Prospect Info: 2020 NHL Draft Thread: Part Deux

[Frk It]

I know I have heard from a few people Holtz and Quinn have the best shots in this class.

Maybe. I’d probably put Perrault up there too.

I’ll tell you I think Perfetti and Raymond may score more goals because of how quick they can get their shot off and the dual threat of being a great passer.

I really could see Perfetti being like the New Jersey iteration of Parise if he hits on his potential at the next level. His release is pretty unreal.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Maybe. I’d probably put Perrault up there too.

I’ll tell you I think Perfetti and Raymond may score more goals because of how quick they can get their shot off and the dual threat of being a great passer.

I really could see Perfetti being like the New Jersey iteration of Parise if he hits on his potential at the next level. His release is pretty unreal.

My guess is once he starts shooting more three or four years into his career like most pass first centers that Byfield will hold that distinction in terms of the best goal scorer but time will tell. Malkin and Drasaitl the two players he reminds me of most took a couple years to really embrace shooting more but the gift was there and it is how I feel about Byfield's tools.

I think Raymond probably is the second best long-term but he reminds me a ton of Pasta when I watch him so maybe that is why I believe he will be a big goal scorer and he might actually stay more of a playmaker. Still have him at #3/4 on my board.

 

[Hen Kolland]

My guess is once he starts shooting more three or four years into his career like most pass first centers that Byfield will hold that distinction in terms of the best goal scorer but time will tell. Malkin and Drasaitl the two players he reminds me of most took a couple years to really embrace shooting more but the gift was there and it is how I feel about Byfield's tools.

I think Raymond probably is the second best long-term but he reminds me a ton of Pasta when I watch him so maybe that is why I believe he will be a big goal scorer and he might actually stay more of a playmaker. Still have him at #3/4 on my board.

Safe to assume you have Lafreniere, Byfield, Raymond and Stutzle as the top 4? Or do you have Drysdale in place of Stutzle?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Safe to assume you have Lafreniere, Byfield, Raymond and Stutzle as the top 4? Or do you have Drysdale in place of Stutzle?

I have Stutzle there now, I like Drysdale but have slid him to 5 and Askarov is #6 for me.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I have Stutzle there now, I like Drysdale but have slid him to 5 and Askarov is #6 for me.

I think this is the first time where I kind of feel open to all possibilities, minus a noted few. I do have my preferences of 3 players I like more than others, so obviously that would make me happy to see, but in general I’ve come to grips with how grim our outlook at this point to where literally any position, any skill set, any timeline is acceptable...with a few exceptions.

I like Askarov as a prospect, but I personally would be gutted if we picked him at 4. I don’t think he’s a lottery pick consideration, and if we really contemplate him at 4, I’d prefer to just trade back if possible. And then Lundell, because I still don’t see a 1C and I don’t see a high end 2C.

But yeah, I have Lafreniere, Raymond, and Byfield at the top of my wish list. But beyond that, there’s a lot of very good prospects I can buy into for a variety of reasons. I don’t think it would be possible for me to come away upset if they took one of my top 3, or Drysdale, Stutzle, Rossi, Perfetti, or Holtz. There’s enough there in all of them to get excited about. I just hope we take a calculated risk at the best chance at acquiring an elite talent.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I think the list favours hockey IQ and skill (referring to shot, hands, and passing). It's not as though Stutzle is in bad company on this list- he's a great player and prospect, but I think his best attributes are skating and compete level. If Stutzle is comparable to the other prospects because of his skating, then it makes sense he's ranked the lowest if you subtract skating. The general consensus among scouts is that Holtz has the best shot and Lafreniere has the best hands.
That being said I have Stutzle 3rd on my board because I think his speed and compete level work well with the rest of our core.

Rating "skill" and IQ in a vacum (which is limited as Pronman admits to the types of plays a player is capable of making - which really isn't hockey IQ but that is a different discussion for a different day) really isn't all that telling. The skill needs to translate to effectiveness and skating, compete and size have a massive impact on a player's effectiveness. I personally think you are right to have Stutzle at 3rd. The other issue with a simple ranking is that it does not tell you much about the differences in IQ and skill. If Raymond is only marginally more skilled than Stutzle does it really matter? The differences need to be large and need to impact projectability in my book.

On draft day I thought that Sonny Milano was much more skilled than Larkin. I think we all know, however, who the better player is.

