2020-21 Flyers Season Summer Lamentations

[Domino666]

Yeah, it definitely takes a while.

It's just that we never really bottomed out during that period, and the one time we were rewarded with a high pick, we end up with Patrick.

Compare that to the Leafs who bottomed out and got Marner and Matthews. And then managed to attract and sign Tavares.

The Rangers sold off parts and lucked in to Lafreniere and Kakko. KK may end up being just ok, but Lafreniere will be a stud. They also signed elite talent in Fox and Panarin.

The Devils bottomed out and got Hischier and Hughes.

I don't see our roster competing with the stronger Metro teams in the near future... especially with the Canes coming back to our division.

Carolina, Rangers, Isles, Caps, Pens - that's 5 teams ahead of us.

Fletch has to make this summer count.

Which he won’t unless he can sign Parise and Sutter

 

[Deadpool8812]

I think the golf courses are open.

They will be on Saturday, but they haven't been for a month.

This is likely in response to Golf Ontario suing the government for wrongful closure

 

[dragonoffrost]

Yeah, it definitely takes a while.

It's just that we never really bottomed out during that period, and the one time we were rewarded with a high pick, we end up with Patrick.

Compare that to the Leafs who bottomed out and got Marner and Matthews. And then managed to attract and sign Tavares.

The Rangers sold off parts and lucked in to Lafreniere and Kakko. KK may end up being just ok, but Lafreniere will be a stud. They also signed elite talent in Fox and Panarin.

The Devils bottomed out and got Hischier and Hughes.

I don't see our roster competing with the stronger Metro teams in the near future... especially with the Canes coming back to our division.

Carolina, Rangers, Isles, Caps, Pens - that's 5 teams ahead of us.

Fletch has to make this summer count.

Lose Boston gain Carolina... it's a wash.

 

[flyersnorth]

Lose Boston gain Carolina... it's a wash.

True, although it feels like the Canes are on the rise, and the Bruins are on the decline.

 

[deadhead]

"But it doesn't hurt to have Barkov (25) #2, Ekblad (24) #1, Huberdeau (27) #3 as your core players"-Dead

But then also doesn't want to trade for a possible 90 pt player in Eichel drafted #2 overall

The irony

Didn't say I wouldn't trade for him if the price was right.
But if you had to list off season priorities, more offense from the forwards would be down on the list.
I mean JT didn't do much to make Toronto better, b/c to pay him they basically let their 3rd line walk, and didn't shore up their defense.

 

[Amorgus]

Jack's ticked!
McCaffery: Flyers fans deserve better than hollow excuses and promises from management

This article should be printed in mass quantities and dropped via helicopter over everyone in the front office daily. Hot glue it to their cars too.

 

[FLYERSFAN18]

Didn't say I wouldn't trade for him if the price was right.
But if you had to list off season priorities, more offense from the forwards would be down on the list.
I mean JT didn't do much to make Toronto better, b/c to pay him they basically let their 3rd line walk, and didn't shore up their defense.

Tavares is definitely a luxury for them but where is the Flyers Auston Matthews? We don’t have anyone of that caliber and likely won’t get close drafting unless we full on tank for 5 years. Next best option would be to trade for Eichel.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Tavares is definitely a luxury for them but where is the Flyers Auston Matthews? We don’t have anyone of that caliber and likely won’t get close drafting unless we full on tank for 5 years. Next best option would be to trade for Eichel.

Our Matthews was Giroux. We wasted him.

 

[deadhead]

Tavares is definitely a luxury for them but where is the Flyers Auston Matthews? We don’t have anyone of that caliber and likely won’t get close drafting unless we full on tank for 5 years. Next best option would be to trade for Eichel.

Eichel isn't that caliber either. Matthews is the second best goal producer in the NHL after Ovechkin. They're on another level.

Eichel would probably put up 50-60 ES points here and 20-25 on the PP (he'd play a minute or two less in Philly, he'd be the 2C for one thing, no, he's not as good as Couts). But that also reduces other players' minutes, so it's not completely a net gain. Say 30 extra points, that's about 12 goals (2.5 points per goal). Which is probably optimistic, given Eichel's pp/60 is similar to say TK or whoever is traded for him - so not a huge net gain. Nice, but it ain't going to turn this team from pretender to contender.

