Who said anything about needing top 5 picks to get good d-men? The post was about drafting them, not position.
Prospect Info: 2020 NHL Draft - part II
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Who said anything about needing top 5 picks to get good d-men? The post was about drafting them, not position.
I inferred it since when I hear this comment I think people are thinking of Makar, Heiskanen, Dahlin, Hughes (7th but close to top 5), Byram, etc.
I think Blackjack does make a valid point. Sometimes a young defender will change teams. Of course it is rare and probably requires a bit of luck on timing and a valuable payout. I think the way to look at it is the only way to get a good defender for minimal cost is the draft.
I mean Brannstrom moved for Stone but that was a bit unusual as a sign and trade. Does Palms return a legit top four prospect on d right now? Maybe but you are also robbing Peter to pay Paul as the saying goes. Who plays RW1 if Palms is traded? Gusev maybe but he’s got to be extended also and probably at a premium that doesn’t align with the core players. It’s tricky and I don’t claim to have the right answer other than noting that Sakic is gutless.
Maybe COL gets lucky but the idea that they are still building is silly. Their window is open and who knows how many good runs they get yet Sakic is still trying to only offer the Shero special in trades.
- Dec 20, 2018
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Sort of? Girard was in the Duchene trade and Nashville got Turris in their worst spare defenseman for a disappointing center swap. TB got Serge for Druin. DeAngelo was the troubled reclamation project part of a return for two NHLers. Return for a 24 yo McDonough always seemed underwhelming but the Rangers got quantity over quality there and multiple top picks/prospects. Both Hamilton in his second trade and Burns were older and major pieces were involved.
The point is I don’t see the equivalent to a 1st or even a 1st plus Bratt or such. The Bruins traded Hamilton strictly for futures in draft day trade and, yes, if someone wants to trade a 21 yo defenseman who had 40+ points for picks then the new GM should get in on that. I’m open to trading for defense, especially if it only costs our lowest 1st, but they shouldn’t force it out of desperation. Maybe I’m underestimating what will shake loose because of the expansion draft.
Alex NJD
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I mean the trade for Girard saw Colorado give up a former #3 overall, same with the Sergachev trade. McDonaugh for a 1st a former 1st. The first Hamilton trade involved 1 1st and 2nds in the draft of the decade. The 2nd trade included a dman drafted #5. Karlsson trade involved a a 1st. Burns for 1st and 2 former 1st rounders. Yes you don't need to draft top dmen but you're going to need 1st round picks to get them anyways.
FA is a crapshoot, the only good FA dman signing of the past few years is probably Yandle, even Niskanen became a cap dump
HischierSeDgewOrk
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No, not anymore. I'm sold on Mac. He's our guy moving forward, and super young. 1b goalies can be found in market imo, and that is assuming we don't find one accidentally just from spending late picks on goalies every year.
beekay414
#FireEveryone
No, not with the forward talent that's most definitely going to be available. Use the Boston 4th to take another goalie prospect. As @Forge said, Mac is the real deal. We don't need to invest highly in a goalie at this point. Go find a 1B in free agency and we're fine in goal.
Yeah, it's impossible for me to bypass the depth up front for a goalie. Just can't do it. A pick between 10-12 could seriously be a super talented guy who slips. People could get concerned over Rossi's size. Lundell's offensive upside. Etc, etc.
That's going to be a damn good prospect in that range
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Devil made me do it
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I have seen enough highlights on Askarov and I'm convinced this kid has franchise goalie potential. He plays with such poise and confidence, rarely gives up a bad goal. Blackwood is decent but he will never be a franchise goalie. It's worth taking the risk imo. Askarov will never be a bust so the worst we can do is have another goalie on or near Blackwood's level. At best we have the next great goalie of the future.
beekay414
#FireEveryone
Yep. Assuming the 10-12 range that he suggested, I can't see myself passing up any of the available forwards. Especially if Mysak or Quinn are still OTB.
