Boston Bruins 2020-2021 Roster Discussion IV - STAY ON TOPIC

[chizzler]

When you play in the Trade Deadline, a first is almost a given. The Bruins have been trading some of the future picks recently for present day help at the end of the e season. They will be feeling it in a year. Not the upcoming one. They won’t be sellers yet. The only way Sweeney can compensate for these missing picks is go hard after the college free agents, which he has had success at. I doubt he knows which way the team is going. Meaning, if the young D works out or not. The problem is the forwards going forward for now.

 

[ON3M4N]

That does completely change the calculation though. I mean if we take back salary, part of that first round pick is to cover the cost of a player the other team couldn't afford to hold. That part of the cost is significant, because we are taking on they're dead weight.

So Krejci, could go for a first if we take on some other cost, but I think the basic premise stands that Krejci himself will not likely fetch the first.

I could see the argument on Rask. Especially if a real contender has LTIR room and room for improvement in goal. Simplest possibility would be if an elite and expensive goalie like Vasilevskiy or Bobrovsky were injured. If that team came looking, Rask for a 1 could work at that point.

Don't forget that contracts a pro-rated. From what I've read (and I'm still making learning) its a players hit / # of days in the season for their daily hit. So for easy math let say:

Krejci - $7.25 mil hit
Days in the season - 200
Daily hit = $36,250

Let say he's traded 100 days into the season leaving 100 days left. That would put his pro-rated hit around $3.6 million for the rest of the season. Krejci at $3.6 million would be worth a 1st.

Maybe @lost peanut can confirm if I'm understanding this right.

 

[analyser]

I think many people have brought up some good points, unfortunately the Bruins are missing a legit 2nd line rw and have been for an extended period of time.

In addition, they do not really have much in reserve should a star or two go down due to injury. They have Bjork who does not impress me, Lauko, Senynshyn, Kulman and Nick Ritchie who I think is a very marginal NHL player at best. I think Kase will be another flop, but I hope to be proven wrong.

The best they have as far as I see it is two unproven players in Studnicka and Frederick. I think Studnicka could end up like a Charlie Coyle type player which would be great, Frederick I see as an unknown commodity who could turn out to be a valuable asset with his size and a bit of a scoring touch.

I do believe that some 4th. line players and Moore are being overpaid.

The defense seems to have quite a few decent prospects.

It would be great if they could trade Krecji at TD for a late 1st. rounder and a good prospect. I do not see it but stranger things have happened. Rask I think needs to be resigned in order to give time for Vladar and Swayman to develop.

 

[DominicT]

Don't forget that contracts a pro-rated. From what I've read (and I'm still making learning) its a players hit / # of days in the season for their daily hit. So for easy math let say:

Krejci - $7.25 mil hit
Days in the season - 200
Daily hit = $36,250

Let say he's traded 100 days into the season leaving 100 days left. That would put his pro-rated hit around $3.6 million for the rest of the season. Krejci at $3.6 million would be worth a 1st.

Maybe @lost peanut can confirm if I'm understanding this right.

In a normal season this is correct. 186 days in a season.

But as you know, these are not normal times. I don't think the league and the PA have any idea on how it is going to work this season yet, leaving a lot of questions to be answered about what in season trades are going to look like cap wise.

Whether they calculate the cap as 186 days or prorate it to say 120 days the math should make no difference as everything will be prorated (including the cap), as long as there is no change to the way cap space is banked.

The biggest question to be answered in regards to cap calculations is how to deal with signing bonuses already paid. Boston has $5.2 million in signing bonuses paid to Bergeron, Marchand, Pastrnak, McAvoy, Halak, Clifton, Miller and yes, David Backes.

Compare that to Toronto who has dished out $53 million in signing bonuses already this season.

At 120 days, the cap is just under $52.6 million.

I'm not sure how you prorate money that has already been paid out.

 

[Ratty]

When you play in the Trade Deadline, a first is almost a given. The Bruins have been trading some of the future picks recently for present day help at the end of the e season. They will be feeling it in a year. Not the upcoming one. They won’t be sellers yet. The only way Sweeney can compensate for these missing picks is go hard after the college free agents, which he has had success at. I doubt he knows which way the team is going. Meaning, if the young D works out or not. The problem is the forwards going forward for now.

Our forwards have to be going forward for us to compete. Back checking is not enough.

