OT: 2020 Football Thread: Offseason Edition

[NYSPORTS]

I do think Barkley was overhyped but I don’t think there’s a single running back who would look consistently good in this scheme.

his play is unfortunately demonstrating many fans had a better understanding than Gettleman just as fans had a better understanding of the cap compared to George Young.

Barkley has not made the team better. The QB doesn’t have it easier, the receivers don’t get open or left in single coverage nor do opponents need to put nine in the box to stop the run.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

his play is unfortunately demonstrating many fans had a better understanding than Gettleman just as fans had a better understanding of the cap compared to George Young.

Barkley has not made the team better. The QB doesn’t have it easier, the receivers don’t get open or left in single coverage nor do opponents need to put nine in the box to stop the run.

Imagine trading down a few spots and picking up Nelson and then Chubb.

Motherf***er.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I agree with that. But if that's the case, why the f*** did we draft a RB who requires a specific scheme to succeed? I was banging the f***ing drum that Barkley required a very specific scheme set to work in the NFL and required a very good OL. He needs space. Space requires blocking. No blocking means no space. Thus, a running back who requires space to do something cannot possibly succeed. And instead of doing anything about this lack of space since we drafted him, our GM has just done nothing.

The Giants need to trade Barkley. Find a buyer for a 1st and 3rd and move him. He should bring back a 1st pretty easily and the kicker I'd accept is a 3rd. Many Giants fans would gasp at that, but what the f*** are we going to do with a guy who is an absolute bitch in pass blocking and who can't run behind our line? Why bother keeping him when we can trade him and recoup SOME of the lost value?

The top-3 in that draft is looking like it was a minefield. Baker and Darnold have not progressed and arguably regressed, and Barkley was the worst possible pick the Giants could have made with their roster construction.

That said, if the Giants they drafted Darnold and he still looked like shit it would at least be justifiable, because the Giants needed a QB. The Barkley pick was always bad, most people knew it from the get go. Even if he were lighting it up the pick would still be questionable.

long story short: Gettleman is incompetent.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Imagine trading down a few spots and picking up Nelson and then Chubb.

Motherf***er.

he never picked up the phone . . . yet did when shopping OBJ

 

[RickChartraw]

Only 1 game against a very good D... new coaching staff, 3 new lineman, but you can't help but think that Barkley was the wrong pick for this team at that time, as others have pointed out. Quinton Nelson or Bradley Chubb would have probably been the better choice.

 

[NYSPORTS]

trade Giants need to trade Barkley. Find a buyer for a 1st and 3rd and move him.?

Raiders . . . while Miami likes to make an occasional splash.

 

[East Coast Bias]

I’m still holding out hope Woody Johnson moves the team to London while he’s over there. Just make a clean break in my life. Start over. I’m a Cards fan for now.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

To your point, this team has drafted in the top 10 every year but 1 since 2015 & still only has 1 impact player on either side of the ball....and that guy plays the least valuable position on the field in today's NFL.

Since 2015 that's been 5 drafts and two of those guy it's still too early to say. Silly post man. Jones has showed promise but he's played less than a full season of games and Thomas has played one game. You expect Jones and Thomas to be impact players already?

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Raiders . . . while Miami likes to make an occasional splash.

Raiders have Josh Jacobs

 

[NYSPORTS]

Raiders have Josh Jacobs

was he touched by the hand of God?

 

[Boris Zubov]

Daniel Jones isn't an impact player to you? Ok.

He could be, but he isn't there yet. Ok?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

He could be, but he isn't there yet. Ok?

He's a QB who has played less than a full season's worth of games and hasn't sat a season learning the game either.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Since 2015 that's been 5 drafts and two of those guy it's still too early to say. Silly post man. Jones has showed promise but he's played less than a full season of games and Thomas has played one game. You expect Jones and Thomas to be impact players already?

My post was more about the overall roster construction. If you want to exclude Jones & Thomas, ok the jury is still out on them, but you can't exactly call them impact players yet.

The point stands....this team has been so bad for so long & even with all the 1st rounders they've had in past 5-6 years, they still appear to be a bottom 5 team in the league talent wise. Their drafting & their record over that period is pretty hard to defend.

 

[sbjnyc]

Pedestrian is an exaggeration, but he wouldn’t look any better than Barkley has in his career.

my point is that who the back is is really not relevant when the Giants can’t block. They have a superior running back and their running game is still garbage. It’s not because of the back

Did you actually watch Barry Sanders play? If you did you'd realize how ridiculous your post is. Sanders is arguably the greatest RB in history. He didn't have a great OL and was constantly hit behind the line throughout his career.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Did you actually watch Barry Sanders play? If you did you'd realize how ridiculous your post is. Sanders is arguably the greatest RB in history. He didn't have a great OL and was constantly hit behind the line throughout his career.

No I’ve never watched Barry Sanders give me a break. you're underestimating how impactful a bad offensive line is. “Not great” is eons better than the Giants line.

and it’s not just their line. Every aspect of the Giants running game is bad.

There isn’t a single human who has ever lived on this earth who would have produced last night playing running back for the giants

 

[Ghost of jas]

Imagine trading down a few spots and picking up Nelson and then Chubb.

Motherf***er.

Gold jacket...legend...something, something...

 

[Adam Fox Time]

Imagine trading down a few spots and picking up Nelson and then Chubb.

Motherf***er.

Imagine if the Bruins took Barzal, Connor, and Chabot in 2015...

