2020/21 Roster Thread X: Chuck's time to shine

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Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
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AV led them to nothing. He threw out the regular season system to play a coward's shell and Hart plus a few others dragged them team on their backs.
The 6th best record in the league and the Flyers' first playoff series win in 8 years, after missing the playoffs the year prior, isn't "nothing," regardless of your inability to acknowledge anything the least bit positive about Vigneault.
 

Beef Invictus

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The 6th best record in the league and the Flyers' first playoff series win in 8 years, after missing the playoffs the year prior, isn't "nothing," regardless of your inability to acknowledge anything the least bit positive about Vigneault.

I acknowledge the positives of the season all the time. In fact, the success of the season just emphasizes the pure stupidity in the playoffs

He was a massive negative in the playoffs and he held the team back. NYR fans warned us and they were right on the money
 

FlyerNutter

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The 6th best record in the league and the Flyers' first playoff series win in 8 years, after missing the playoffs the year prior, isn't "nothing," regardless of your inability to acknowledge anything the least bit positive about Vigneault.

Even going with that train of thought, it’s one season. What has happened this year? Regression on all forms and most importantly by the youngsters.

The loyalty being shown by Fletcher is on Hextall levels.

I’d openly put a small amount of money that after he is fired, he’s going to struggle to find another NHL HC job. He’s lost that room. It will come out one day what he’s done behind closed doors. It’s going to be very illuminating.

Hart is the most important piece here going forward. More important than Couturier, etc. The way he has been treated this season is an unforgivable sin. We don’t even know half of it either.

If he’s throwing guys to the wolves in the media so willingly, what’s that room like inside? That style doesn’t work today.
 

BringBackHakstol

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Oct 25, 2005
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Stacked forward lineup was something we had this year too. Frost has proven nothing. One thing this team lacks is winners, something Perry and Martinez both are.

People want this team to move forward, that means removing the excuses. It’s very clear accountability is a problem.

Getting a couple washed up 35 year old players isn't going to fix this team
 

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
22,590
16,402
Even going with that train of thought, it’s one season. What has happened this year? Regression on all forms and most importantly by the youngsters.

The loyalty being shown by Fletcher is on Hextall levels.

I’d openly put a small amount of money that after he is fired, he’s going to struggle to find another NHL HC job. He’s lost that room. It will come out one day what he’s done behind closed doors. It’s going to be very illuminating.

Hart is the most important piece here going forward. More important than Couturier, etc. The way he has been treated this season is an unforgivable sin. We don’t even know half of it either.

If he’s throwing guys to the wolves in the media so willingly, what’s that room like inside? That style doesn’t work today.
We'll find out next season.

I think AV has earned the chance to prove this strange, short, COVID season was an aberration, exacerbated by unpredictably hideous goaltending.

Hell, the team was barely able to even practice.

If they play the same way next season, he will be fired. I don't think they will.
 
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deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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They don't have to reset the entire roster.
Fletcher can see this team needs to be reshaped, there's talent but not the right talent.
1) need to be quicker more than fast
2) need to be more physical
3) need more high motor guys
4) need more snipers, fewer "pass first" guys
5) need defensemen who can play defense.

To me, JVR and Voracek are gone, b/c they're big but soft and not that quick and very expensive. And they'll be 32 on a team that needs to look to the future.
Ghost really depends on the ED and who else they add, he's a luxury item with York coming up, at 28 not a building block.
NAK will be on the bubble, he fits speed and physical, but not high motor or smart (too many stupid penalties)

I think they'll be patient with Patrick and Lindblom, good metrics, horrid PDO, type of players you'd want to acquire cheap so why sell cheap?
I think TK punches all the buttons except a bit undersized and sometimes loses focus, but he's young enough to be patient.
Farabee, Frost, Provorov, untouchable.
Sanheim is a tough one, lots of potential, good metrics but bad D-zone defense, "make me an offer I can't refuse"
Myers, bad year but he's just hit 100 games, can't see them giving up on him
G & C, I can't see G leaving, Couts is trickier, 30 when an extension starts, how will he age?

They've moved out Raffl and Gus, Elliott is gone, if they move JVR and Voracek they're a very young team, so I can see them bringing in the right veteran or two to hold hands. G & Couts lead by example, but aren't the types to ream their teammates for sloppy or lazy play. Braun might stay around to mentor 3rd pair partners, he shouldn't be in the top four and that was never their plan.

