HF Habs: 2020 Montreal Canadiens Off-Season Thread part 2

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

The Habs farm system is very strong on D, so that I think the team should survive Weber and Petry aging out.

Demchenko, Primeau, McNiven are unlikely to ever be as good as Price, but they'll also never cost 10.5 million.

On forwards, the Habs have a young corps and a weak farm system. The constraint is whether or not Suzuki and Kotkaniemi will be adequately paid.

So overall things should stay level, unless the drafting/trading/signings are very good in the next two years.

You overrate our D prospects and are banking on hope to keep a middling to bottom team afloat. I don't see it. Struble, Harris, Norlinder, Brook.. big question marks. Even Juulsen, Mete, Fleury. Even Romanov. We'll be extremely lucky if we can get TWO top3 Ds out of those, let alone a bonafide #1 D.

 

[Tighthead]

The guy wears an A
His icetime is not even that high while playing in pk
Is salary is damn right for constant 20 goals
His concussion symptoms faded away late in the season
We didn’t spent to the cap the last few season so why his salary is an issue?
He is not the issue, hes good depth.

Explain to me in detail how wearing the A is relevant to his compensation. What has he done, wearing the A, that no other player was capable of doing? What success flowed from that?

He has scored 20 twice. That’s not constant. Again, not sure why everyone feels the need to overstate his production.

Good depth is the downfall of this team. It’s like how the road to hell is paved with good intentions. The road to mediocrity is paved by prioritizing depth.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

And let’s say they are in playoff contention come the deadline? What do you do? You can’t sell cuz that’s a big FU to the veterans. Can’t re-sign them all
That’s why at least 2 of the upcoming UFAs need to be dealt In the coming weeks
Domi is an RFA. So he or danualt must go
Tatar or Gallagher must go. Both too small
Keep armia, good 3rd liner with size
Our forward group needs an overhaul. It needs to start now

Indeed maybe its fun to have Susuki , kk , danault and Domi , for me i think we need to trade both Danault and Domi right now. It's the perfect time for Danault and Domi is still RFA and young. Yeah we are gonna lose Center depth but we are gonna gain on other areas that we need. S C O R I N G T A L E N T S.
After both gone , id try to move Tatar or Gallagher for a prospect and a first at deadline playoff or not.
This team can'T keep everybody in 2 seasons.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Byron is not the same since having been knocked out in that stupid "honor" fight.

I would have said the same a couple of months ago, but he looked really good in the bubble.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Explain to me in detail how wearing the A is relevant to his compensation. What has he done, wearing the A, that no other player was capable of doing? What success flowed from that?

He has scored 20 twice. That’s not constant. Again, not sure why everyone feels the need to overstate his production.

Good depth is the downfall of this team. It’s like how the road to hell is paved with good intentions. The road to mediocrity is paved by prioritizing depth.

Hes wearing the ''A'' because '' stun ptit guerrier '' people can say whatever they want about him , he wont get 40 points anymore. Fluke seasons , getting older , injuried alot lately. His NHL tools are extremely limited , there was a reason why he was waived.

 

[1909]

Indeed maybe its fun to have Susuki , kk , danault and Domi , for me i think we need to trade both Danault and Domi right now. It's the perfect time for Danault and Domi is still RFA and young. Yeah we are gonna lose Center depth but we are gonna gain on other areas that we need. S C O R I N G T A L E N T S.
After both gone , id try to move Tatar or Gallagher for a prospect and a first at deadline playoff or not.
This team can'T keep everybody in 2 seasons.

MB is bad.... But you way worse.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Weber just turned 35. Price, 33. Petry will be 33 in 3 months. This is, at max, a 3 year window.

And that's with all the upcoming UFAs, Danault, Petry, Tatar, Gallgher.

Yeah I really have no clue why the fanbase is so excited to be doing all this nonsense frittering around the edges with those massive contract issues coming up. The logic is that Chiarot Edmundson etc are good because they insulate Romanov, Norlinder, etc. while they develop but...then what? Are we just expecting that a 22 year old Romanov is going to slot next to a 38 year old Weber and it's all going to be OK and nobody else is going to age? We're going to sign Petry for 4 years at 7M and there won't be any decline? Price is 33 and we need to spend 4.3M on a backup to support him and we're still 100% confident he'll be elite in 2 or 3 or 4 years?

I just don't really get this idea that the Habs can and should just sit and be patient. The Price/Weber/Petry core is good, but they're 35, 33, and 33. And as you mentioned and the team's getting huge contributions from Danault, Tatar, and Gallagher at absolute bargain contracts. The prospects and internal development from Suzuki and KK (who are about to cost real money soon too!) will have to be monumental to make up for the loss in value from paying Gallagher 3.75 through his prime to paying him 7.5M through his decline, and to offset the inevitable declines from Weber/Price/Petry (which we've already seen from Price and Weber, I don't think it's debatable that both players are worse than they were in say, 2014).

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

MB is bad.... But you way worse.