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

I think this is the first time where I kind of feel open to all possibilities, minus a noted few. I do have my preferences of 3 players I like more than others, so obviously that would make me happy to see, but in general I’ve come to grips with how grim our outlook at this point to where literally any position, any skill set, any timeline is acceptable...with a few exceptions.

I like Askarov as a prospect, but I personally would be gutted if we picked him at 4. I don’t think he’s a lottery pick consideration, and if we really contemplate him at 4, I’d prefer to just trade back if possible. And then Lundell, because I still don’t see a 1C and I don’t see a high end 2C.

But yeah, I have Lafreniere, Raymond, and Byfield at the top of my wish list. But beyond that, there’s a lot of very good prospects I can buy into for a variety of reasons. I don’t think it would be possible for me to come away upset if they took one of my top 3, or Drysdale, Stutzle, Rossi, Perfetti, or Holtz. There’s enough there in all of them to get excited about. I just hope we take a calculated risk at the best chance at acquiring an elite talent.

That's exactly how I feel as well. I think everyone has their preference for someone at 3 or 4, but I think this year everyone offers a good mix of upside and are all intriguing in their own way. I think this can even be extended further to #32 as I could see there being upwards of 5+ guys that would be good picks in that spot. I think we should be able to exit the draft with some great talent this season especially if some of the mock drafts and ISS rankings are somewhat accurate of NHL teams approach to the draft.

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

...

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

...

 

[Frk It]

 

[Vector Cereal]

Rating "skill" and IQ in a vacum (which is limited as Pronman admits to the types of plays a player is capable of making - which really isn't hockey IQ but that is a different discussion for a different day) really isn't all that telling. The skill needs to translate to effectiveness and skating, compete and size have a massive impact on a player's effectiveness. I personally think you are right to have Stutzle at 3rd. The other issue with a simple ranking is that it does not tell you much about the differences in IQ and skill. If Raymond is only marginally more skilled than Stutzle does it really matter? The differences need to be large and need to impact projectability in my book.

On draft day I thought that Sonny Milano was much more skilled than Larkin. I think we all know, however, who the better player is.

Yeah absolutely not a great measure. But I think it's useful insight when a lot of people are questioning Byfield's IQ. The difference between him and Stutzle on that list could be insignificant, but if there's no gap in IQ and skill between them and Byfield has size and age on his side, then I think Byfield is the obvious choice at #2.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Pronman held a Q&A on the athletic today and in response to a question he ranked the top forwards in terms of pure skill and IQ while trying to ignore skating, size, and compete. His order was Lafreniere>Raymond>Perfetti>Holtz>Byfield>Rossi>Stutzle

It's only one scout's opinion, but I like Pronman's work.

I don't understand Pronman at all. Every time I think there's a player he would really like (skilled, flashy, good skater, high IQ), he doesn't really like that player. He's the scouting equivalent of a picky eater.

I think Stutzle is way too low there. There's no way Perfetti and Holtz are more purely skilled than Stutzle, IMO. Raymond... I dunno. I feel like Raymond is getting a lot of extra credit this year because of how good he's been internationally in previous years. I haven't watched him a lot this year, but he hasn't played the same type of game at the men's level. Not that you really can. Which is a feather in the cap for Holtz and Stutzle: It's harder to look flashy and skilled when you're playing against pros. Guys can actually take the puck away. The fact that these guys look as good as they do is more impressive than they get credit for.

And while we're at it, there's no way Perfetti* and Holtz are more skilled than Byfield. That should be the next red flag, right after ranking Stutzle 7th in pure skill.

*which I know is a controversial opinion, but I've just never been that impressed in the times I've seen him.

 

[Henkka]

Yeah absolutely not a great measure. But I think it's useful insight when a lot of people are questioning Byfield's IQ. The difference between him and Stutzle on that list could be insignificant, but if there's no gap in IQ and skill between them and Byfield has size and age on his side, then I think Byfield is the obvious choice at #2.

This is exactly also my thoughts on this case.

 

[19 for president]

My preference is 1. Laf 2. Stuzzle 3. Byfield 4. Drysdale. You can't pass on the gen talent, you hope for one of the two potential centers if you can't have him, and settle for the best dman in the draft because you win with defense.