 

[ON3M4N]

In a normal season this is correct. 186 days in a season.

But as you know, these are not normal times. I don't think the league and the PA have any idea on how it is going to work this season yet, leaving a lot of questions to be answered about what in season trades are going to look like cap wise.

Whether they calculate the cap as 186 days or prorate it to say 120 days the math should make no difference as everything will be prorated (including the cap), as long as there is no change to the way cap space is banked.

The biggest question to be answered in regards to cap calculations is how to deal with signing bonuses already paid. Boston has $5.2 million in signing bonuses paid to Bergeron, Marchand, Pastrnak, McAvoy, Halak, Clifton, Miller and yes, David Backes.

Compare that to Toronto who has dished out $53 million in signing bonuses already this season.

At 120 days, the cap is just under $52.6 million.

I'm not sure how you prorate money that has already been paid out.

Thanks Dom!

It'll be interesting to see how they decide to do things for sure.

 

[bbfan419]

That does completely change the calculation though. I mean if we take back salary, part of that first round pick is to cover the cost of a player the other team couldn't afford to hold. That part of the cost is significant, because we are taking on they're dead weight.

So Krejci, could go for a first if we take on some other cost, but I think the basic premise stands that Krejci himself will not likely fetch the first.

I could see the argument on Rask. Especially if a real contender has LTIR room and room for improvement in goal. Simplest possibility would be if an elite and expensive goalie like Vasilevskiy or Bobrovsky were injured. If that team came looking, Rask for a 1 could work at that point.

I don't know , if you look at Pageau, Hayes etc they all got a 1st +, to me Krejci is better than them and as most lilely the top C available, there could be multiple teams wanting him and since he is a UFA at the TDL a good part of his salary for the year is already paid, so the acquiring team would not be on the hook for much of it.

 

[analyser]

I don't know , if you look at Pageau, Hayes etc they all got a 1st +, to me Krejci is better than them and as most lilely the top C available, there could be multiple teams wanting him and since he is a UFA at the TDL a good part of his salary for the year is already paid, so the acquiring team would not be on the hook for much of it.

Pageau and Hayes are both 28 and were good candidates for extensions, whereas Krecji is 34 and would you want to extend him for a long period of time.

Giving up a late first rounder and as some people are hoping for a good prospect as well does not make good sense in a Krecji deal.

I think the 1st rounder and top prospects may be coveted by teams due to the flat cap. These individuals may have to join the big team earlier than expected. A lot of manipulation of resources may happen within teams to try and hold on to the majority of their stars if this pandemic sticks around. Who knows what the cap will be next year. These are uncertain times.

Just a couple of factors that I think could come into play.

 

[wintersej]

Why are people talking about this team being a seller at the deadline?

Even if full season of Kase, Ritchie, Smith leaves them short of making up Krug's production... totally possible! ... are people suggesting they are going to go from EASY Presidents trophy winners to being clearly out of the playoff picture at the TDL?

If Krug was that good the Bruins should have offered him 12 million a year.

 

[Fenian24]

Why are people talking about this team being a seller at the deadline?

Even if full season of Kase, Ritchie, Smith leaves them short of making up Krug's production... totally possible! ... are people suggesting they are going to go from EASY Presidents trophy winners to being clearly out of the playoff picture at the TDL?

If Krug was that good the Bruins should have offered him 12 million a year.

Depending on how the divisions and playoffs are set up this team could struggle to make the playoffs. The bottom could fall out on this team very easily.

The defense right now is terrible, questions mark's at 2rw and 3rd lw. I do not think the scoring has improved, if anything the power play they have relied on won't be as good without Krug.

 

[BruinDust]

Depending on how the divisions and playoffs are set up this team could struggle to make the playoffs. The bottom could fall out on this team very easily.

The defense right now is terrible, questions mark's at 2rw and 3rd lw. I do not think the scoring has improved, if anything the power play they have relied on won't be as good without Krug.

I think they are fine at 2RW. Whether it's Smith/Kase with Coyle and Smith/Kase with Krejci either way your getting capable secondary scoring. From what I see this team is set at 4 positions really, C, RW, RD and G.

LW is a question for me mostly because I don't want Debrusk with Krejci anymore as it's a terrible fit chemistry wise IMO and would much prefer Debrusk flaking Coyle. So that would leave the Krejci LW spot open for Bjork, Ritchie or someone else.

