Boston Bruins 2020-2021 Roster Discussion IV - STAY ON TOPIC

[bruinmann77]

so are these rumours or legit. trade talk.

 

[Fenian24]

Come on down max and Noah! Join the black and gold.

But what if it costs us "Book It" Zboril and Senyshyn?

 

[Dizzay]

Moore + Kase +Wagner +Vaak + Beacher/Studnicka + 2021 1st
Patrick Kane (2 million retained)
Chara 1 million
Its Friday, one can dream.

Marshy-Bergy-Pasta
Debrusk-Krejci-Kane
Bjork-Coyle-Smith
Ritchie-Kuraly-Frederic

Gryzz-McAvoy
Lauzon-Carlo
Chara-Zboril

 

[Blowfish]

This theory teams need to be tall and heavy to be successful and win cups is a complete farce...History highlights the following win cups - Team identity/passion/coaching, Team chemistry, Team hockey IQ, Team leadership,Team skill, luck, and Team depth. Team character and Nasty helps.

Should fans be worried the bruins are lacking in size next year? The answer is no. In fact the smaller teams have had more success over the last 10 years. A team doesn't need to be Big Bruising to win cups just good at everything I mentioned above.

Bruins have had competitive teams over the last 10 years because they play as a team/will to win not because they are big...The team Don has built will continue to be competitive because of the focus on character and leadership.

The obvious need now is skill/scoring. Get it done Donny.

Example cup winners....

2011 bruins
25th in league avg height Calgary & Caps 1&2
25th in league avg lbs Atlanta & St Louis

2015 Hawks
24th in league avg height Winnipeg & Ottawa 1&2
28th in league avg lbs Ducks & Winnipeg

2016 Penguins
29th in league avg height LA & Blues 1&2
30th in league avg lbs LA & NYI

2017 Penguins
30th in league avg height Winnipeg & LA 1&2
29th in league avg lbs LA & Buffalo

2018 Washington
21st in league avg height Dallas & LA 1&2
10th in league avg lbs Dallas & LA

2019 St Louis
3rd in league avg height Winnipeg & Dallas 1&2
3rd in league avg lbs NYI & Dallas

2020 Tampa
19th in league avg height Dallas & Vancouver 1&2
7th in league avg lbs NYI & Dallas

Link to stats....
Elite Prospects - Team Comparison in NHL

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

This theory teams need to be tall and heavy to be successful and win cups is a complete farce...History highlights the following win cups - Team identity/passion/coaching, Team chemistry, Team hockey IQ, Team leadership,Team skill, luck, and Team depth. Team character and Nasty helps.

Should we really be worried the bruins are lacking in size next year? The answer is no. In fact the smaller teams have had more success over the last 10 years. A team doesn't need to be Big Bruising to win cups just good at everything I mentioned above.

Bruins have had competitive teams over the last 10 years because they play as a team/will to win not because they are big...The team Don has built will continue to be competitive because of the focus on character and leadership.

The obvious need now is skill/scoring. Get it done Donny.

Example cup winners....

2011 bruins
25th in league avg height Calgary & Caps 1&2
25th in league avg lbs Atlanta & St Louis

2015 Hawks
24th in league avg height Winnipeg & Ottawa 1&2
28th in league avg lbs Ducks & Winnipeg

2016 Penguins
29th in league avg height LA & Blues 1&2
30th in league avg lbs LA & NYI

2017 Penguins
30th in league avg height Winnipeg & LA 1&2
29th in league avg lbs LA & Buffalo

2018 Washington
21st in league avg height Dallas & LA 1&2
10th in league avg lbs Dallas & LA

2019 St Louis
3rd in league avg height Winnipeg & Dallas 1&2
3rd in league avg lbs NYI & Dallas

2020 Tampa
19th in league avg height Dallas & Vancouver 1&2
7th in league avg lbs NYI & Dallas

Link to stats....
Elite Prospects - Team Comparison in NHL

I honestly hate this type of comparison. There's zero context really. Height/Weight don't have anything to do with it. Jimmy Hayes (6'5'' - 215 lbs) or Stan Jonathan (5'8'' -- 175 lbs)? I know who I'd take in that fight. I know who I'd fear going into the corner.

All these teams above had what you need to win the Cup. They had the skill from the net to the 1st line center, the physicality, the coaching, and luck. Look at each roster and come back with this take. I don't think it's happening.

 

[Blowfish]

I honestly hate this type of comparison. There's zero context really. Height/Weight don't have anything to do with it. Jimmy Hayes (6'5'' - 215 lbs) or Stan Jonathan (5'8'' -- 175 lbs)? I know who I'd take in that fight. I know who I'd fear going into the corner.