Devil made me do it
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Drafting Byfield or Rossi makes ZERO sense. They are both Cs and we have no need at the C position. I like Rossi's game but he does not fit in. We need Defense and scoring Wingers. Ty Smith is our best defensive prospect. That's really bad. We need to urgently upgrade our D with elite talent.
beekay414
#FireEveryone
What kind of take is this even? As STI has pointed out SEVERAL times, you can always move players off the dot. Byfield moves Hughes to winger and that's not a bad idea whatsoever. Rossi can easily be moved to wing and, newsflash, he's a scorer.
What do you expect us to do? Overdraft defense just because we supposedly need it? Yeah, that's a great idea. Superb.
You take the talent where and when you can get it. This draft is loaded with forward talent, on the dot and off it. Reaching for a non-Drysdale dman makes zero sense. Passing on Byfield or Rossi makes ZERO sense. lol you have some of the worst takes I've ever seen.
Devil made me do it
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You just defeated your own argument. You don't agree that we should overstock on Defense but are ok with overstocking on Cs who you can later move to the Wing? Now that's a brilliant take.
You draft players that naturally fit our positions of need. Logic is to always draft best player available. But if they don't fit, you draft best available on the position of need. And even more so you take chances in guys like Askarov who have superstar potential. Your approach is irrationally conservative and shortsighted.
You draft players that naturally fit our positions of need. Logic is to always draft best player available. But if they don't fit, you draft best available on the position of need. And even more so you take chances in guys like Askarov who have superstar potential. Your approach is irrationally conservative and shortsighted.
beekay414
#FireEveryone
lol shortsighted is approaching the draft with a lean for taking positions of need. That's shortsighted.
How are we overstocked at C?????? We have Nico and Jack right now. That's literally two players. We certainly don't have anybody of note in the system at C either. You have no clue what the hell you're talking about. You want to pass on top 6 talent for a friggin' goalie. A goalie that's been struggling in his draft year. Yeah, sure, let's do that.
We literally just took 4 defenseman in the 2019 draft, including 3 in the top 82 picks. Reaching for a D in the first round when it's loaded at forward is just stupid. You don't draft for need. That's how you end up with Pavel Zacha instead of Ivan Provorov or Zach Werenski.
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beekay414
#FireEveryone
We also drafted with a focus on scoring wingers in 2019 (Clarke, Thompson) and acquired another in the Coleman trade (Foote). Your idea that we need to draft for current need is stupid. You draft talent that fits throughout the draft but AT THE VERY TOP you take BPA. It's truly that simple. You don't pass on Byfield because we need a #1 D more. That's colossally stupid.
Devil made me do it
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After LaFreniere, the talent gap between prospects in the top 20 is very narrow.
A guy like Drysdale could very well go before Byfield who I think is overhyped. In this instance, the Devils take Drysdale and not a guy who happens to be ranked slightly higher. The small gap in talent level isn't enough to prevent us from drafting position of need. The only way we take BPA is if the talent gap was significant.
A guy like Drysdale could very well go before Byfield who I think is overhyped. In this instance, the Devils take Drysdale and not a guy who happens to be ranked slightly higher. The small gap in talent level isn't enough to prevent us from drafting position of need. The only way we take BPA is if the talent gap was significant.
Sounds like a lot of people here talk about BPA, but can't actually keep positional needs out of their evaluation. I am at fault myself with this kind of thinking, as I always have the potential role of the drafted player in mind. I try to better my approach by adding expected development time and therefore I don't see any player in this draft, who actually covers the current biggest roster need: Top4 LHD short/mid term. I think mid or at least long term the Devils have covered that need with their current prospect pipeline, which is rich in quality, quantity and variety. The Devils should only add to this in 2020 draft in a clear case of BPA.
RHD pipeline is bare with Jacobs, Walsh and McCarthy. There might be not a single NHL player and only Severson looks like a mid/long term roster piece and he is still widely inconsistent. If you don't care about handiness the rich left side could cover for it. But I would emphasis RHD in the next two to three drafts in case of similarly rated prospects.
