NHL Entry Draft 2020 NHL Draft Discussion - PART VI

[DrakeAndJosh]

On 31 thoughts, Elliotte Friedman said he thinks the draft will probably happen in late June and there seems to be more teams who are fine with it or indifferent than there are who are fully against it.

He thinks (his opinion only) that the BoG might just agree to go back to the regular (current) draft lottery rules after realizing how many teams get left out of it.

f***. Knew it was too good to be true.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

I wonder if they’d announce a draft lottery before they decide on how to return to play.

If they go with a 24-team playoffs, there should only be 7 teams in the lottery.

 

[Cosmix]

Well presumably the players who need to “go somewhere” after junior and aren’t good enough for the AHL or ECHL wouldn’t get drafted.

It’s not really all that different than what happens now where guys who aren’t good enough for ECHL or AHL after junior go unsigned by the franchise who drafted them and find their own place to play or move on to other things. The franchise just hasn’t invested a few years of effort into the player.

That’s the advantage, you’d be drafting far more NHL/AHL ready players.

There would likely also be other adjustments, like maybe having fewer rounds in the draft to account for lower bust rate but that’s not crazy.

It’s the norm in other North American pro leagues. The NFL requires players to be 3 years out of high school to be draft eligible. The NBA requires players to be one year out of high school. The MLB seems like a free for all of combined draft and free agency.



Yes. The decision would have to be made as you’re drafting the player. It’s no different than what they do in the NFL, NBA, or MLB. You draft a guy and bring him into your development system right away.

That said, the decision is less of a gamble because the player is further along.



Maybe, I don’t know what they would or wouldn’t accept. The NBAPA accepted to ban players getting drafted right out of high school after the 2005 draft. It depends on what is offered in collective bargaining. Ultimately, if the offer is interesting enough for the PA membership, the interest of athletes who aren’t yet members can be set aside.

There is also the issue of human rights and the right for an adult to work his trade and earn a living.

 

[Micklebot]

I wonder if they’d announce a draft lottery before they decide on how to return to play.

If they go with a 24-team playoffs, there should only be 7 teams in the lottery.

This is how i feel too, either limit the number of spots you can move up or limit those in the lottery to teams not in the playoffs. Ptoblem is there is a ton of uncertainty around if there will be playoffs,

 

[Bileur]

There is also the issue of human rights and the right for an adult to work his trade and earn a living.

I haven’t seen any instances of a court ordering a league to allow a player not meeting certain age related eligibility requirements to be allowed to participate in a draft. If you’re aware of any please share.

 

[Micklebot]

I haven’t seen any instances of a court ordering a league to allow a player not meeting certain age related eligibility requirements to be allowed to participate in a draft. If you’re aware of any please share.

Closest I can think of is Spencer Haywood v. NBA

Haywood’s 1971 lawsuit, Haywood v. National Basketball Association, invalidated N.B.A. rules that said a player was ineligible for the draft until four years after his high school graduation, or the graduation of his class in the case of a dropout.
Haywood challenged the cozy arrangement between the N.C.A.A. and the N.B.A. that essentially compelled athletes to play four years in college. It was an arrangement that benefited colleges and the N.B.A., but not necessarily the players.

Early Entry? One and Done? Thank Spencer Haywood for the Privilege

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

You know, there was a time when you could only pick 18 year olds in the first three (iirc) rounds of the NHL draft, and even then the kids had to opt into the draft. I would be totally ok with going back to a 19-year-old draft. Back in the 80s, if I remember correctly. Yes, it means kids would likely get into major junior a year later (in some cases), but that also helps the competitive balance in lower leagues. Might make midget and bantam and junior A & B a bit more attractive for kids, too.

Nothing wrong with letting kids get an extra year of development before throwing them to the wolves. Maybe then we can give kids a break....the idea that kids need to train several hours a day in their early to mid teens is insane. I know they are dedicated and focused and all, but they need a bit of time to be kids, too. Maybe if we take things a bit slower and not force kids to give up friends, a social life, educational options and other sports at such a young age, we might lower the dropout rate at the 12-14 age range and end up with more draftable talent down the road. And of course the added side-benefit of giving scouts an extra year to watch these kids and drafting a kid that's a bit closer to being a finished product.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Here is my solution that pleases everybody, the players, the GMs, the league, the sponsors, the television partners.

