3rd first rounder. Rakell and Manson should both be shopped heavily before the draft.