So in the end, unless the right deal comes along (elite player 25 or under), I don't see many kids on the block, but some veterans, yes.
 

TCTC

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Mar 25, 2013
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Even going with that train of thought, it’s one season. What has happened this year? Regression on all forms and most importantly by the youngsters.

The loyalty being shown by Fletcher is on Hextall levels.

I’d openly put a small amount of money that after he is fired, he’s going to struggle to find another NHL HC job. He’s lost that room. It will come out one day what he’s done behind closed doors. It’s going to be very illuminating.

Hart is the most important piece here going forward. More important than Couturier, etc. The way he has been treated this season is an unforgivable sin. We don’t even know half of it either.

If he’s throwing guys to the wolves in the media so willingly, what’s that room like inside? That style doesn’t work today.
Hextall kept Hakstol for 4 years and maybe would've kept him even longer.

AV is still in his second season. He had a good first season. His second season has been pretty bad, but there's still a chance we see last season's team again next year. If not, he'll be gone.
This situation isn't comparable to the Hextall/Hakstol debacle.
 

Beef Invictus

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Hextall kept Hakstol for 4 years and maybe would've kept him even longer.

AV is still in his second season. He had a good first season. His second season has been pretty bad, but there's still a chance we see last season's team again next year. If not, he'll be gone.
This situation isn't comparable to the Hextall/Hakstol debacle.

If he stands by his public refusal to turn over any coaches, then it is directly comparable. MT, Yeo, Lappy, and Dillabaugh should all be gone at minimum.
 

GKJ

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Feb 27, 2002
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Getting a couple washed up 35 year old players isn't going to fix this team

One thing teams who put themselves in position to win have are good foot soldiers. These are the types of guys they bring in. Any issues inside the room get solved much quicker. I’d rather have these guys than Andy Andreoff and Nate Prosser.
 

TCTC

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Mar 25, 2013
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If he stands by his public refusal to turn over any coaches, then it is directly comparable. MT, Yeo, Lappy, and Dillabaugh should all be gone at minimum.
He's not going to say publicly he'll fire the coaches. I'm sure the evaluation process has just begun.
 

FlyerNutter

In the forest, a man learns what it means to live
Jun 22, 2018
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Hextall kept Hakstol for 4 years and maybe would've kept him even longer.

AV is still in his second season. He had a good first season. His second season has been pretty bad, but there's still a chance we see last season's team again next year. If not, he'll be gone.
This situation isn't comparable to the Hextall/Hakstol debacle.

I allude to it being worse because this season has been worse than any under Hakstol. Hak never had a sniff of the talent level available to AV. The regression by basically ever young player except Farabee is unforgivable. For a club who’s future does lie in its youth that’s beyond unacceptable.

Hakstol was trash, but he never was so willing to throw his guys out to the media. Perhaps I hold this against him stronger than others, but in 2021 this doesn’t work. It’s a failed motivational tool.

I’m not a PC guy by any means, but he’s an arrogant asshole along with MT. I firmly believe that. Nobody wants to play for someone like that for long, especially when things aren’t going well.

I say he’s worse, because while Hakstol had his clear flaws he by all accounts didn’t treat his players this way.
 

Beef Invictus

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He's not going to say publicly he'll fire the coaches. I'm sure the evaluation process has just begun.

The guy stuck with Yeo for too long and has exhibited unparalleled cronyism, which is saying a lot for a Flyers GM

The fact that none of them have already been fired does little to support the notion that he will suddenly change his mind. They all already earned firings several times over this season.
 

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
22,590
16,402
They don't have to reset the entire roster.
Fletcher can see this team needs to be reshaped, there's talent but not the right talent.
1) need to be quicker more than fast
2) need to be more physical
3) need more high motor guys
4) need more snipers, fewer "pass first" guys
5) need defensemen who can play defense.