1) The regular season is officially over. (But hockey isn't over...read on)
2) Standings are conducted via point percentage.
3) Regular lottery, with the bottom 15 teams involved.
4) Because the season is over, teams are allowed to trade players.
5) Replace the Stanley Cup Playoffs with either a 31 team tournament, or a two different tournaments, a tournament with each Canadian team, and larger tournament with the American teams. (or round robin)
6) The tournament will use 20-21 rosters (hence the trading). Teams that were seeded in playoff spots will get some sort of concessions in the form of byes.
7) As far as branding and marketing goes, I haven't thought that far ahead....It won't be for the Stanley Cup. Although, I really do like the idea of a winner of a "Canadian Cup" tournament and an "American Cup" tournament facing in a big Super Bowl type challenge game to crown the Stanley Cup champion. If they do go that route, it won't be recorded as the 19-20 season Stanley Cup Champion, there'll be an asterisk.

(I'm assuming crossing boarders might be an issue, hence tournaments being separated by country. Honestly, a round robin tournament with all Canadian teams would be wild.)

People will say it's not fair that they'd meshing the 2020 season with the 2021 season by using 2021 rosters, but they really aren't. The tournaments would basically be a novelty to appease the networks for lost content and try to recoup as much lost revenue as possible. The only reason the 2020 season even plays into the tournament would be to give some sort of consolation to the teams who weren't given a draft lottery spot.

Basically solves all the problems, assuming the networks and NHLPA would be on board.

 

[Laphroaig]

There was a period in the 70's when the NHL had a twenty year old draft with no exceptions. This caused Denis Potvin to play two redundant years of Junior hockey when he was clearly NHL ready. It was good for me because I got to watch him but if the league goes to a twenty year old draft they really need to allow for exceptional talents to be taken in the first round.

 

[Sensinitis]

I really hope there’s a June draft it would be the best thing to happen since the beginning of 2020. There would finally be something to look forward to. We’re gonna be really spoiled with skilled youth after the draft so can that pls happen asap!

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Here is my solution that pleases everybody, the players, the GMs, the league, the sponsors, the television partners.

1) The regular season is officially over. (But hockey isn't over...read on)
2) Standings are conducted via point percentage.
3) Regular lottery, with the bottom 15 teams involved.
4) Because the season is over, teams are allowed to trade players.
5) Replace the Stanley Cup Playoffs with either a 31 team tournament, or a two different tournaments, a tournament with each Canadian team, and larger tournament with the American teams. (or round robin)
6) The tournament will use 20-21 rosters (hence the trading). Teams that were seeded in playoff spots will get some sort of concessions in the form of byes.
7) As far as branding and marketing goes, I haven't thought that far ahead....It won't be for the Stanley Cup. Although, I really do like the idea of a winner of a "Canadian Cup" tournament and an "American Cup" tournament facing in a big Super Bowl type challenge game to crown the Stanley Cup champion. If they do go that route, it won't be recorded as the 19-20 season Stanley Cup Champion, there'll be an asterisk.

(I'm assuming crossing boarders might be an issue, hence tournaments being separated by country. Honestly, a round robin tournament with all Canadian teams would be wild.)

People will say it's not fair that they'd meshing the 2020 season with the 2021 season by using 2021 rosters, but they really aren't. The tournaments would basically be a novelty to appease the networks for lost content and try to recoup as much lost revenue as possible. The only reason the 2020 season even plays into the tournament would be to give some sort of consolation to the teams who weren't given a draft lottery spot.

Basically solves all the problems, assuming the networks and NHLPA would be on board.

That's one thing I don't get. If the NHL and networks are starved for hockey coverage...why not call up players in a few big cities (NY, Toronto, possibly LA) to get together and form a few teams of their own, and do things for tv? Grab an arena in each city, and have the different groups do things for tv. Perhaps one group do some training videos, if there's a big group in one area they can make 2 or 3 teams for a mini 3-on-3 tournament, a group in another city can do skill competitions and tricks...stuff like that. The different groups stay in the city they're already in (reason you choose cities that already have a ton of NHLers around) and do their thing. Just have the NHL cover insurance costs, and use an NHL arena (empty, of course), and there you go.

It's not as great as watching real NHL games, but at this point a glorified shinny game or all star skills competition is better than nothing.

 

[Crosside]

Here is my solution that pleases everybody, the players, the GMs, the league, the sponsors, the television partners.