All these teams above had what you need to win the Cup. They had the skill from the net to the 1st line center, the physicality, the coaching, and luck. Look at each roster and come back with this take. I don't think it's happening.

Did you read my opening remarks?

 

[sarge88]

This theory teams need to be tall and heavy to be successful and win cups is a complete farce...History highlights the following win cups - Team identity/passion/coaching, Team chemistry, Team hockey IQ, Team leadership,Team skill, luck, and Team depth. Team character and Nasty helps.

Should we really be worried the bruins are lacking in size next year? The answer is no. In fact the smaller teams have had more success over the last 10 years. A team doesn't need to be Big Bruising to win cups just good at everything I mentioned above.

Bruins have had competitive teams over the last 10 years because they play as a team/will to win not because they are big...The team Don has built will continue to be competitive because of the focus on character and leadership.

The obvious need now is skill/scoring. Get it done Donny.

Example cup winners....

2011 bruins
25th in league avg height Calgary & Caps 1&2
25th in league avg lbs Atlanta & St Louis

2015 Hawks
24th in league avg height Winnipeg & Ottawa 1&2
28th in league avg lbs Ducks & Winnipeg

2016 Penguins
29th in league avg height LA & Blues 1&2
30th in league avg lbs LA & NYI

2017 Penguins
30th in league avg height Winnipeg & LA 1&2
29th in league avg lbs LA & Buffalo

2018 Washington
21st in league avg height Dallas & LA 1&2
10th in league avg lbs Dallas & LA

2019 St Louis
3rd in league avg height Winnipeg & Dallas 1&2
3rd in league avg lbs NYI & Dallas

2020 Tampa
19th in league avg height Dallas & Vancouver 1&2
7th in league avg lbs NYI & Dallas

Link to stats....
Elite Prospects - Team Comparison in NHL

Without going into the specifics of each team above --- height and weight aren't the full story with a lot of those teams.

The 2011 Bruins for example -- doesn't matter where they ranked in Ht/Wt. ---- they had arguably 4 of the 10 toughest guys in the league at the time in Chara, Looch, Thornton and McQuaid. Plus 3 others that were probably among the toughest "regular players" in Horton, Boychuk and Ference.

St. Louis -- regardless of their size played a dirty/physical style.

The Pens, while not overly big or tough also had the luxury of having two of the top 10 forwards in the league at the time.

So, yes. Height and Weight aren't the only story --- but physicality and toughness will always play a role, IMO.

 

[Blowfish]

Without going into the specifics of each team above --- height and weight aren't the full story with a lot of those teams.

The 2011 Bruins for example -- doesn't matter where they ranked in Ht/Wt. ---- they had arguably 4 of the 10 toughest guys in the league at the time in Chara, Looch, Thornton and McQuaid. Plus 3 others that were probably among the toughest "regular players" in Horton, Boychuk and Ference.

St. Louis -- regardless of their size played a dirty/physical style.

The Pens, while not overly big or tough also had the luxury of having two of the top 10 forwards in the league at the time.

So, yes. Height and Weight aren't the only story --- but physicality and toughness will always play a role, IMO.

So many factors are built into team success however the prerogative of size IMO is irrelevant. I stated some of the key success characteristics in my original post. For me it boils down to will, passion, and team. Those are the teams that are successful. Physicality and toughness will always play a role no doubt.

 

[analyser]

So many factors are built into team success however the prerogative of size IMO is irrelevant. I stated some of the key success characteristics in my original post. For me it boils down to will, passion, and team. Those are the teams that are successful. Physicality and toughness will always play a role no doubt.

Do not tell the Phialdelphia Flyers of 74 and 75 that physicality and toughness will not win you a Cup. Players from opposing teams spent more time looking over their shoulder that concentrating on the game itself. I do know that the game has changed completely since then.

 

[Blowfish]

Do not tell the Phialdelphia Flyers of 74 and 75 that physicality and toughness will not win you a Cup. Players from opposing teams spent more time looking over their shoulder that concentrating on the game itself. I do know that the game has changed completely since then.

I don't disagree with you there and yes the times have changed significantly for all sports when it comes to physical play. Not just the NHL. Physicality still factors into team success more in board play/puck pursuit/will/sacrifice.

 

[DKH]

This theory teams need to be tall and heavy to be successful and win cups is a complete farce...History highlights the following win cups - Team identity/passion/coaching, Team chemistry, Team hockey IQ, Team leadership,Team skill, luck, and Team depth. Team character and Nasty helps.

Should we really be worried the bruins are lacking in size next year? The answer is no. In fact the smaller teams have had more success over the last 10 years. A team doesn't need to be Big Bruising to win cups just good at everything I mentioned above.

