Speculation: 2020-2021 Sharks Roster Discussion Part 9

[Dicdonya]

I agree with you on most things, especially in the statement of stop giving out such restrictive NTCs (new policy, no fewer than 8 team list) and the fact that both Meier/LaBanc have not done enough to be consider core players to build around. I wanted to get your (collective) thoughts on two pre-expansion trade ideas I had for both value and team needs, along with one more UFA signing.

1. Meier + LaBanc + Dahlin's rights to Buffalo for Sam Reinhart's signing rights + Bos 2nd + Buff 2022 2nd (We then sign Reinhart for around 7 x 7)

2. Take the Boston 2nd from the above to Florida for Dreidger's Rights (sign him to a 4M x 3 and then protect him from expansion)

3. Sign one of Granlund/Wenneberg for 3C duties at 4M (1 years)

Next year we would look like:

Kane - Hertl - Barbanov
Couture - Reinhart - Balcers
Donato - Granlund - Leonard
Nieto - Gambrell - Reedy
13F

Ferraro - Karlsson
Simek (unless he is taken) - Burns
Vlasic - Kniazev
7D

Dreidger
Jones

Obviously, this is the DW hail mary to make the playoffs, not the Tank in 22/23 option. Both Reinhart and Dreidger deals assume we talk extension terms with the players before pulling the trigger.
Thoughts?

Looks like some deck chair re aligning to me.

Our defense is still essentially the same one that has been dogshit for three years now. So outside of the usual prayers for any of Vlasic, Burns or Karlsson to revert to their old ways, we are still likely to get murdered defensively.

--Also as a side note not directed to you, lets be honest, at this point now having three years worth of evidence, I think its no longer a matter of praying those guys revert to their old ways, but instead its time to accept that Karlsson does not fit on this team, or defense, and that as long as both him and Burns are on this team, we will have a shitty defense. DW made his biggest mistake ever re signing Karlsson, and unless a miracle happens and DW can offload him or Burns, or we rebuild the team specifically to cater to Karlsson, we are screwed defensively for a while, and also getting minimal returns from Karlsson offensively. He was a fine luxury addition when we got him, but I think its shockingly clear now that the experiment of having two superstar offensive defenseman, with shaky defensive games, who were going to both eat up 30 mins a game and rack of billions of points was nothing more than a pipe dream.--

Dreidger is just another Jones before we got him, but with a handful more games played. Also with this team being basically the same, even after your moves, I still strongly believe any goalie outside of a true stud is going to get destroyed. On top of that we are paying him 4m for 3 years....with 30ish games of experience, seems like a rather bad decision given our current goalie situation after we rushed to sign Jones long term after like 1 good season, which was still far more sample size than Dreidger has.

Lastly, replacing Meier and Labanc with Reinhart and Balcers, is not really much, if any, of an upgrade to our top 6 than we entered the season with. Reinhart is a fine player, but IF Meier plays to his capabilities the difference between them is super minimal. Also while I totally agree Cooch is a bad center, there is no guarantee he is any better as a winger, so you might be hamstringing Reinhart from the very get go.

So while anything can happen, that lineup on paper gives me exactly zero hope that it would perform any better than this years roster did.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Can we get both of them?

I think the point of getting Samsonov would be to get him away from Kuznetsov.

 

[TheBeard]

I have a hunch we are going to make a trade with Washington before the expansion draft for Eller and either Samsonov or Vanecek (whichever one they don't want to protect). I hope a 2021 3rd+2022 2nd is enough. Really don't like the idea of giving up anyone we drafted last year.

Do they even have to protect either?

 

[hotcabbagesoup]

I think the point of getting Samsonov would be to get him away from Kuznetsov.

They look inseparable. I don't think it's good idea to break hearts in this situation. They come together.

 

[one2gamble]

I think the point of getting Samsonov would be to get him away from Kuznetsov.

No fun

 

[Nolan11]

I think he’s a good buy-low candidate. I think his numbers were affected by the fallout from his off-ice issues. I could be totally wrong but I see a talented young goalie struggling through some personal stuff who needs a change of scenery to get back on the right track. If we want a “goalie of the future” I think he’s a reasonable choice.

