2020 Entry Draft Thread Part 3

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goforit

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0% chance Habs draft Perfetti IMO as their motto for drafting lately has been 'speed and character'...which is not him.

Hum?

Caufield: Not a bad skater but not a speedster either. How do you measure his character?

Kotkaniemi: Skating is far from being his strenght. Character? Still hard the quantify.

Poehling: Yes, he can skate. Character? Who knows.

I wouldn't say the Habs have a M.O. in the first round.
 
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Grand Admiral Thrawn

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Rossi is my boy.

Obviously winning the lottery and drafting Laffer is the dream, but Rossi would be my pick if available.

I know I know he's small but the kid's got talent and he can play make.

I see Caufield and Rossi playing together. He reminds me of Keller or even a Barzal.

A future middle of:
Suzuki
Rossi
Kotka

Looks pretty solid. If they all pan out of course...
 
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calder candidate

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I was in Finland when the Pulju draft happened. People had their doubts even back then. I think there wasn't as many doubters in North America, but in Finland he was seen as a risk.

Byfield is a much better player. Like Dach like year, there's no way he goes lower than 4. I say he'll get drafted second.

Also the guy that pick ahead of Puljujarvi we’re both 6’3’’ and 6’5’’ with elite skills. Even if some prospect match skill wise there just aren’t many prospect that matches Byfield physically so it a hard package to pass on for most team...
 
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VirginiaMtlExpat

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There are some very talented players of average size and less (especially picking at 8 or 9, or better), but I feel that this team has to find some talented players who are above 6 feet (who also conform to the speed requirement of the modern game), assuming that St-Louis and a number of other top teams stick to their formulas for success, especially since this team already has several small players on the NHL squad. That said, it's also true that it needs more high-level talent... period.

On an unrelated note, I'm intrigued by the fanspeak website with the draft simulations. I find that my own performance, albeit based on naive considerations, improves with the number of sims that I do. I wonder if it were possible to reproduce for the Habs this type of simulation (for $100K or so), or at least update it (since fanspeak's choices are a bit dated after all), based on statistical average and variance for each draftee's value among a poll of scouts and random number generators based on those stats. It seems to me that the Habs are too inflexible about their game plan sometimes, and fail to take advantage of some surprises on draft day. Case in point, Pavel Dorofeyev, drafted 79. In my mind, Fairbrother could have waited a round, and we could have Doro at 77. The sim could also replicate trading up or down, based on typical values; to enable us to get the next Pastrnak by trading up 2-3 spots when the opportunity materializes.

I would like to see the Habs test a number of competing strategies, based on multiple runs of these sims, and hone their draft list accordingly, with a little built-in flexibility (not hell-bent on drafting only left-handed defensemen :whaaa?:). Disclaimer: I teach simulation engineering at the university level.
 
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VirginiaMtlExpat

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I would LOVE if Byfield was available at #8 or in a trade-up scenario(#2-#7) but I don't think teams will trade down if he is on the board.
I would support trading up from 8 to 5 or 6 if he is still there, using say, a late second or a third. Based on the image below, a third might do it, although Byfield might amplify the difference between 5 and 8.
chart4.jpg
 

VirginiaMtlExpat

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I like Rossi because at 8 we still have a chance.

Byfield, simply because of his size will go top 3.
Lots of things can happen on draft day. A desperate team may fall in love with the top goalie. Another may decide that they need a PP QB above all else, and bam, #3 becomes available at #5. Someone can develop an injury that perturbs the expected arrangement or a player can drive away interest through his interviews. No one saw Hayton at 5 two years ago. Last year not only Caufield (which would make your argument), but also Newhook and Krebs went later than anticipated.
 
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Gaylord Q Tinkledink

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I would support trading up from 8 to 5 or 6 if he is still there, using say, a late second or a third. Based on the image below, a third might do it, although Byfield might amplify the difference between 5 and 8.
chart4.jpg

I'm not sure why people bother making these.

Anyways, Arizona traded 14th and 45th to move up to 11th just this past draft.

To move into the top 5, depending where you are, you're looking at a late 1st, or early 2nd and that's only to get North, or 5th assuming you're 8th at the most. To get.top 3 from 8th is costly.

