Speculation: 2020-2021: Sharks Roster Discussion Part 2 - Offseason

[themelkman]

Both Galchenyuk and Granlund could score 100 points a season but they are so bad defensively that it doesn’t matter because the other team would score 200 with them on the ice.

Gregor.Frolik. Leonard. Sobotka.

I think Granlund is actually pretty good at defense? I havent seen all that much of him in recent years but I remember him being pretty far from a total liability

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

Both Galchenyuk and Granlund could score 100 points a season but they are so bad defensively that it doesn’t matter because the other team would score 200 with them on the ice.

Gregor.Frolik. Leonard. Sobotka.

Frolik is trash. Gregor has a grand total of 25 NHL games. Leonard has never even played professional hockey. Sobotka is really bad.

 

[Gecklund]

Frolik is trash. Gregor has a grand total of 25 NHL games. Leonard has never even played professional hockey. Sobotka is really bad.

And Ryan has not been great for a VERY long time. I suggested adding Ryan as a buy low option. Not as a huge contract. He would just become the next Melker/Sorensen if he signed for 3M.

 

[Jargon]

Man, I’d love Gaudreau.

I desperately want a couple of players who are fast and dangly (that’s right). With Hertl, Kane and Meier we’ve got 3 top 6 forwards who are meaty and can engage physically. Give me someone who can dangle around two guys and score a pretty goal already.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

And Ryan has not been great for a VERY long time. I suggested adding Ryan as a buy low option. Not as a huge contract. He would just become the next Melker/Sorensen if he signed for 3M.

He just hit over 40 points last year...
40 point players are definitely worth 3M a year.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

He just hit over 40 points last year...
40 point players are definitely worth 3M a year.

When you say last year, you mean the year before last where he had 42 points in 78 games. He only played 24 games last year and had 8 points.

My concern with Ryan boils down to his health more than anything else. Giving him 3M is fine if I trusted him to be good for 70+ games, which I do not. I would feel uncomfortable giving him anything over 2M.

 

[DG93]

Renaud Lavoie is reporting that Johnny Gaudreau will be traded by the start of free agency.

I don’t personally think the Sharks should be trying to contend this year, but if they are, Gaudreau is probably the ideal target. He’s got his warts for sure which makes him risky but he’s also got some of the highest upside of any available player.

Lavoie is generally pretty reliable, right?

 

[Erep]

Lavoie is generally pretty reliable, right?

The amount of "Gaudreau on the trade block" rumors coming out the last couple months makes it seem like they blame him for all their playoff problems, and practically view him as a cap dump, which seems really stupid.

Obviously, they will get something decent for him, but this does feel like the typical DW target of a guy who some team illogically feels like they have to sell no matter what...

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Lavoie is generally pretty reliable, right?

Yes, he’s one of the best in the business.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

When you say last year, you mean the year before last where he had 42 points in 78 games. He only played 24 games last year and had 8 points.

My concern with Ryan boils down to his health more than anything else. Giving him 3M is fine if I trusted him to be good for 70+ games, which I do not. I would feel uncomfortable giving him anything over 2M.

He wasn’t hurt this year, he was in rehab for alcohol. We don’t really have the cap space to sign sure fire forwards in the quantity that we need. DW will have to take at least one gamble on a player like Ryan or Galchenyuk.

 

[Barrie22]

When you say last year, you mean the year before last where he had 42 points in 78 games. He only played 24 games last year and had 8 points.

My concern with Ryan boils down to his health more than anything else. Giving him 3M is fine if I trusted him to be good for 70+ games, which I do not. I would feel uncomfortable giving him anything over 2M.

The only way he doesn't hit 70 games is if his alcohol problems come back.

But by all accounts it sounds like he has taken those issues seriously and was the one who seeked the help instead of being forced into it like some players are.

 

[Erep]

The only way he doesn't hit 70 games is if his alcohol problems come back.

To be fair, any player can get a season ending injury any game, but I agree with what you are saying.

The only way he is more at risk of playing less than 70 games than the average player is though alcohol related relapse.

 

[Karl Prime]

The only way he doesn't hit 70 games is if his alcohol problems come back.

But by all accounts it sounds like he has taken those issues seriously and was the one who seeked the help instead of being forced into it like some players are.

Ryan has had more than a few minor injury problems the last 5 years. The lowest GP from 13-14 to 18-19 was 62 but he played through those minor injuries a lot which led to bad performance. However it's possible he could put together a solid 35-40 point season for some team this season if given the right environment.

 

[weastern bias]

Renaud Lavoie is reporting that Johnny Gaudreau will be traded by the start of free agency.