Goalie is a crap shot, as you never know, what you get. Still highly drafted goalies turn out in general better, than lower rated goalies, but the surprises - positive and negative - are more common. MBW was a second round draft pick and he is like a unicorn in the Devils organisation. I liked the approach of Shero to draft one goalie every year, even if it is only a late round pick. But every 5 to 6 years a team should invest a pick in the first three rounds into a higher regarded goalie prospect to improve the odds of adding a future starter. MBW looks great today. But year to year goalies performance can widely fluctuate. Also the time a goalie holds up as the starter 6+ years are incredibly rare. Injuries and cold streaks to their starters often take out contenders out of the SC race early. I consider platoons of equally regarded goalies a much more resilient strategy. Therefore I wouldn't be against drafting Askarov with the Phoenix or Vancouver pick, if the scouting department holds him in such a high regard. If they like an other goalie better, which should be available in the second round moving back into the second and adding assets, would also be fine with me.
NJ has plenty of forward talent acquired in the last few drafts and the emphasis was clearly more on the skating and puck possession types. There are less shoot first players in the prospect pool, which makes the addition of Foote even a better fit. I also would like the team to add a few C prospects with size, which offer more of a North South grinding type of game. Neither Zacha, nor Mcleod are currently excelling in that role. Hischier potentially could fill that role, but I wouldn't be happy, if he ends up as just that. Size, shooting, driving to the net are ingredients, which I mainly like to be addressed with the forwards picked in the 2020 draft.
My wish list for the three first round picks are one RHD, a forward with size, who can score goals and doesn't shy away from contact. The third pick could be more of the same, invested in goalie or used in a trade for more picks in the second and third round or roster help at LHD.
RHD pipeline is bare with Jacobs, Walsh and McCarthy. There might be not a single NHL player and only Severson looks like a mid/long term roster piece and he is still widely inconsistent. If you don't care about handiness the rich left side could cover for it. But I would emphasis RHD in the next two to three drafts in case of similarly rated prospects.
Goalie is a crap shot, as you never know, what you get. Still highly drafted goalies turn out in general better, than lower rated goalies, but the surprises - positive and negative - are more common. MBW was a second round draft pick and he is like a unicorn in the Devils organisation. I liked the approach of Shero to draft one goalie every year, even if it is only a late round pick. But every 5 to 6 years a team should invest a pick in the first three rounds into a higher regarded goalie prospect to improve the odds of adding a future starter. MBW looks great today. But year to year goalies performance can widely fluctuate. Also the time a goalie holds up as the starter 6+ years are incredibly rare. Injuries and cold streaks to their starters often take out contenders out of the SC race early. I consider platoons of equally regarded goalies a much more resilient strategy. Therefore I wouldn't be against drafting Askarov with the Phoenix or Vancouver pick, if the scouting department holds him in such a high regard. If they like an other goalie better, which should be available in the second round moving back into the second and adding assets, would also be fine with me.
NJ has plenty of forward talent acquired in the last few drafts and the emphasis was clearly more on the skating and puck possession types. There are less shoot first players in the prospect pool, which makes the addition of Foote even a better fit. I also would like the team to add a few C prospects with size, which offer more of a North South grinding type of game. Neither Zacha, nor Mcleod are currently excelling in that role. Hischier potentially could fill that role, but I wouldn't be happy, if he ends up as just that. Size, shooting, driving to the net are ingredients, which I mainly like to be addressed with the forwards picked in the 2020 draft.
My wish list for the three first round picks are one RHD, a forward with size, who can score goals and doesn't shy away from contact. The third pick could be more of the same, invested in goalie or used in a trade for more picks in the second and third round or roster help at LHD.
NJ DevLolz
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Devils are so far away that they need to just go BPA with each first rounder
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There is a 6 year age difference between Askarov and Blackwood. Quite possible when Askarov is ready, Blackwood could be heading to UFA. We need much better goaltending, if he is available at Arizona pick, I would definitely consider drafting him.
Unknown Caller
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Always BPA. Always. In 2015, nobody wanted to hear about Provorov, Werenski, Chabot, etc. because we were apparently set defensively and desperately needed forwards. Needs change way faster than these guys get to the league. You always pick the highest player on your board in the first round.
Drafting Askarov is an investment for 5+ years down the road. Blackwood's current age, health and performance has no impact on this decision.
AfroThunder396
[citation needed]
You take the BPA and move on. If that means 3 centers in the first round, you do it. Depth wins championships and if you really want to you can make other guys expendable for a profit.
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