I'd be pretty annoyed if they draft Askarov, but that's simply because I don't believe in building around goalies. Even elite goalies have downer years and in a cap era it costs too much to keep an elite goalie on the roster. You are better off investing in a good goalie and great defense. I mean in the past 10 years only Lundquist (up until his recent decline with age) & Price have been consistently great. I think you can argue that the last truly elite goalie (at the time) to win the cup was Brodeur. Hasek was well past his prime, and I don't really consider Quick or Thomas to be at that level consistently. Askarov could be the best goalie to come out of the draft since Price, but spending big bucks on a goalie just doesn't make sense.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I don't understand Pronman at all. Every time I think there's a player he would really like (skilled, flashy, good skater, high IQ), he doesn't really like that player. He's the scouting equivalent of a picky eater.

I think Stutzle is way too low there. There's no way Perfetti and Holtz are more purely skilled than Stutzle, IMO. Raymond... I dunno. I feel like Raymond is getting a lot of extra credit this year because of how good he's been internationally in previous years. I haven't watched him a lot this year, but he hasn't played the same type of game at the men's level. Not that you really can. Which is a feather in the cap for Holtz and Stutzle: It's harder to look flashy and skilled when you're playing against pros. Guys can actually take the puck away. The fact that these guys look as good as they do is more impressive than they get credit for.

And while we're at it, there's no way Perfetti* and Holtz are more skilled than Byfield. That should be the next red flag, right after ranking Stutzle 7th in pure skill.

*which I know is a controversial opinion, but I've just never been that impressed in the times I've seen him.

I don’t know about that; my top 3 in the overall skill/IQ department that I believe Pronman was addressing in no particular order are Lafreniere, Raymond, and Perfetti.

They are really something special to watch. Where Byfield leaves something to be desired in this type of dynamism, he makes up for with his physical and athletic gifts that takes his skill and IQ to another level when paired together. In the debate of pure skill, I don’t think he’s on quite the same level.

And for Stutzle, he has a lot of wild stallion in his game. I myself have watched him and thought his flash is more a product of how fast he is physically moving, not the way his skill jumps off the screen. That being said, Pronman’s bottom 3 were Byfield, Rossi, and Stutzle, and for those three, you could argue their best attributes are NOT their skill level, and he was intentionally removing size, skating, compete from the discussion. You have three players who are a little more well versed while players like Raymond and Perfetti who are more offensive specialists (and skill based players) rose to the top.

If those players are the bottom could compete based on skill and IQ with the best of the top 10, this top of the draft would have a much different tier breakdown than it does presently.

 

[Killerjas]

One of the most interesting Boom or Bust players in the draft. I have him going mid 2nd but could drop lower.

 

[Frk It]

I dunno. I feel like Raymond is getting a lot of extra credit this year because of how good he's been internationally in previous years. I haven't watched him a lot this year, but he hasn't played the same type of game at the men's level. Not that you really can. Which is a feather in the cap for Holtz and Stutzle: It's harder to look flashy and skilled when you're playing against pros. Guys can actually take the puck away. The fact that these guys look as good as they do is more impressive than they get credit for.

Situation matters (a ton).

9:48 -- that is what Lucas Raymond was given per night in the SHL this year by Frolunda... not sure what you are expecting to see from him with that kind of ice time.

Getting credit for what he did internationally in past seasons? I thought he looked pretty damn good at the WJC this season for a 17 year old playing in a U20 tournament. I liked him more than both Stutzle and Holtz in that tournament, personally.

I could see Raymond producing and being given a bigger role if he was in the DEL as opposed to the SHL. I also could have seen a different SHL team giving him a bigger role. But for whatever reason, he didn't get any of that this year. I do also think he is a good bit behind as far as physical development, as opposed to Holtz and Stutzle. Those guys are listed at 183-187 lbs, whereas Raymond is listed at 165 lbs. So yeah, they can probably do more in a pro league now. But I'm personally of the opinion that once Raymond catches up physically, he will pass both.

 

[Shaman464]

Right now my top of the draft card is anyone but Byfield. A 6'4'' 220 pound kid in the CHL is a massive red flag for me. There is no denying that kind of physical advantage confers a competitive advantage. And while you can't teach size, its also hard to unteach bad habits people get into because they have a physical advantage.

 

[newfy]

Right now my top of the draft card is anyone but Byfield. A 6'4'' 220 pound kid in the CHL is a massive red flag for me. There is no denying that kind of physical advantage confers a competitive advantage. And while you can't teach size, its also hard to unteach bad habits people get into because they have a physical advantage.

You know where else that size is still an advantage? The NHL. How many forwards are there in the league that are 6'4? Maybe 30, 1ish per team. How many forwards are there at 6'4 that can skate like he can? 10, if that?