 

[Ratty]

I think they are fine at 2RW. Whether it's Smith/Kase with Coyle and Smith/Kase with Krejci either way your getting capable secondary scoring. From what I see this team is set at 4 positions really, C, RW, RD and G.

LW is a question for me mostly because I don't want Debrusk with Krejci anymore as it's a terrible fit chemistry wise IMO and would much prefer Debrusk flaking Coyle. So that would leave the Krejci LW spot open for Bjork, Ritchie or someone else.

An average of 20G and 40 Pts per season playing with DK is not that shabby. With his ELC behind him I look for more from Jake. I keep them together unless, of course, a Hoffman shows up.

 

[HustleB]

Why are people talking about this team being a seller at the deadline?

Even if full season of Kase, Ritchie, Smith leaves them short of making up Krug's production... totally possible! ... are people suggesting they are going to go from EASY Presidents trophy winners to being clearly out of the playoff picture at the TDL?

If Krug was that good the Bruins should have offered him 12 million a year.

Not at all. Discussion of value only. I would love to see Krejci retire here. I think he has the versatility to play wing.

 

[bbfan419]

Pageau and Hayes are both 28 and were good candidates for extensions, whereas Krecji is 34 and would you want to extend him for a long period of time.

Giving up a late first rounder and as some people are hoping for a good prospect as well does not make good sense in a Krecji deal.

I think the 1st rounder and top prospects may be coveted by teams due to the flat cap. These individuals may have to join the big team earlier than expected. A lot of manipulation of resources may happen within teams to try and hold on to the majority of their stars if this pandemic sticks around. Who knows what the cap will be next year. These are uncertain times.

Just a couple of factors that I think could come into play.

could be, but look at it this way, if it were the Bruins and their pick is in that 25-31 range and the player that could really help you, say for us a top 6 winger or top 4 D for a solid run at the cup, I think most teams make the deal, you only get so many shots at the cup.

 

[Blowfish]

Depending on how the divisions and playoffs are set up this team could struggle to make the playoffs. The bottom could fall out on this team very easily.

The defense right now is terrible, questions mark's at 2rw and 3rd lw. I do not think the scoring has improved, if anything the power play they have relied on won't be as good without Krug.

This is nonsense. The last 3-5 seasons top 5 pp pk GA .... The D is the least of the bruins concerns.

 

[PlayMakers]

Would you do...

Moore, Vaak and a 1st
for
Ekman-Larsson with $2.5m retained.

I look at it as Vaak for Ekman-Larsson, and a 1st for them to take on Moore. Plus, they could use Moore as insurance because 5 of their 6 remaining defensemen are UFA's at the end of the year. We add $3m which puts us at the cap, they shed $3m which gets them just under the cap.

Marchand - Bergy - Pasta
DeBrusk - Krejci - Kase
Bjork - Coyle - Smith
Ritchie - Kuraly - Wagner

Grzelcyk - McAvoy
OEL - Carlo
Lauzon - Clifton

Does OEL make the B's a contender? Enough to lose one of DeBrusk/Gryz to Seattle in the expansion draft?

 

[Blowfish]

Would you do...

Moore, Vaak and a 1st
for
Ekman-Larsson with $2.5m retained.

I look at it as Vaak for Ekman-Larsson, and a 1st for them to take on Moore. Plus, they could use Moore as insurance because 5 of their 6 remaining defensemen are UFA's at the end of the year. We add $3m which puts us at the cap, they shed $3m which gets them just under the cap.

Marchand - Bergy - Pasta
DeBrusk - Krejci - Kase
Bjork - Coyle - Smith
Ritchie - Kuraly - Wagner

Grzelcyk - McAvoy
OEL - Carlo
Lauzon - Clifton

Does OEL make the B's a contender? Enough to lose one of DeBrusk/Gryz to Seattle in the expansion draft?

No thank you...

 

[sarge88]

Would you do...

Moore, Vaak and a 1st
for
Ekman-Larsson with $2.5m retained.

I look at it as Vaak for Ekman-Larsson, and a 1st for them to take on Moore. Plus, they could use Moore as insurance because 5 of their 6 remaining defensemen are UFA's at the end of the year. We add $3m which puts us at the cap, they shed $3m which gets them just under the cap.

