2020/21 Roster Thread X: Chuck's time to shine

[Curufinwe]

I expect the Flyers to make the playoff next season no matter who is the coach. They've alternated missing and making since the lockout.

But I think the chances of Fletcher firing AV after two years is the same as it was when people thought Hextall might fire Hak after two years. Zero.

 

[deadhead]

One thing teams who put themselves in position to win have are good foot soldiers. These are the types of guys they bring in. Any issues inside the room get solved much quicker. I’d rather have these guys than Andy Andreoff and Nate Prosser.

Prosser was probably that kind of guy in Minnesota. But you have to be a starter to have any credibility in the clubhouse.
I wonder if Niskanen was one of those guys last year, Braun as well, but he's at the point of his career where he'd have less gravitas.

There's a transition period, Farabee might become one of those guys in a few years, but few players in their early 20s can play that role.
Lindblom at least by example.
York might quickly evolve into that guy given his age and pedigree if he makes a smooth transition.

 

[GKJ]

Niskanen was definitely that guy that was a primary reason he was brought in. It’s not like Gudas was a soft dude either.

 

[Beef Invictus]

You don't make those decisions toward the end of a clusterf--k season. What would be the point? Promote Gordon? Been there, done that.
You wait until June, do a thorough review, then do what is necessary, maybe order AV to fire his assistants, revamp the organization (start with the Phantoms), and so on.

It should have been done ages ago. As it stands, it's criminal not to get a fresh voice to with with the goalies. And that should be done immediately.

 

[Striiker]

Shilling so hard he's starting to become AV and Fletcher. Guess Charlie hasn't been watching the team too close this year.

 

[Starat327]

It should have been done ages ago. As it stands, it's criminal not to get a fresh voice to with with the goalies. And that should be done immediately.

Had we made those decisions when the coaches in question demonstrated an inability to do their jobs on this team, we might be having a hugely different conversation altogether.

I would argue that the original decision to hire them should have never been made to begin with, but sometimes mistakes happen. Its your ability to recognize them and correct them that matters, and this organization has shown over the last 5-10 years an inability to identify their mistakes, let alone correct them.

 

[Starat327]

Shilling so hard he's starting to become AV and Fletcher. Guess Charlie hasn't been watching the team too close this year.

Hes muted on twitter for a reason. Lets keep it that way, please.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Shilling so hard he's starting to become AV and Fletcher. Guess Charlie hasn't been watching the team too close this year.

Forget which day, but on a BSH podcast one of the “listeners” called out the beat writers for not coming down harder on this team - management and coaching specifically.

BSH (where Charlie is a regular guest), went on to defend him saying he wants to be more of an analyst as to why things are happening on the ice and stay out of the other stuff.

Charlie O is very much aligned with Fletcher, and openly laughs about fans being upset while he has the ability to stay calm. He knows he isn’t liked by many, and he embraces the role.

 

[Striiker]

Forget which day, but on a BSH podcast one of the “listeners” called out the beat writers for not coming down harder on this team - management and coaching specifically.

BSH (where Charlie is a regular guest), went on to defend him saying he wants to be more of an analyst as to why things are happening on the ice and stay out of the other stuff.

Charlie O is very much aligned with Fletcher, and openly laughs about fans being upset while he has the ability to stay calm. He knows he isn’t liked by many, and he embraces the role.

Yup. He's spineless and completely worthless as a writer, same as Meltzer.

Nothing either of them writes or says has any value when you know who owns their souls.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Maybe it’s in parts the culture of the sport & the fact it’s niche sport but the Flyers certainly have a better control on the media than the other major sports organizations do in this city.

 

[GKJ]

Charlie being ‘not liked’ is materially untrue.

 

[CutOnDime97]

Maybe it’s in parts the culture of the sport & the fact it’s niche sport but the Flyers certainly have a better control on the media than the other major sports organizations do in this city.

Yep, most of the beats are clueless and even the smarter ones take the side of the org for some reason. The radio host types in the city pretty much just ignore hockey all together. Macnow has been calling out this team but has also placed a lot of the blame on Giroux, think he just doesn't understand hockey.

Certainly a ton of downsides to having Eagles-like attention on a team but AV's seat would be on fire if this Flyers team had that. I just want to see an angry Howard Eskin at an AV presser.

 

[deadhead]

Ghost will be exposed to Seattle along with Voracek and JVR, and is the most likely to be chosen, unless Seattle wants to spend their cap money elsewhere and take Hagg - but given they have to hit a minimum, the Flyers offer value for accepting these contracts.

If Ghost isn't selected, he won't be hard to move, 2yr/$9M isn't a big deal, maybe a little overpriced for a 3rd pair/PP specialist, but some teams will see him as a top 4 guy and be willing to pay the price. Time to move on for both parties, York is already on board as his replacement, and Zamula isn't far behind.

They'll have to retain money/take a contract to move Voracek and JVR, but not a huge amount, shave Voracek to $6M a year and there will be lots of takers, JVR to $5M. So either retain $2M or have a scrub veteran included who you can buyout or bury in LHV. Heck, you might get that overpriced veteran physical RHD with a couple years left on his deal in return.

Whether AV survives next season, you don't want a new coach to walk into a situation with a bunch of overpriced aging veterans who can't close the deal. Rather to keep building around the young players and find a Sullivan/Keefe type to coach them up.

 

[flyerslducks]

Stacked forward lineup was something we had this year too. Frost has proven nothing. One thing this team lacks is winners, something Perry and Martinez both are.