1) The regular season is officially over. (But hockey isn't over...read on)
2) Standings are conducted via point percentage.
3) Regular lottery, with the bottom 15 teams involved.
4) Because the season is over, teams are allowed to trade players.
5) Replace the Stanley Cup Playoffs with either a 31 team tournament, or a two different tournaments, a tournament with each Canadian team, and larger tournament with the American teams. (or round robin)
6) The tournament will use 20-21 rosters (hence the trading). Teams that were seeded in playoff spots will get some sort of concessions in the form of byes.
7) As far as branding and marketing goes, I haven't thought that far ahead....It won't be for the Stanley Cup. Although, I really do like the idea of a winner of a "Canadian Cup" tournament and an "American Cup" tournament facing in a big Super Bowl type challenge game to crown the Stanley Cup champion. If they do go that route, it won't be recorded as the 19-20 season Stanley Cup Champion, there'll be an asterisk.

(I'm assuming crossing boarders might be an issue, hence tournaments being separated by country. Honestly, a round robin tournament with all Canadian teams would be wild.)

People will say it's not fair that they'd meshing the 2020 season with the 2021 season by using 2021 rosters, but they really aren't. The tournaments would basically be a novelty to appease the networks for lost content and try to recoup as much lost revenue as possible. The only reason the 2020 season even plays into the tournament would be to give some sort of consolation to the teams who weren't given a draft lottery spot.

Basically solves all the problems, assuming the networks and NHLPA would be on board.

If all team involved in the tournament, you have to involved all team in the lottery but with little odds and more odds for top three bottom team.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

If all team involved in the tournament, you have to involved all team in the lottery but with little odds and more odds for top three bottom team.

The point of the lottery is to help the worst teams.

In a major 31 team tournament, the 16 playoff teams would get preferential treatment in the format. The bottom 15 teams would get lottery odds. It would be a fair trade off. Ultimately, it has to be considered that the teams in the back half of the lottery have very low odds of winning.

I don't like the argument against point percentage that all teams haven't played the same amount of games. It helps/hurts teams equally. It is pretty much random. If a team loses that extra game, they were hurt by it, if they win it, they were helped by it. There's a large enough sample size to dictate who should be seeded 1-15 and who shouldn't.

I think that the biggest issue isn't the lottery, but is handicapping teams by not allowing them to trade players at the draft. It isn't talked about enough, because really it is devastatingly inefficient. This is why I'm all for the idea of saying, look there's no 19-20 Stanley Cup Champion, that's just not possible, that season is burned....but we can find a way to award a Stanley Cup before the 20-21 season begins. It's not the 19-20 Stanley Cup champion because it won't be those rosters, and it won't be the same format the cup is usually awarded under. But it will be a tough tournament, and the cup won't just be given away.

I go back an forth on whether it is a better or worse idea to market the tournament as being for the Stanley Cup. The risk they take if they use a different branding, like WCOH, is that it means nothing, because fans don't identify the WCOH as meaning anything. If they award the Stanley Cup in a 31 team tournament that is some Frankenstein of the 19-20 and the 20-21 season, they risk fan backlash that they aren't crowning a "real" Stanley Cup champion.

Under that sort of idea, the "playoff" teams from 19-20 would get a bye of some sort. So there would be a consolation for being out of the lottery.

 

[Crosside]

That’s the problem I have with the lottery we have now. Have to be more odds for the top three bottom team. Ex: 31= 30 %
30 = 23%
29 = 18 %
Ext

 

[Crosside]

The point of the lottery is to help the worst teams.

In a major 31 team tournament, the 16 playoff teams would get preferential treatment in the format. The bottom 15 teams would get lottery odds. It would be a fair trade off. Ultimately, it has to be considered that the teams in the back half of the lottery have very low odds of winning.

I don't like the argument against point percentage that all teams haven't played the same amount of games. It helps/hurts teams equally. It is pretty much random. If a team loses that extra game, they were hurt by it, if they win it, they were helped by it. There's a large enough sample size to dictate who should be seeded 1-15 and who shouldn't.

I think that the biggest issue isn't the lottery, but is handicapping teams by not allowing them to trade players at the draft. It isn't talked about enough, because really it is devastatingly inefficient. This is why I'm all for the idea of saying, look there's no 19-20 Stanley Cup Champion, that's just not possible, that season is burned....but we can find a way to award a Stanley Cup before the 20-21 season begins. It's not the 19-20 Stanley Cup champion because it won't be those rosters, and it won't be the same format the cup is usually awarded under. But it will be a tough tournament, and the cup won't just be given away.

I go back an forth on whether it is a better or worse idea to market the tournament as being for the Stanley Cup. The risk they take if they use a different branding, like WCOH, is that it means nothing, because fans don't identify the WCOH as meaning anything. If they award the Stanley Cup in a 31 team tournament that is some Frankenstein of the 19-20 and the 20-21 season, they risk fan backlash that they aren't crowning a "real" Stanley Cup champion.