Hes 17, hes not done filling out at all. Hes going to have a ridiculous advantage over 95% of NHLers as well. No he wont put up 2 points a game like his advantage is allowing him now but its still a massive advantage lol

 

[Frk It]

Right now my top of the draft card is anyone but Byfield. A 6'4'' 220 pound kid in the CHL is a massive red flag for me. There is no denying that kind of physical advantage confers a competitive advantage. And while you can't teach size, its also hard to unteach bad habits people get into because they have a physical advantage.

What bad habits does he have? Being big is a red flag? Unless you can elaborate more, this is pretty painful.

 

[19 for president]

You know where else that size is still an advantage? The NHL. How many forwards are there in the league that are 6'4? Maybe 30, 1ish per team. How many forwards are there at 6'4 that can skate like he can? 10, if that?

Hes 17, hes not done filling out at all. Hes going to have a ridiculous advantage over 95% of NHLers as well. No he wont put up 2 points a game like his advantage is allowing him now but its still a massive advantage lol

Yeah 6'4 is still an advantage in the NHL. Look no further than one Anthony Mantha, who also did some dominating at the lower levels partially due to his size/ reach. Now if you think he doesn't have the tools to match that size unlike a guy like Mantha then you have to evaluate that. With that said bigger guys quite often take longer to develop, and he is on the young side. So if you expecting him to jump into the lineup right away maybe he isn't the best pick.

What I do hate is that he'd have to go back to Juniors. This is where I think the system really fails guys like him and Ras. They should be in a league like the AHL where they can learn to play against guys closer to their size, but obviously not be quite at the NHL level yet. What doesn't make sense to me is that he could go play pro in Europe but isn't allowed in the AHL.

 

[Shaman464]

What bad habits does he have? Being big is a red flag? Unless you can elaborate more, this is pretty painful.

The biggest one is he cherry picks around the goal a lot. Its easy to have time and space in front of the net when you're massive. When you're playing against NHL level defenders you're not going to get that time and space unless you earn it. And watching him he doesn't, he can park himself there and get the garbage goals. And that's also why being big is a red flag. Being the biggest dude on the ice give you advantages. But, there are a ton of big dudes that don't have skill sets that translate to the NHL. Look at Ras, he's had a hell of a time figuring it out. And I am not saying Byfield is going to be a bad player, but I think his actual skill set isn't top 3. I think his translation to the NHL will be rockier than other players in the top 5-8. And I think a lot of that is because he will need to learn that just being big doesn't get you that far in the NHL.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Right now my top of the draft card is anyone but Byfield. A 6'4'' 220 pound kid in the CHL is a massive red flag for me. There is no denying that kind of physical advantage confers a competitive advantage. And while you can't teach size, its also hard to unteach bad habits people get into because they have a physical advantage.

So we shouldn't draft large CHL players unless they play small? I fully appreciate that you have a lot more pressing things to do right now than to watch NHL prospects, but you really need to give this one some more thought.

 

[Shaman464]

So we shouldn't draft large CHL players unless they play small? I fully appreciate that you have a lot more pressing things to do right now than to watch NHL prospects, but you really need to give this one some more thought.

I've watched him a bit over the season, and I saw a lot of goals that I don't think he could score in the NHL, that were directly because CHL level defenders can't overcome the size advantage. When it comes to big guys, I tend to want to see not "playing like small guys" but to see that most of their points aren't coming from doing things that are likely because of physical advantages, not skill/IQ advantages.

 

[Frk It]

The biggest one is he cherry picks around the goal a lot. Its easy to have time and space in front of the net when you're massive. When you're playing against NHL level defenders you're not going to get that time and space unless you earn it. And watching him he doesn't, he can park himself there and get the garbage goals. And that's also why being big is a red flag. Being the biggest dude on the ice give you advantages. But, there are a ton of big dudes that don't have skill sets that translate to the NHL. Look at Ras, he's had a hell of a time figuring it out. And I am not saying Byfield is going to be a bad player, but I think his actual skill set isn't top 3. I think his translation to the NHL will be rockier than other players in the top 5-8. And I think a lot of that is because he will need to learn that just being big doesn't get you that far in the NHL.

Parks in front of the net and stands there? Similar to Rasmussen? Can’t say I’d agree with any of that.

We are talking about a kid who put up 50 assists in 45 games this year at 17 years old. Rasmussen put up 28 assists in 47 games in his +1 season... at 18/19 years old.

Kid is a great passer with great vision. Not a guy who parks in front of the net. Literally no clue where you are coming from there.