To me, JVR and Voracek are gone, b/c they're big but soft and not that quick and very expensive. And they'll be 32 on a team that needs to look to the future.
Ghost really depends on the ED and who else they add, he's a luxury item with York coming up, at 28 not a building block.
NAK will be on the bubble, he fits speed and physical, but not high motor or smart (too many stupid penalties)

I think they'll be patient with Patrick and Lindblom, good metrics, horrid PDO, type of players you'd want to acquire cheap so why sell cheap?
I think TK punches all the buttons except a bit undersized and sometimes loses focus, but he's young enough to be patient.
Farabee, Frost, Provorov, untouchable.
Sanheim is a tough one, lots of potential, good metrics but bad D-zone defense, "make me an offer I can't refuse"
Myers, bad year but he's just hit 100 games, can't see them giving up on him
G & C, I can't see G leaving, Couts is trickier, 30 when an extension starts, how will he age?

They've moved out Raffl and Gus, Elliott is gone, if they move JVR and Voracek they're a very young team, so I can see them bringing in the right veteran or two to hold hands. G & Couts lead by example, but aren't the types to ream their teammates for sloppy or lazy play. Braun might stay around to mentor 3rd pair partners, he shouldn't be in the top four and that was never their plan.

So in the end, unless the right deal comes along (elite player 25 or under), I don't see many kids on the block, but some veterans, yes.
I can't see both JVR and Voracek being gone. No team is going to take on those contracts with the cap the way it is. The only way I see them getting rid of either is if Seattle takes one in the expansion draft, since Seattle doesn't have any existing cap constraints to worry about. But that means one of them will be gone (whomever Seattle chooses), not both.
 

Starat327

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Rebels57

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Frost could have had a Farabee level season if he hadn’t got hurt on a routine play. No hockey player would prefer shoulder surgery to actually playing.

I was being facetious. Obviously it would be better for him to be able to play. Even if it would be in one of the worst seasons in franchise history in a complete tire fire that has sucked the soul out of both the players and fanbase.
 
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Rebels57

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Hextall kept Hakstol for 4 years and maybe would've kept him even longer.

AV is still in his second season. He had a good first season. His second season has been pretty bad, but there's still a chance we see last season's team again next year. If not, he'll be gone.
This situation isn't comparable to the Hextall/Hakstol debacle.

I am truly baffled that you can watch this season and think that's even a remote possibility. This group is not going to recover from this under AV because AV is the reason this fell apart. The only hope for a rebound in 21-22 is under a new coaching staff.
 
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Flyerfan4life

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We'll find out next season.

I think AV has earned the chance to prove this strange, short, COVID season was an aberration, exacerbated by unpredictably hideous goaltending.

Hell, the team was barely able to even practice.

If they play the same way next season, he will be fired. I don't think they will.

so we are wasting next season to ?

cool... same as it ever was...
 
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deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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If he stands by his public refusal to turn over any coaches, then it is directly comparable. MT, Yeo, Lappy, and Dillabaugh should all be gone at minimum.

You don't make those decisions toward the end of a clusterf--k season. What would be the point? Promote Gordon? Been there, done that.
You wait until June, do a thorough review, then do what is necessary, maybe order AV to fire his assistants, revamp the organization (start with the Phantoms), and so on.
 

FlyerNutter

In the forest, a man learns what it means to live
Jun 22, 2018
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Winnipeg
so we are wasting next season to ?

cool... same as it ever was...

If there isn’t a concrete step forward next season, and I mean beyond just making the playoffs as that’s really all their goal seems to be...

If we don’t see true progression toward a championship Couturier needs to be dealt, and a realization of what must truly be done happening.

Fletcher is going to have the bullseye on him after this upcoming offseason though, and probably more than AV. Rightfully so.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
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I can't see both JVR and Voracek being gone. No team is going to take on those contracts with the cap the way it is. The only way I see them getting rid of either is if Seattle takes one in the expansion draft, since Seattle doesn't have any existing cap constraints to worry about. But that means one of them will be gone (whomever Seattle chooses), not both.

Oh you can move anyone if you'll retain money/take a bad contract. See the Schenn deal.
Flyers can always bury a player in the AHL to save a million, or negotiate a buyout.

Voracek at $5-6M for three years would be in demand, same with JVR, they'd be very attractive to teams that need scoring at the right price.
They're still solid players, just a bit overpriced.
That's why you see scrubs included in these deals, to shed a year or two of salary, and by the end of Voracek's deal, the cap will be rising again.
Ghost will probably be taken by Seattle.
 
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