Byfield, a guy who's reported as having high-end skill and size at 6'4 is a player you can't really pass on if you're given a chance to get him. Unless of course Lafreniere is there, in which case you can.

If Ottawa gets 1 +3, or 2 + 3 I say Rossi is gone.
 

calder candidate

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There are some very talented players of average size and less (especially picking at 8 or 9, or better), but I feel that this team has to find some talented players who are above 6 feet (who also conform to the speed requirement of the modern game), assuming that St-Louis and a number of other top teams stick to their formulas for success, especially since this team already has several small players on the NHL squad. That said, it's also true that it needs more high-level talent... period.

On an unrelated note, I'm intrigued by the fanspeak website with the draft simulations. I find that my own performance, albeit based on naive considerations, improves with the number of sims that I do. I wonder if it were possible to reproduce for the Habs this type of simulation (for $100K or so), or at least update it (since fanspeak's choices are a bit dated after all), based on statistical average and variance for each draftee's value among a poll of scouts and random number generators based on those stats. It seems to me that the Habs are too inflexible about their game plan sometimes, and fail to take advantage of some surprises on draft day. Case in point, Pavel Dorofeyev, drafted 79. In my mind, Fairbrother could have waited a round, and we could have Doro at 77. The sim could also replicate trading up or down, based on typical values; to enable us to get the next Pastrnak by trading up 2-3 spots when the opportunity materializes.

I would like to see the Habs test a number of competing strategies, based on multiple runs of these sims, and hone their draft list accordingly, with a little built-in flexibility (not hell-bent on drafting only left-handed defensemen :whaaa?:). Disclaimer: I teach simulation engineering at the university level.
I agree that over the years they seem to pick some player too early especially player that don’t seem to have real potential and seem to target certain player and not adjust to the situation... Simulation can help with reaction or being more comfortable in the situation but can you really improve your skills, since you can pick the player you want but that might not be the right pick. even if your simulations would be very accurate determining which player each team would pick, every error would basically throw away the entire plan, not sure the simulation can really be accurate enough since the determining factor is each team list and how much they want each player. people already kinda know who like who, who they want to pick. simulation is nice and a good way to get more reps but I don’t think you need to put money in simulation, the complexity of the simulation isn’t the issue it is each teams list... if you want to improve you faith, improve the scouting or find a way to hack other teams list...
I just ran the sim with Mtl
I end up picking 10 players that are pick in the 1st or 2nd round in our mock draft... If I ran it again I might improve but clearly the result will only be as good has my list and the simulation is only has good/ accurate as each of the other teams list.
Stuetzle
Gunler
Bourque
Mysak
Peterson
Wiesblatt
Brisson
Evangelista
Chromiak
Daws
Crevier
 

Pompeius Magnus

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2019-20 OHL Coaches Poll Winners – Ontario Hockey League

The OHL coaches poll for the season was released today. Rossi and Perfetti are in the top 3 in a lot of categories, unsurprisingly. Drysdale did well for himself as well. Byfield got ZERO top 3 nods from the coaches, which does surprise me quite a bit. I figured he'd be in the top 3 of the eastern conference for skating at the very least.
 
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Goldenhands

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I saw that Jack Quinn got most improved player in the east.
He is almost a goal per game pace, + 48 while playing on the second line... His +48 differential is pretty indicative of the player, hard work 2-way winger with good size, good hands, high IQ, natural goalscoring skills and not a bad playmaker at all...

Quinn is a very complete player and might end up having a better NHL carreer than Rossi...
 
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Simarino

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He is almost a goal per game pace, + 48 while playing on the second line... His +48 differential is pretty indicative of the player, hard work 2-way winger with good size, good hands, high IQ, natural goalscoring skills and not a bad playmaker at all...

Quinn is a very complete player and might end up having a better NHL carreer than Rossi...

Pretty much the only knock on him, his age, one of the older draftees is im not mistaken... If they really want to satisfy the Montreal’s crowd(if the draft is still in MTL) by drafting a Quebec guy early on, we might be able to grab one of Villeneuve,Lapierre, Barron or Cormier in the 2nd round pretty much all of them would be very good value at that point of the draft.
 