What will turn the Flyers into a SC contender:
1) fix the goaltending
2) solidify the defense
3) continue to develop the young forwards, Frost, Allison, getting Lindblom healthy, Patrick finding his mojo, Laczynski as an exceptional 4C who can move up, what do you think the cumulative impact will be?

The Flyers have eight forwards who score at a 1st line/top half second line rate:
G, Couts, Farabee, TK, Voracek, JVR, Hayes, Lindblom at 100%. (if you don't believe me, ask @Appleyard)
Frost and Allison have that potential, and Laughton is close to middle 2nd line level scoring.
And Laczynski showed in college he has solid offensive chops, while if Foerster plays in the AHL next year, he could be pushing for a job in the spring.

Offense from forwards is probably the strongest aspect of this team.

 

[FLYERSFAN18]

Our Matthews was Giroux. We wasted him.

Agreed

 

[Magua]

Boy, if we acquired Eichel and his reasonable point range was 70-85, after averaging 87 points per 82 games the previous 3 seasons on Buffalo......you’d have to think this confirms the organization is truly elite at devaluing its best players.

 

[FLYERSFAN18]

Eichel isn't that caliber either. Matthews is the second best goal producer in the NHL after Ovechkin. They're on another level.

Eichel would probably put up 50-60 ES points here and 20-25 on the PP (he'd play a minute or two less in Philly, he'd be the 2C for one thing, no, he's not as good as Couts). But that also reduces other players' minutes, so it's not completely a net gain. Say 30 extra points, that's about 12 goals (2.5 points per goal). Which is probably optimistic, given Eichel's pp/60 is similar to say TK or whoever is traded for him - so not a huge net gain. Nice, but it ain't going to turn this team from pretender to contender.

What will turn the Flyers into a SC contender:
1) fix the goaltending
2) solidify the defense
3) continue to develop the young forwards, Frost, Allison, getting Lindblom healthy, Patrick finding his mojo, Laczynski as an exceptional 4C who can move up, what do you think the cumulative impact will be?

The Flyers have eight forwards who score at a 1st line/top half second line rate:
G, Couts, Farabee, TK, Voracek, JVR, Hayes, Lindblom at 100%. (if you don't believe me, ask @Appleyard)
Frost and Allison have that potential, and Laughton is close to middle 2nd line level scoring.
And Laczynski showed in college he has solid offensive chops, while if Foerster plays in the AHL next year, he could be pushing for a job in the spring.

Offense from forwards is probably the strongest aspect of this team.

So disingenuous and totally on point for you. You were the one comparing us trading for Eichel to Toronto signing Tavares. Which is just a horrible comparison because we don’t have anyone of Matthews talent level and probably not even Eichels.

As far as PP time it really doesn’t matter if the current coaching staff stays because they will f*** it up anyway but I would be surprised if he didn’t get a change at PP1 with G. It would be negligent to not see if it could work.

It’s not as if we have to trade the whole team for this guy, but there are very few players on this team that should be off the table in a trade for Eichel

 

[FlyerNutter]

It’s much more fun to market Hayes as the new star and personality on the team.

This Flyer obsession with trying to win with a bunch of secondary dudes leading the way, and being shocked when they don’t all hit a hot streak at the same time - is intriguing to me.

 

[deadhead]

Boy, if we acquired Eichel and his reasonable point range was 70-85, after averaging 87 points per 82 games the previous 3 seasons on Buffalo......you’d have to think this confirms the organization is truly elite at devaluing its best players.

Or that you don't play as many minutes on a good team as on a bad team?
He averaged 3+ minutes on the PP and 31 points a year in Buffalo.
17 minutes at ES.

He'd probably play 2+ minutes on the PP and 16 minutes at ES (Couts, Giroux, Voracek played 14+ at ES and JVR, Couts and G less than 3 minutes on the PP).
So that would reduce his scoring by 10% or so, especially since he'd be expected to at least try and play defense here.