Ya im really bad , let's not forget that the GM in place after 8 years never made the ahl playoffs or 1 time if i remember , missed playoffs 4 times in the last 5 seasons. The roster is not even better than when he arrived as a gm in 2012.
Danault ask way too much money for what hes worth.
Playing Domi on the wing is useless , Domi on a thirdline is useless. Im against keep Domi for the sole reason to keep him as a center if Danault is traded. Domi will eat again KK icetime. KK playing with plugs will not help him to get better. Domi on the thirdline will do the same shit. We can't sign everybody after the expansion. Decisions have to be made.

Yet you think my proposal are way worse when you guys worship people like Byron Edmundon and depth players who are gonna bring this team absolutely nowhere in a close future or long terms.

I guess people in this board are in loved with Medicority , falls in love way too easily for players that are overrated by french medias.

But hey somehow my decisions are even wors than someone that couldnt get a 1st center in 6 years.


Edit : Let's not forget terrible coach signings , awful farm system. Recycling the same coaches over and over. Can't bring anybody from Ufas , cant'draft but somehow my decisions are way worse.

I have absolutely no doubt if we picked a combo of 5 people in this board that we would make a better job as a gm with collective votes then this stupid clown.

 

[Lshap]

But their salaries do.. look at the cap space now, we lost almost 8 million of it on two depth guys.. that does hamper your ability to bring in 8m pure salary on a UFA right now. We are almost up against the cap with the only changes being a new depth D man and a new back up goalie.. that's not an enviable position.

I'd agree if we were likely to sign a top UFA, but let's face it... chances are slim to none. You really think Hall or Hoffman are coming here? Good on Bergevin for bringing Radulov back to the NHL for a year, but when was the last time an established UFA chose Montreal as his longterm home?

Odds are that any top forward we get will be via trade. In which case, salary in, salary out, and the difference is more than covered by our existing cap space.

 

[Kwikwi]

I couldn’t disagree more. Paying that much in dollars and term for a marginal player is rarely a good idea. Give any mobile fourth liner Byron’s
ice time and the production will be similar.

Explain to me in detail how wearing the A is relevant to his compensation. What has he done, wearing the A, that no other player was capable of doing? What success flowed from that?

He has scored 20 twice. That’s not constant. Again, not sure why everyone feels the need to overstate his production.

Good depth is the downfall of this team. It’s like how the road to hell is paved with good intentions. The road to mediocrity is paved by prioritizing depth.

Man are you serious?
Every human being has character? Isnt that what MB is looking for in a player. That means it is not universal.

22 20 15( in 56 game)
Last year he was concussed

we suck because we have a bad bottom 6? I would say we have no 1st line. But hey you’re blinded hate for a legit player is astonishing

 

[Tighthead]

Man are you serious?
Every human being has character? Isnt that what MB is looking for in a player. That means it is not universal.

22 20 15( in 56 game)
Last year he was concussed

we suck because we have a bad bottom 6? I would say we have no 1st line. But hey you’re blinded hate for a legit player is astonishing

I’ve been on record as saying I like Byron but don’t like his contract. How is that “blinded” hate? Please edit your comment so it is grounded in reality. I don’t like the suggestion that my evaluation of a player’s value is based on “blinded hate”. Please quote the actual sentences that support that conclusion. Also next time you have a word tantrum it’s blind hate, not blinded.

Pretty angry reaction considering you couldn’t even explain your own argument.

Maybe rewrite those sentences about MB, character and universal because you really aren’t coherent.

 

[JoelWarlord]

I'd agree if we were likely to sign a top UFA, but let's face it... chances are slim to none. You really think Hall or Hoffman are coming here?

Yes to an impact UFA, can't say on Hall specifically (and don't particularly want Hoffman). Almost every team in the league is cutting salary and Montreal is one of three teams where money is no object. The Penguins are trying to get to 70M. If a team that's been as consistently good and always spends to the cap like Pittsburgh is trying to cut 10-15M in payroll what do we think the poorer teams in smaller markets are going to be doing?

If Montreal is offering real contracts with a 12M signing bonus the second the ink is dry and another in 12 months while other teams are trying to get cute offering Hall 7x7 of straight salary there is absolutely a realistic chance we could be in the running for a legitimate UFA talent. I don't even necessarily mean Hall/Krug/Pietrangelo, we're now at a point where even signing someone like Dadonov is going to require some cap maneuvering to make it all work and all we have to show for it is a depth D and a backup.

Good on Bergevin for bringing Radulov back to the NHL for a year, but when was the last time an established UFA chose Montreal as his longterm home?

Alzner. He sucked and it was an obvious disaster but he was considered one of the best UFA dmen of the class and had the pedigree of being a long term top 4 guy who was drafted high.

Odds are that any top forward we get will be via trade. In which case, salary in, salary out, and the difference is more than covered by our existing cap space.

Again half the league is cutting salary so this isn't necessarily true. Not that I think OEL is the guy but as an example if the Coyotes are trading him they won't want to take much money back.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Man are you serious?
Every human being has character? Isnt that what MB is looking for in a player. That means it is not universal.