Would be worth kicking the tires

 

[Nolan11]

Looks like some deck chair re aligning to me.

Our defense is still essentially the same one that has been dogshit for three years now. So outside of the usual prayers for any of Vlasic, Burns or Karlsson to revert to their old ways, we are still likely to get murdered defensively.

--Also as a side note not directed to you, lets be honest, at this point now having three years worth of evidence, I think its no longer a matter of praying those guys revert to their old ways, but instead its time to accept that Karlsson does not fit on this team, or defense, and that as long as both him and Burns are on this team, we will have a shitty defense. DW made his biggest mistake ever re signing Karlsson, and unless a miracle happens and DW can offload him or Burns, or we rebuild the team specifically to cater to Karlsson, we are screwed defensively for a while, and also getting minimal returns from Karlsson offensively. He was a fine luxury addition when we got him, but I think its shockingly clear now that the experiment of having two superstar offensive defenseman, with shaky defensive games, who were going to both eat up 30 mins a game and rack of billions of points was nothing more than a pipe dream.--

Dreidger is just another Jones before we got him, but with a handful more games played. Also with this team being basically the same, even after your moves, I still strongly believe any goalie outside of a true stud is going to get destroyed. On top of that we are paying him 4m for 3 years....with 30ish games of experience, seems like a rather bad decision given our current goalie situation after we rushed to sign Jones long term after like 1 good season, which was still far more sample size than Dreidger has.

Lastly, replacing Meier and Labanc with Reinhart and Balcers, is not really much, if any, of an upgrade to our top 6 than we entered the season with. Reinhart is a fine player, but IF Meier plays to his capabilities the difference between them is super minimal. Also while I totally agree Cooch is a bad center, there is no guarantee he is any better as a winger, so you might be hamstringing Reinhart from the very get go.

So while anything can happen, that lineup on paper gives me exactly zero hope that it would perform any better than this years roster did.

I appreciate you specifically saying your comments are not directed at me, personally. Too often folk have opposing ideas and it snowballs into unnecessary attacks.

My thoughts on this off season and yours differ some, but you are spot on in the defense needs to change. I just think we wont be moving any of our three defenders (partly DW, partly dance partners). I also kinda doubt we move any of our limited NTCs. That left Meier and LaBanc. Mostly, pulling in Reinhart (and a year or two of a young UFA center) would fix our down the middle issues, which should help the defense some. We are not going to hit a home run, but 1-2 big changes that address current holes would be a start.

 

[Dicdonya]

I appreciate you specifically saying your comments are not directed at me, personally. Too often folk have opposing ideas and it snowballs into unnecessary attacks.

My thoughts on this off season and yours differ some, but you are spot on in the defense needs to change. I just think we wont be moving any of our three defenders (partly DW, partly dance partners). I also kinda doubt we move any of our limited NTCs. That left Meier and LaBanc. Mostly, pulling in Reinhart (and a year or two of a young UFA center) would fix our down the middle issues, which should help the defense some. We are not going to hit a home run, but 1-2 big changes that address current holes would be a start.

I definitely get what you were going for, and I do not in any way hate the moves you made, I just think unfortunately we are more than a solid 2c away from competing for anything without far bigger moves made elsewhere. I agree we probably cant/wont trade any of the big guys, which is why I think your proposal while agreeable to me from a value perspective, is just not really going to do much to actually alter this teams near term future.

However if DW stays, and its true he is not going to rebuild even now, then I certainly would not hate seeing your moves be made in the off chance I am very wrong and it leads to something great.

 

[OffSydes]

They look inseparable. I don't think it's good idea to break hearts in this situation. They come together.

This is where Logan jumps in and comforts him about having all your friends traded asway

 

[stator]

Whats with all this talk about trading Meier for scraps? If the Goodrow trade returned a 1st, Meier should return more.

Scraps or bag of pucks would be Jones.