People want this team to move forward, that means removing the excuses. It’s very clear accountability is a problem.

im all for that but we need winners that provide something. Perry is a slow player that isn't really that good anymore. We can easily find an agitator that can provide more on the 4th line...like kill pks

 

[BringBackHakstol]

Paying to get rid of a top 4 defensemen is exactly what I expect cluckles to do.

 

[GKJ]

im all for that but we need winners that provide something. Perry is a slow player that isn't really that good anymore. We can easily find an agitator that can provide more on the 4th line...like kill pks

who said Perry was still good?

there’s things he does but no one is under false illusions as to what he is. That whole 4th line is getting a makeover there will be ample opportunity for various roles to be filled.

 

[flyersnorth]

Shilling so hard he's starting to become AV and Fletcher. Guess Charlie hasn't been watching the team too close this year.

I mean, there's nothing egregiously out of place in his thinking.

I hope we keep Ghost, he's a top 3 dynamic player on this team, but you have to admit the relationship between him and the organization does seem to be strained - has been for years. Something's off, and I'm not sure what it is.

We do need help on defense, and I agree that Myers has not earned a "lock" to be 2nd pairing guy. He's still early in his NHL career. Nothing wrong with that.

He didn't mention goalie, but that will be a top priority too - hopefully someone who can actually be a 1A/1B with Hart because if Hart continues to struggle, the next man up needs to be able to carry the workload AND deliver at least mediocre goaltending. Preferably GOOD goaltending. Elliott's time has run its course.

 

[dragonoffrost]

I wonder what the legit chances of Ghost/JVR/Voracek all not being here next year?

I can see 2 of the 3 gone at max. If all 3 are gone Fletch is going scorched earth.

 

[deadhead]

Paying to get rid of a top 4 defensemen is exactly what I expect cluckles to do.

If he was considered a top 4 defenseman around the league, 2yr/$9M wouldn't block a trade.
So either a few fan boys here are wrong, or we won't have to pay to play.

 

[deadhead]

I can see 2 of the 3 gone at max. If all 3 are gone Fletch is going scorched earth.

After this season, wouldn't you go "scorched earth" if you were a GM.
As much as I blame it on horrendous goalie play, the team lacks fire and has become complacent (we'll shove AV out the door and ignore the next HC).
So if I'm the GM, I want to shake up the team, and give the young players the understanding that no player is sacrosanct (well, maybe G).

 

[dragonoffrost]

After this season, wouldn't you go "scorched earth" if you were a GM.
As much as I blame it on horrendous goalie play, the team lacks fire and has become complacent (we'll shove AV out the door and ignore the next HC).
So if I'm the GM, I want to shake up the team, and give the young players the understanding that no player is sacrosanct (well, maybe G).

Really the only way 2 are going is one via trade and the second to Seattle. I doubt they trade 2 of the 3.

 

[flyerslducks]

define stacked? This forward group, beyond G, Couturier and more rarely Jake and TK is far from “stacked.”

stacked as in there isn't much room. Like it or not, there are two ways we go this offseason: we make a few trades or we stand pat with a few moves. Its going to be hard to unload contracts elsewhere during the covid climate and Fletcher hasn't shown us he is willing to make a big move yet.

Teams are going to be hesitant to give up anything for guys with multiple years left on contracts who are over 30 without the Flyers picking up most of their salary. The Flyers have no readably available replacements. Sure, they could move them to create "change" or whatever, but simply getting worse isn't anything but change for change's sake, especially considering the Flyers will likely be eating salary, or signing the next JVR in FA.

I simply don't see the Flyers capable of a major shakeup. Not today. Not this offseason. I think if you want one, you're going to be disappointed. They're going to have to make due with this roster, and these players. This is why I was hesitant on the JVR and the Hayes deals when they got them, and I'm not super jazzed about the Laughton one, either. The Flyers have signed players to long term deals; and when you sign players to term, there comes a time when you inevitably go "yeah I don't want that guy any more" but you get stuck in a corner. Welcome to the corner.

This year has been awful, no good, and unfun. They're miserable to watch. They're frustrating. Every single player seems to just be the worst version of themselves right now. The best hope is likely going to be that this was a funky year, and a funky month, and things snowballed on them. I think some coaching shakeup (on the PP and the PK) will need to be made if AV is staying at the minimum. I expect they can move one or two players this offseason for some changes, but overall, the base frame of the 2021-2022 season is going to be generally the same. Fans love to shot "well if we just trade this guy I don't want..." and then get mad when other teams don't want the players/contracts they, themselves, don't want. So I think if you're expecting a monster shakeup...it's not coming. This season is likely over and we're dead in the water. Hopefully next year is better. And I'm not sure what our players are anymore. I think there's good players. But who knows any more since we are now going on another missed year? This was supposed to be a contending year after a promising run last year and we took a massive step back. We aren't just going to make changes and win the cup all of a sudden so whatever we do its going to be another process.

REALISTICALLY, i think we lose one of laughotn/hagg/braun or even JVR if we are lucky, we trade for a top 4 d, sign a reliable backup, and call it a day. That would mean we will have 2/3 of laughton/hagg/braun back + the roster remains intact. Sorry for the essay lmaaooooooo

 

[BillDineen]

Charlie has nearly gone full Meltzer. That is where you adopt the Flyers' organizational viewpoints without question. He is getting worse and worse, month after month.