Bruins have had competitive teams over the last 10 years because they play as a team/will to win not because they are big...The team Don has built will continue to be competitive because of the focus on character and leadership.

The obvious need now is skill/scoring. Get it done Donny.

Example cup winners....

2011 bruins
25th in league avg height Calgary & Caps 1&2
25th in league avg lbs Atlanta & St Louis

2015 Hawks
24th in league avg height Winnipeg & Ottawa 1&2
28th in league avg lbs Ducks & Winnipeg

2016 Penguins
29th in league avg height LA & Blues 1&2
30th in league avg lbs LA & NYI

2017 Penguins
30th in league avg height Winnipeg & LA 1&2
29th in league avg lbs LA & Buffalo

2018 Washington
21st in league avg height Dallas & LA 1&2
10th in league avg lbs Dallas & LA

2019 St Louis
3rd in league avg height Winnipeg & Dallas 1&2
3rd in league avg lbs NYI & Dallas

2020 Tampa
19th in league avg height Dallas & Vancouver 1&2
7th in league avg lbs NYI & Dallas

Link to stats....
Elite Prospects - Team Comparison in NHL

I’m not sure this is directed at me but if you been reading me it shouldn’t be

my team is balance

skill & toughness

for every Trottier, Bossy, Potvin, Bourne, Goring, Jonsson you have Nystrom, Tonelli, Gillies, Howatt, Sutters etc

I’ll take Marchand, Pastrnak, Bergeron, Krug, Krejci, DeBrusk, And McAvoy

but I want Chara, Carlo, Lauzon, Wagner, Frederic, Coyle, Smith, Kuraly, Ritchie

I want my team to be able to dance and fight

 

[Blowfish]

I’m not sure this is directed at me but if you been reading me it shouldn’t be

my team is balance

skill & toughness

for every Trottier, Bossy, Potvin, Bourne, Goring, Jonsson you have Nystrom, Tonelli, Gillies, Howatt, Sutters etc

I’ll take Marchand, Pastrnak, Bergeron, Krug, Krejci, DeBrusk, And McAvoy

but I want Chara, Carlo, Lauzon, Wagner, Frederic, Coyle, Smith, Kuraly, Ritchie

I want my team to be able to dance and fight

Not you at all DKH...Love the team balance you've been presenting. Totally onboard.

Only a few here have this thing about bruins being smallish etc...

 

[ON3M4N]

I honestly hate this type of comparison. There's zero context really. Height/Weight don't have anything to do with it. Jimmy Hayes (6'5'' - 215 lbs) or Stan Jonathan (5'8'' -- 175 lbs)? I know who I'd take in that fight. I know who I'd fear going into the corner.

All these teams above had what you need to win the Cup. They had the skill from the net to the 1st line center, the physicality, the coaching, and luck. Look at each roster and come back with this take. I don't think it's happening.

This right here, all of this.

Whats the old saying?

Its not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog.

 

[PlayMakers]

This theory teams need to be tall and heavy to be successful and win cups is a complete farce...History highlights the following win cups - Team identity/passion/coaching, Team chemistry, Team hockey IQ, Team leadership,Team skill, luck, and Team depth. Team character and Nasty helps.

Should we really be worried the bruins are lacking in size next year? The answer is no. In fact the smaller teams have had more success over the last 10 years. A team doesn't need to be Big Bruising to win cups just good at everything I mentioned above.

Bruins have had competitive teams over the last 10 years because they play as a team/will to win not because they are big...The team Don has built will continue to be competitive because of the focus on character and leadership.

The obvious need now is skill/scoring. Get it done Donny.

Example cup winners....

2011 bruins
25th in league avg height Calgary & Caps 1&2
25th in league avg lbs Atlanta & St Louis

2015 Hawks
24th in league avg height Winnipeg & Ottawa 1&2
28th in league avg lbs Ducks & Winnipeg

2016 Penguins
29th in league avg height LA & Blues 1&2
30th in league avg lbs LA & NYI

2017 Penguins
30th in league avg height Winnipeg & LA 1&2
29th in league avg lbs LA & Buffalo

2018 Washington
21st in league avg height Dallas & LA 1&2
10th in league avg lbs Dallas & LA

2019 St Louis
3rd in league avg height Winnipeg & Dallas 1&2
3rd in league avg lbs NYI & Dallas

2020 Tampa
19th in league avg height Dallas & Vancouver 1&2
7th in league avg lbs NYI & Dallas

Link to stats....
Elite Prospects - Team Comparison in NHL

I don't think people are pining for tall guys, as much as they're pining for physically strong, determined forwards who can get inside on big defenseman to set screens, tip pucks and bang home rebounds.