I don’t personally think the Sharks should be trying to contend this year, but if they are, Gaudreau is probably the ideal target. He’s got his warts for sure which makes him risky but he’s also got some of the highest upside of any available player.

Calgary is looking for a 1st line center to push Monahan down the depth chart, right?

Gregor for Gaudreau straight up, Calgary might have to add a pick since Gregor plays the more important position

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

The only way he doesn't hit 70 games is if his alcohol problems come back.

But by all accounts it sounds like he has taken those issues seriously and was the one who seeked the help instead of being forced into it like some players are.

True. I did forget about his alcohol issues. But, I am still concerned about his injury issues. He played 62,62, 78 games in the 3 seasons before that.

I definitely would not mind taking a chance on him though. Heck, take chances on 2 reclamation projects from Ryan, Wennberg or Galchenyuk. We really have nothing to lose. Its not the best FA market for forwards and Dadanov is the only one who would fit.

 

[Lebanezer]

Calgary is looking for a 1st line center to push Monahan down the depth chart, right?

Gregor for Gaudreau straight up, Calgary might have to add a pick since Gregor plays the more important position

Gaudreau for Couture straight up.

 

[weastern bias]

Gaudreau for Couture straight up.

I would not make that move

Couture elevates his game in the playoffs, Gaudreau's game falls off a cliff

 

[Lebanezer]

I would not make that move

Couture elevates his game in the playoffs, Gaudreau's game falls off a cliff

That’s the main selling point to Calgary. Given Couture’s age, contract length, and expected regression, I’d rather give Gaudreau a chance to play with someone like Hertl.

 

[weastern bias]

That’s the main selling point to Calgary. Given Couture’s age, contract length, and expected regression, I’d rather give Gaudreau a chance to play with someone like Hertl.

Gaudreau would look really good next to Hertl. . . in the regular season

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Gaudreau would look really good next to Hertl. . . in the regular season

You need to win games in the regular season to make the playoffs, which we didn't do this year, and Couture certainly helps this team do that less than Gaudreau would.

 

[Cas]

I'm pretty skeptical of evaluating a player with 464 career regular season games on the basis of 30 postseason games, particularly when his performance in said 30 games appears pretty mixed, rather than uniformly poor.

 

[weastern bias]

You need to win games in the regular season to make the playoffs, which we didn't do this year, and Couture certainly helps this team do that less than Gaudreau would.

And then you need to win playoff games after earning that berth to win a Stanley Cup

Gaudreau isn't young anymore, we've seen a body of work and it's not pretty when the postseason rolls around

His PPG drops from .959 to .615 from the regular season to the playoffs (.633 if you count the qualifier games), while Couture's actually jumps from .764 to .87

His teams have never been past the 2nd round, have only been past the 1st round once and have only won 8 of the 26 playoff games they've played with him (11 of 30 if you count the qualifier games)

And these weren't scrub teams, he played on the division winner with a Norris Trophy winning teammate just last year and Gaudreau went from scoring 99 points in the regular season to getting just one secondary assist while his team was bounced in 5 games

On top of that, it's not clear just how much better Gaudreau is in the regular season than Couture right now

In the 2020 season Gaudreau scored 58 points in 70 games for a pace of .829 or 67 points in an 82 game season

In the 2020 season Couture scored 39 points in 52 games for a pace of .75 or 61 points in an 82 game season (or 48 points had the season finished and Couture played in all 64 possible games accounting for his time missed)

All this while battling injuries and playing on a far inferior team

Give me the player who paced for 6 less points but plays center, plays better defense, and is the far superior playoff performer, that's Logan Couture

Couture is aging and has a questionable contract, but Gaudreau isn't young anymore, he's 27, and he's about to get a nightmare contract of his own in the 2022 offseason

I don't have a problem with the idea of adding Gaudreau to the Sharks, but I do have a problem with it being at the cost of Logan Couture

 

[tiburon12]

My speculation was that DW negotiated a deal like Goodrow, Gambrell and a third for Killorn, at the trade deadline, but Tampa needed Goodrow and Killorn for this run, so the Tampa first is nothing more than collateral until the off season. That makes sense to me, given none of us expected Goodrow and a third would return a late first.

I know it's wrong to judge a trade after the fact, but Goodrow has been more valuable to Tampa's team than many of the deadline players we paid a first for. Guerin? Campbell?

 

[Pavelski2112]

I know it's wrong to judge a trade after the fact, but Goodrow has been more valuable to Tampa's team than many of the deadline players we paid a first for. Guerin? Campbell?

The Sharks were farther away from being a Cup team then than Tampa was this season.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I know it's wrong to judge a trade after the fact, but Goodrow has been more valuable to Tampa's team than many of the deadline players we paid a first for. Guerin? Campbell?

He has scored one goal in 32 games.