Four years ago he'd have be a far more valuable addition, when the Flyers couldn't field two solid lines, and he'd instantly be 1A behind Couts with TK on the second line, replacing Filppula at center. Of course, four years ago we didn't have the assets to consider such a trade.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Patrick might or might not be traded this summer is essentially the gist of this. He hasn’t asked for a trade yet (has changed agents, third since he’s been in the league). The Flyers don’t want to just give him away yet. They want to see what he can do with a full healthy offseason.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Boy, if we acquired Eichel and his reasonable point range was 70-85, after averaging 87 points per 82 games the previous 3 seasons on Buffalo......you’d have to think this confirms the organization is truly elite at devaluing its best players.

No PP time, playing 14 minutes a night, on franchise face Hayes' wing

 

[Rebels57]

Patrick might or might not be traded this summer is essentially the gist of this. He hasn’t asked for a trade yet (has changed agents, third since he’s been in the league). The Flyers don’t want to just give him away yet. They want to see what he can do with a full healthy offseason.

He gone.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Gallant to NYR

Mother f***er

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

He gone.

Could be, wouldn’t shock me. Frank’s probably getting some half truths from somebody here for the sake of Patrick’s value.

 

[Tripod]

Boy, if we acquired Eichel and his reasonable point range was 70-85, after averaging 87 points per 82 games the previous 3 seasons on Buffalo......you’d have to think this confirms the organization is truly elite at devaluing its best players.

You keep ignoring, we don't have that solid vet like Okposo for him to play with.

 

[Magua]

He gone.

It sounded like the ball was in his court more than the Flyers — if he wanted a fresh start. Not that he said he did. To the Flyers credit, they gave him a top 9 spot (even RW) and PP time for a good chunk of the year. Playing him with Coots was something worth trying though, which they did not.

Is the value cost of a late 2/early 3 worth it, from the Flyers perspective? I don’t think it’s worth it. His first two seasons still exist. We mentioned Cody Glass as a swap, but short of that, I just don’t know what incentive the Flyers have. I think if Frost didn’t miss a year that changes. But it’s impossible for him to repeat the same puck luck he had this season, even with zero improvement.

 

[deadhead]

The odds that a late 2nd will be a top 9 forward? 14% (400 games or more played)?
So match that against the odds that Patrick with a full off season and no longer worried that the next hit will end his career will rebound.

 

[Rebels57]

It sounded like the ball was in his court more than the Flyers — if he wanted a fresh start. Not that he said he did. To the Flyers credit, they gave him a top 9 spot (even RW) and PP time for a good chunk of the year. Playing him with Coots was something worth trying though, which they did not.

Is the value cost of a late 2/early 3 worth it, from the Flyers perspective? I don’t think it’s worth it. His first two seasons still exist. We mentioned Cody Glass as a swap, but short of that, I just don’t know what incentive the Flyers have. I think if Frost didn’t miss a year that changes. But it’s impossible for him to repeat the same puck luck he had this season, even with zero improvement.

I share your thoughts on this. I wouldnt move him for a pick unless it was a 1st, which no one is ponying up (although maybe we should call Benning).

I would swap him for Glass, as we've discussed before.

I think he goes as part of a bigger deal though. We shall see.

 

[Curufinwe]

Boy, if we acquired Eichel and his reasonable point range was 70-85, after averaging 87 points per 82 games the previous 3 seasons on Buffalo......you’d have to think this confirms the organization is truly elite at devaluing its best players.

G had 102 points as 30 year old (under Hak ) so I would hope Eichel could at least do the same in his mid/late 20s.

Jake, Coots* and Ghost also had their best scoring seasons that year, and I don’t think any of them will ever top it.

 

[deadhead]

G had 102 points as 30 year old (under Hak ) so I would hope Eichel could at least do the same in his mid/late 20s.

Jake, Coots* and Ghost also had their best scoring seasons that year, and I don’t think any of them will ever top it.

And they still lost in the 1st round, lack of depth, below average defensemen and mediocre goalies.