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SpeedyPotato

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I was in Finland when the Pulju draft happened. People had their doubts even back then. I think there wasn't as many doubters in North America, but in Finland he was seen as a risk.

Byfield is a much better player. Like Dach like year, there's no way he goes lower than 4. I say he'll get drafted second.
I personally never was that high on Pulju, but I just didn't like his style, I'm by no means a scouting reference, he just never struck me as a stud when I watched him play
 

Goldenhands

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Pretty much the only knock on him, his age, one of the older draftees is im not mistaken... If they really want to satisfy the Montreal’s crowd(if the draft is still in MTL) by drafting a Quebec guy early on, we might be able to grab one of Villeneuve,Lapierre, Barron or Cormier in the 2nd round pretty much all of them would be very good value at that point of the draft.

I would trade up for Lapierre or Jurmo personally, I would package our 2 2nds to move up and ensure we grab one of them...
Both have huge upside and are likely gone when we pick early 2nd round...
 

Gaylord Q Tinkledink

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Anyone have some odd stats in drafts ? I know size isn't everything, but this draft seems to have players, at least the top part of the draft, on the smaller end.
 

VirginiaMtlExpat

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I agree that over the years they seem to pick some player too early especially player that don’t seem to have real potential and seem to target certain player and not adjust to the situation... Simulation can help with reaction or being more comfortable in the situation but can you really improve your skills, since you can pick the player you want but that might not be the right pick. even if your simulations would be very accurate determining which player each team would pick, every error would basically throw away the entire plan, not sure the simulation can really be accurate enough since the determining factor is each team list and how much they want each player. people already kinda know who like who, who they want to pick. simulation is nice and a good way to get more reps but I don’t think you need to put money in simulation, the complexity of the simulation isn’t the issue it is each teams list... if you want to improve you faith, improve the scouting or find a way to hack other teams list...
I just ran the sim with Mtl
I end up picking 10 players that are pick in the 1st or 2nd round in our mock draft... If I ran it again I might improve but clearly the result will only be as good has my list and the simulation is only has good/ accurate as each of the other teams list.
Stuetzle
Gunler
Bourque
Mysak
Peterson
Wiesblatt
Brisson
Evangelista
Chromiak
Daws
Crevier
The point is the simulation could help them refine their list, as well as make it more dynamic. If you just have a list, then you don't necessarily have a prescription for trading up, when Pastrnak is still available two positions ahead of you (don't wait for your traditional rivals to give you their consent, leapfrog them 1-2 positions).

Edit: this is also why I'm not advocating using the fanspeak website: its info is several months out of date. They would have to poll their scouts and come up with a mean and variance for all 200+ players, then feed that into a discrete event simulation of their own implementation (well, they could use a commercial product for DES like Simio or Arena and just put together the input files these software tools consume). I also advocate some hard and fast rules for trading up, based again on statistics for typical costs based on previous years trade-up transactions.
 
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VirginiaMtlExpat

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Anyone have some odd stats in drafts ? I know size isn't everything, but this draft seems to have players, at least the top part of the draft, on the smaller end.
I'm struck by the same impression as well. A lot of 5'8" to 5'10" players among top-rated forwards, and a surprising number among defencemen as well.
 

calder candidate

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The point is the simulation could help them refine their list, as well as make it more dynamic. If you just have a list, then you don't necessarily have a prescription for trading up, when Pastrnak is still available two positions ahead of you (don't wait for your traditional rivals to give you their consent, leapfrog them 1-2 positions).
But that the thing no simulation will be accurate enough to know which player is being pick when so you can really adjust you list base on the sim info... The sim would also be partly based on list and assumesion that you already have and might not be accurate. The issues isn’t that we didn’t trade up the issue is that we didn’t properly evaluate Pasternak, to even know to trade up, if we would have trade up we might not have drafted Pasternak also even if you want to trade up to move up 2 spots to draft Pasternak you also need the other team be willing to move down.
 

JeffreyLFC

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Byfield is the dream. Obviously.

There is 0% chance he is available at our pick though.

I mean I realize he has disappointed based on his hype and results but his skillset and potential is through the roof. He is one of the rare player that could be a franchise changer if he reach his true potential.
 
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