 

[thrillermiller89]

Would you guys do Vlasic for Bobrovsky (1.5 retained on Bob)? Both caps shake out to 8.5

 

[thrillermiller89]

I can agree with you that if we aren't getting THAT return, he needs to stay a Shark and look to rebound next season. I would add to that, if we don't have a 2nd line center to facilitate for Meier hes going to have another sub par season. Couture needs to return to form, and fast.

What about Meier to the Devils for NYI 1st and 2nd, plus Zacha?

 

[thrillermiller89]

Whats with all this talk about trading Meier for scraps? If the Goodrow trade returned a 1st, Meier should return more.

Scraps or bag of pucks would be Jones.

Despite the down year, Meier proved he can score 30/30 in the NHL. His value is at LEAST a Top 10 pick (on par with where he was drafted) if not higher since he’s a proven commodity. His draft pedigree, age, and contract/term should help aid in this value as well.

 

[thrillermiller89]

Duplicate post

 

[Juxtaposer]

Whats with all this talk about trading Meier for scraps? If the Goodrow trade returned a 1st, Meier should return more.

Scraps or bag of pucks would be Jones.

Agreed. I think trading Meier this off-season would be extremely shortsighted. Y’all know I’m hardly Meier’s biggest fan, but I think we should give him a season to rebound before packaging him off.

Would you guys do Vlasic for Bobrovsky (1.5 retained on Bob)? Both caps shake out to 8.5

Absolutely not. You can hide a mediocre defenseman on the third pairing. You can’t hide a mediocre goaltender. I think Bobrovsky is the worst contract in the league.

 

[thrillermiller89]

Agreed. I think trading Meier this off-season would be extremely shortsighted. Y’all know I’m hardly Meier’s biggest fan, but I think we should give him a season to rebound before packaging him off.



Absolutely not. You can hide a mediocre defenseman on the third pairing. You can’t hide a mediocre goaltender. I think Bobrovsky is the worst contract in the league.

Bob’s stats are better than Jones. But has he truly been bad since coming to Florida?
I agree that it’s easier to hide a Defenseman on the third pair though. Maybe I’m not as in touch with Bob’s performance since it’s been awhile since I’ve watched him play.

 

[STL Shark]

Would you guys do Vlasic for Bobrovsky (1.5 retained on Bob)? Both caps shake out to 8.5

Not unless FLA adds a 1st round pick on top of it. Get another bad player and spend an extra $1.5 million in the process.

 

[STL Shark]

Can already confirm this is going to be a loooong few months around here as we’ve already come up with every possible way to rephrase and argue the same 3 points and the offseason is only a week old.

 

[Cas]

I thought about Bobrovsky for Vlasic because it fills a position of need and clears out a position of strength, but Bobrovsky's buyout is worse than Vlasic (I checked in two years too) so I'm not sure it's worth it without a sweetener.

 

[Kat Predator]

I thought about Bobrovsky for Vlasic because it fills a position of need and clears out a position of strength, but Bobrovsky's buyout is worse than Vlasic (I checked in two years too) so I'm not sure it's worth it without a sweetener.

What's the position of strength you're referring to?

 

[hohosaregood]

Can already confirm this is going to be a loooong few months around here as we’ve already come up with every possible way to rephrase and argue the same 3 points and the offseason is only a week old.

I think we just need to post hype videos for players we want to acquire/draft. That's really the only solution to this madness.

 

[seroes]

The only contract I would consider trading for Bobrovsky is Karlsson. Even then it's only to get a little cap space and out of the contract 1 year sooner.

 

[Cas]

What's the position of strength you're referring to?

Left-handed defensemen. We have four on the NHL roster now, plus a few decent prospect. It's not a strong corps relative to the league as a whole, mind, just relative to the Sharks.

 

[Kcoyote3]

I think a lot of people are looking at the Bob contract and saying, ah well it's Florida so they must just be a bad team and he could rebound somewhere else. No, he's on a great team and is being outplayed by two goalies who have never made a living in the NHL.

He's cooked. Vlasic can still play hockey on the third pair. Karlsson can still play a top 4 role.

 

[TheBeard]

What's the position of strength you're referring to?

Bad, bloated contracts