22 20 15( in 56 game)
Last year he was concussed

we suck because we have a bad bottom 6? I would say we have no 1st line. But hey you’re blinded hate for a legit player is astonishing

we'd be better off if he was looking for skills.

 

[Kwikwi]

we'd be better off if he was looking for skills.

the guy has more goals than Drouin... anyway

 

[ECWHSWI]

the guy has more goals than Drouin... anyway

you,re completely missing the point.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I'd agree if we were likely to sign a top UFA, but let's face it... chances are slim to none. You really think Hall or Hoffman are coming here? Good on Bergevin for bringing Radulov back to the NHL for a year, but when was the last time an established UFA chose Montreal as his longterm home?

Odds are that any top forward we get will be via trade. In which case, salary in, salary out, and the difference is more than covered by our existing cap space.

Erik Cole, 9 years ago.

Two years before Cole; Cammalleri, Gionta

Two years before Cammy and Gio; Hamrlik.

But I made a mistake... it'a Karl Alzner, 3 years ago.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Yeah I really have no clue why the fanbase is so excited to be doing all this nonsense frittering around the edges with those massive contract issues coming up. The logic is that Chiarot Edmundson etc are good because they insulate Romanov, Norlinder, etc. while they develop but...then what? Are we just expecting that a 22 year old Romanov is going to slot next to a 38 year old Weber and it's all going to be OK and nobody else is going to age? We're going to sign Petry for 4 years at 7M and there won't be any decline? Price is 33 and we need to spend 4.3M on a backup to support him and we're still 100% confident he'll be elite in 2 or 3 or 4 years?

I just don't really get this idea that the Habs can and should just sit and be patient. The Price/Weber/Petry core is good, but they're 35, 33, and 33. And as you mentioned and the team's getting huge contributions from Danault, Tatar, and Gallagher at absolute bargain contracts. The prospects and internal development from Suzuki and KK (who are about to cost real money soon too!) will have to be monumental to make up for the loss in value from paying Gallagher 3.75 through his prime to paying him 7.5M through his decline, and to offset the inevitable declines from Weber/Price/Petry (which we've already seen from Price and Weber, I don't think it's debatable that both players are worse than they were in say, 2014).

Some people will buy into anything, as long as there's a big balloon of hope attached to it.

 

[sheed36]

This was an interesting chat from earlier today with Allan Walsh on TSN690 talking about taxes when it comes to signing UFA's and if a coach or a GM possibly being a reason why a player decides to sign or not to sign with a specific team.

Walsh: NHL should go to luxury tax system

 

[Zorba]

Gimme Hall at 7.5 for 6 years and front load the shit out of it. He’s free. No prospects or picks given up
Yes he’s injury prone but he’d still be out our best forward

front load it

 

[CHfan1]

Gimme Hall at 7.5 for 6 years and front load the shit out of it. He’s free. No prospects or picks given up
Yes he’s injury prone but he’d still be out our best forward

front load it

He won’t sign for that little per year (Brodin just got $42 million for 7 years, I can’t see Hall signing $45 for 6) and players may stay away from front loaded contracts because the escrow is at 20% next season vs 10% in the 22/23 season and 6% in the 23/24 season.

 

[Zorba]

He won’t sign for that little per year (Brodin just got $42 million for 7 years, I can’t see Hall signing $45 for 6) and players may stay away from front loaded contracts because the escrow is at 20% next season vs 10% in the 22/23 season and 6% in the 23/24 season.

7.5 is enough for hall. I get the escrow part but if it’s 15 million front loaded for 3 years is still a lot more than he will make up front from any other team.
Habs don’t have any $$$ problems. Work out the contract that entices him the most
Teams are f***ed. Habs aren’t

 

[DAChampion]

Some people will buy into anything, as long as there's a big balloon of hope attached to it.

That's true, but that's also true of defeatism.

 

[Archijerej]

So you're saying it's better to have those guys because their contracts end sooner?
Great! I rather sign this guy because in one year he can GTFO! Woohooo!

No, I'm saying you made a poor comparison.

If we could sign Hall to a term that has a low risk of being crippling, I'm pretty sure you won't find many who would disagree with such a move.

 

[CHfan1]

7.5 is enough for hall. I get the escrow part but if it’s 15 million front loaded for 3 years is still a lot more than he will make up front from any other team.
Habs don’t have any $$$ problems. Work out the contract that entices him the most
Teams are f***ed. Habs aren’t

He wants to go to a contender. So I can’t see that being the Habs, especially for that little no matter how the contract is structured. Dreger thought he’d be asking for $9.5 million per.

 

[Zorba]

He wants to go to a contender. So I can’t see that being the Habs, especially for that little no matter how the contract is structured. Dreger thought he’d be asking for $9.5 million per.

That’s crazy ass money. Now which contender has 8-9 million during a flat cap ?
None. Maybe Colorado but then they’re asking for a world of hurt when MacKinnon is up and Makar
Habs should take a run. We need talent