I don't think we can really know if Saquon was a bad pick or not until he goes to another team, which hopefully he does unless he turns into a generational superstar here in the next two seasons. If he's on a team with a solid OL and becomes a hall of fame player, then you can't really fault Gettleman for taking him #2 overall. You can only fault him for not building a better OL. If he goes somewhere else and flames out then yeah, he was a bad pick.

It has to be said, though, that if we didn't take Saquon we probably would have simply taken Darnold so honestly it all works out.

 

[JCProdigy]

Not for the faint of heart...

 

[East Coast Bias]

Imagine if the Bruins took Barzal, Connor, and Chabot in 2015...

I don't think we can really know if Saquon was a bad pick or not until he goes to another team, which hopefully he does unless he turns into a generational superstar here in the next two seasons. If he's on a team with a solid OL and becomes a hall of fame player, then you can't really fault Gettleman for taking him #2 overall. You can only fault him for not building a better OL. If he goes somewhere else and flames out then yeah, he was a bad pick.

It has to be said, though, that if we didn't take Saquon we probably would have simply taken Darnold so honestly it all works out.

Taking a RB at #2 is bad in general. And a lot of people were annoyed based on that principle, @Hunter Gathers included in that.

I'ma a Jets fan fwiw, but I remember watching that draft at the bar with all my Giants fans friends and the consensus was "we need a QB!!!!"

If you do enough fantasy football you know - RBs are disposable by and large. Teams burn through them, they split time, they vary by play selection. It's just not a position you want to spend a top pick on IMO.

 

[Adam Fox Time]

I'm not a football exec obviously, but my observation is that running the football is still really important. Kyle Shanahan has shown us that twice is the past four Super Bowls. Running out the clock is still as important as ever (even if it doesn't matter at all in fantasy football), and if you had a GOAT-level running back as well? You could do a lot in this league offensively. That's obviously what they were going for when they took Saquon.

 

[JimmyG89]

It has to be said, though, that if we didn't take Saquon we probably would have simply taken Darnold so honestly it all works out.

And you know this how? Darnold showed promise in the end of his rookie season and then they brought in an absolute idiot to coach the team. His situation has to quite possibly be the worst in the league. There are things on him, but the things on the people around him outweigh everything he's done wrong. the Browns and the Jets have just cratered their young QBs with their coaching decisions, but at least the Brown brought in actual talent. OBJ, Landry, Hunt, Chubb. What does Darnold have? Le'Veon Bell and nothing else. Crowder is his best WR. I like Crowder, but he's not that kind of player. At least Jones has some weapons on the outside in Slayton and Shepard.

The Jets are going to run through Sam Darnold's rookie contract and not have a great understanding of what he could become. He'll still be very young when that ends. He's actually younger than Joe Burrow. He's the same age as Jones. It's quite possible that Darnold, under some tutelage of Eli, gets off to a better start with the team the Giants assembled even that season. It's why people were happy they took Mims. Some potential on the outside, but alas he is hurt. Now Bell is hurt and we're going to see Father Time running and Chris Hogan on the outside.

 

[NYSPORTS]

I'm not a football exec obviously, but my observation is that running the football is still really important. Kyle Shanahan has shown us that twice is the past four Super Bowls. Running out the clock is still as important as ever (even if it doesn't matter at all in fantasy football), and if you had a GOAT-level running back as well? You could do a lot in this league offensively. That's obviously what they were going for when they took Saquon.

when does a highly drafted HB win a Super Bowl?

and Kyle Shanahan had a running back by committee

 

[Bob Richards]

But look at the RBs that San Fran has. They are being lead by Raheem Mostert who would qualify as a JAG until last year.

That's the point many of us stress with regards to the RB position. Running the football is important! But you don't need Walter Payton 2.0 to achieve that. Offensive Line and proper scheme can create capable running backs from scrap heaps and castoffs.

The most important position in football is the QB. Naturally you want to protect that QB by building a line. When you build that line the downstream effect allows you to plug players at RB where they can still flourish. You build these first and let the RB success come to you. The Giants went ass backwards by going RB before anything else.

@Hunter Gathers is painfully right that the Giants could have still went with a RB and Guard in 2018 and instead went with Nelson and Chubb lol

 

[nyr2k2]

And you know this how? Darnold showed promise in the end of his rookie season and then they brought in an absolute idiot to coach the team. His situation has to quite possibly be the worst in the league. There are things on him, but the things on the people around him outweigh everything he's done wrong. the Browns and the Jets have just cratered their young QBs with their coaching decisions, but at least the Brown brought in actual talent. OBJ, Landry, Hunt, Chubb. What does Darnold have? Le'Veon Bell and nothing else. Crowder is his best WR. I like Crowder, but he's not that kind of player. At least Jones has some weapons on the outside in Slayton and Shepard.

The Jets are going to run through Sam Darnold's rookie contract and not have a great understanding of what he could become. He'll still be very young when that ends. He's actually younger than Joe Burrow. He's the same age as Jones. It's quite possible that Darnold, under some tutelage of Eli, gets off to a better start with the team the Giants assembled even that season. It's why people were happy they took Mims. Some potential on the outside, but alas he is hurt. Now Bell is hurt and we're going to see Father Time running and Chris Hogan on the outside.

Jets are doing to Darnold what they did to their other very young, very inexperienced QB--not giving him tools to succeed, whether it's receivers, linemen, or competent and stable coaching. I still firmly believe the Jets ruined Sanchez and that he could have been a solid QB in the league had they nurtured him properly. Same thing will happen to Darnold.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Kyle Shanahan tried to run out the clock on 2 SBs, lost both and the lesson is.......more RBs?