The Bruins have had nobody in their top9, outside of Coyle, who can do this. They rely on flash and dash to win and sometimes that's good enough, but when you face a red hot goalie the pretty passes and 20 foot shots aren't enough. You have to take away his eyes, you have to tip pucks right as he's about to grab them, you have to bang in rebounds and bump him.

All of those Cup winners had those guys in their top9. Lucic, Horton, Kelly, Byfuglien (as a RW), Bickell, Shaw, Bonino, Hornqvist, Kunitz, Wilson, Oshie, Smith-Pelley, Beagle, Killorn, Cirelli, Palat, Coleman, Goodrow, Maroon, O'Reilly, Schenn, Sundqvist,

The Bruins have had a similar flaw in their defensive makeup. With three smaller guys in Krug, Gryz and Clifton trying to move out big bodies so that Rask can see pucks.

Tampa's series clinching goal is Torey Krug pushing hopelessly against Pat Maroon who is standing with his backside right in Tuukka's face as Hedman wrists a shot from the blue line past him. Maroon doesn't get a point on the play, but the wrister is a harmless shot if Rask can see the puck. First goal in G7 is O'Reilly tipping a puck past Rask. The Bruins had just thrown the kitchen sink at Binnington who was standing on his head, and all it took for STL to take control of the game is a harmless point shot coupled with a not so harmless tip in the slot.

You can't win without skill, but IMO skill alone isn't enough. You have to be built the right away. To me, that means having a blend of skill guys (which we have) and guys who thrive in the trenches (which we do not have).

 

[sarge88]

Not you at all DKH...Love the team balance you've been presenting. Totally onboard.

Only a few here have this thing about bruins being smallish etc...

I will say that while I don’t think size is the most important thing, I think size on the back end is much more important than up front.

I don’t think a team can win a cup if their defense were made up of 6 guys no bigger than Grzelcyk, no matter how big their forwards are.

I do think a team can win a cup if the entire forward group were Bergeron sized, if the defense was filled with guys 6’0 /200 or bigger.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I’m not sure this is directed at me but if you been reading me it shouldn’t be
my team is balance skill & toughness
for every Trottier, Bossy, Potvin, Bourne, Goring, Jonsson you have Nystrom, Tonelli, Gillies, Howatt, Sutters etc
I’ll take Marchand, Pastrnak, Bergeron, Krug, Krejci, DeBrusk, And McAvoy
but I want Chara, Carlo, Lauzon, Wagner, Frederic, Coyle, Smith, Kuraly, Ritchie

I want my team to be able to dance and fight

Fighting is not relevant to winning. More so now than ever before.

And the Bruins were 3rd in the NHL last season in fights with 20 (that's all?). Only the Ducks and Rangers had more. Nine teams did not have double figures in fights.

Sad but true.

 

[DKH]

Fighting is not relevant to winning. More so now than ever before.

And the Bruins were 3rd in the NHL last season in fights with 20 (that's all?). Only the Ducks and Rangers had more. Nine teams did not have double figures in fights.

Sad but true.

I’m not looking to recreate the 1975 Charlestown Chiefs.

I don’t even want the Hathaway types on my team

I’ll take a couple or three of Trent Frederic/Marcus Foligno/Sam Bennett types in my bottom 6

When you find and intelligent beautiful women why not hope she’s a heck of a cook as well

 

[JOKER 192]

So many factors are built into team success however the prerogative of size IMO is irrelevant. I stated some of the key success characteristics in my original post. For me it boils down to will, passion, and team. Those are the teams that are successful. Physicality and toughness will always play a role no doubt.

You impose will passion and team when you can impose physicality.

 

[bruinmann77]

Bruins need to find a nice blend which they are currently lacking

 

[Tbaybruin]

So we trade for Hanafin. Now who do we protect in the expansion draft?

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

So we trade for Hanafin. Now who do we protect in the expansion draft?

Mcavoy, Hanifin, and Carlo.

 

[HustleB]

Mcavoy, Hanifin, and Carlo.

Plus Pasta, Marchand, Bergeron, Coyle and Grezclyk.

or swap Grezclyk for Debrusk and two from Kase, Smith, Bjork and Ritchie.

 

[bruinmann77]

lets get through the season before we worry about whom to protect.

 

[Tbaybruin]

Mcavoy, Hanifin, and Carlo.

So we better not give up a lot in the deal to get Hanifin.

 

[Tbaybruin]

lets get through the season before we worry about whom to protect.

Well if we are going to make deals we should be thinking about the future.