Under that sort of idea, the "playoff" teams from 19-20 would get a bye of some sort. So there would be a consolation for being out of the lottery.

I agree the no trade is a big problem. I start to hear that next week team not in the playoff can trade player each other. I don’t like it because if he goes with 24 team. Just 7 team to trade

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I agree the no trade is a big problem. I start to hear that next week team not in the playoff can trade player each other. I don’t like it because if he goes with 24 team. Just 7 team to trade

If the COVID-19 roster freeze is lifted, all teams can trade, even playoff teams.

The problem is, those players won't be eligible for the playoffs for teams acquiring them, they will no longer be eligible for the playoffs for teams trading them, and the teams acquiring them will also have to be cap compliant until the playoffs.

So, it's about as good as not being able to trade.

Even if they don't go with my wacky 31 team idea, I think they need to end the 19-20 season now, at least in terms of roster management. Commit to holding some sort of Stanley Cup tournament in 2020, but with 20-21 rosters. Then take a short layoff and start the 20-21 season with those same rosters.

Teams will be opposed to that, because certain teams might feel they've peaked in 19-20 or wasted assets on rentals, but that's life. The downside is that those same teams (Tampa for example) will lose a lot more in the long run by having to get under the 81.5M cap in a really inefficient trade environment because there is no draft to trade those players at.

 

[DJB]

Yup just I said earlier. Sens gonna get pooched.

 

[Senscore]

Yup just I said earlier. Sens gonna get pooched.

 

[saskriders]

The point of the lottery is to help the worst teams.

In a major 31 team tournament, the 16 playoff teams would get preferential treatment in the format. The bottom 15 teams would get lottery odds. It would be a fair trade off. Ultimately, it has to be considered that the teams in the back half of the lottery have very low odds of winning.

I don't like the argument against point percentage that all teams haven't played the same amount of games. It helps/hurts teams equally. It is pretty much random. If a team loses that extra game, they were hurt by it, if they win it, they were helped by it. There's a large enough sample size to dictate who should be seeded 1-15 and who shouldn't.

I think that the biggest issue isn't the lottery, but is handicapping teams by not allowing them to trade players at the draft. It isn't talked about enough, because really it is devastatingly inefficient. This is why I'm all for the idea of saying, look there's no 19-20 Stanley Cup Champion, that's just not possible, that season is burned....but we can find a way to award a Stanley Cup before the 20-21 season begins. It's not the 19-20 Stanley Cup champion because it won't be those rosters, and it won't be the same format the cup is usually awarded under. But it will be a tough tournament, and the cup won't just be given away.

I go back an forth on whether it is a better or worse idea to market the tournament as being for the Stanley Cup. The risk they take if they use a different branding, like WCOH, is that it means nothing, because fans don't identify the WCOH as meaning anything. If they award the Stanley Cup in a 31 team tournament that is some Frankenstein of the 19-20 and the 20-21 season, they risk fan backlash that they aren't crowning a "real" Stanley Cup champion.

Under that sort of idea, the "playoff" teams from 19-20 would get a bye of some sort. So there would be a consolation for being out of the lottery.

I think teams wouldn't be happy to give up lottery odds for a meaningless tournament. I'd love to see hockey have other meaningful trophies like in soccer though. I just don't see it happening without a major change to North American sports culture.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

We better get Lafreniere

 

[bert]

Yup just I said earlier. Sens gonna get pooched.

You have been calling it the entire time.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

McGuire: Sens need a forward and defenseman with first two picks
McGuire: Sens need a forward and defenseman with first two picks (asked if the Sens get 2 and 3)
NBC's Pierre McGuire on no date for a June draft, Jake Sanderson v. Jamie Drysdale, Cole Perfetti has a head for the game, Leafs signing Mikko Lehtonen and Cody Ceci's future.

McGuire seems to think Sanderson and Drysdale are both up there in the top 10

the last thing I want us doin is listening to pierre McGuire

 

[Bubba Pilks]

the last thing I want us doin is listening to pierre McGuire

Disagree. His insight into a prospect dominating middle school mathematics in Abitibi-Témiscamingue, Qc is invaluable.

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

Lol if you want to be part of the lottery then your ass isn't making the playoffs too. So choose one.

 

[Speatleysson]

Disagree. His insight into a prospect dominating middle school mathematics in Abitibi-Témiscamingue, Qc is invaluable.

He knows where said prospect's parents complete their grocery shopping and that reverend jean-guy rubberboots baptized him on a beautiful sunny day in September.