Marchand - Bergy - Pasta
DeBrusk - Krejci - Kase
Bjork - Coyle - Smith
Ritchie - Kuraly - Wagner

Grzelcyk - McAvoy
OEL - Carlo
Lauzon - Clifton

Does OEL make the B's a contender? Enough to lose one of DeBrusk/Gryz to Seattle in the expansion draft?

In a nanosecond.

2 Guys who won’t play a major role and a pick in the mid to high 20’s for a legit #2 defenseman under 30 is a no brainer for me.

 

[Ratty]

Would you do...

Moore, Vaak and a 1st
for
Ekman-Larsson with $2.5m retained.

I look at it as Vaak for Ekman-Larsson, and a 1st for them to take on Moore. Plus, they could use Moore as insurance because 5 of their 6 remaining defensemen are UFA's at the end of the year. We add $3m which puts us at the cap, they shed $3m which gets them just under the cap.

Marchand - Bergy - Pasta
DeBrusk - Krejci - Kase
Bjork - Coyle - Smith
Ritchie - Kuraly - Wagner

Grzelcyk - McAvoy
OEL - Carlo
Lauzon - Clifton

Does OEL make the B's a contender? Enough to lose one of DeBrusk/Gryz to Seattle in the expansion draft?

I'd do that. Hate to keep giving up first rounders, but if it brings us to the SCF, I do it. That's 2021 Stanley Cup. After that is the expansion draft. And Sweeney protects Charlie Mc, OEL and Carlo. Got to lose someone. But with a defense with that talent DS can afford to surrender the Townie.

 

[analyser]

could be, but look at it this way, if it were the Bruins and their pick is in that 25-31 range and the player that could really help you, say for us a top 6 winger or top 4 D for a solid run at the cup, I think most teams make the deal, you only get so many shots at the cup.

How has that worked in the Bruins case as they have had a few chances since 2013 and no prize. Sweeney has made some moves but obviously not for the the required piece(s). Bruins may have a bit of an advantage with trading Krecji though as he is a proven top playoff performer.

 

[HustleB]

Would you do...

Moore, Vaak and a 1st
for
Ekman-Larsson with $2.5m retained.

I look at it as Vaak for Ekman-Larsson, and a 1st for them to take on Moore. Plus, they could use Moore as insurance because 5 of their 6 remaining defensemen are UFA's at the end of the year. We add $3m which puts us at the cap, they shed $3m which gets them just under the cap.

Marchand - Bergy - Pasta
DeBrusk - Krejci - Kase
Bjork - Coyle - Smith
Ritchie - Kuraly - Wagner

Grzelcyk - McAvoy
OEL - Carlo
Lauzon - Clifton

Does OEL make the B's a contender? Enough to lose one of DeBrusk/Gryz to Seattle in the expansion draft?

I prefer not too. However if you could shed about 2 mil more without taking a beating, I would be more tempted, this would allow space for modification at the deadline.

 

[Fenian24]

• [QUOTE="Blowfish, post: 174647547, member: 23576" .... The D is the least of the bruins concerns.[/QUOTE]

That is just insanity or you have channelled Derek Sanderson and Dale Arnold.

 

[Fenian24]

Would you do...

Moore, Vaak and a 1st
for
Ekman-Larsson with $2.5m retained.

I look at it as Vaak for Ekman-Larsson, and a 1st for them to take on Moore. Plus, they could use Moore as insurance because 5 of their 6 remaining defensemen are UFA's at the end of the year. We add $3m which puts us at the cap, they shed $3m which gets them just under the cap.

Marchand - Bergy - Pasta
DeBrusk - Krejci - Kase
Bjork - Coyle - Smith
Ritchie - Kuraly - Wagner

Grzelcyk - McAvoy
OEL - Carlo
Lauzon - Clifton

Does OEL make the B's a contender? Enough to lose one of DeBrusk/Gryz to Seattle in the expansion draft?

This shouldn't even be a question. An overpaid 9th D on a terrible contract, a borderline prospect who regressed in Vaak and a first in a draft year where half the leagues aren't playing for a legit top 4 D.

Armstrong would get fired if he made the deal

 

[bbfan419]

How has that worked in the Bruins case as they have had a few chances since 2013 and no prize. Sweeney has made some moves but obviously not for the the required piece(s). Bruins may have a bit of an advantage with trading Krecji though as he is a proven top playoff performer.

I know, but they did reach the finals twice and also won a cup in 2011 with deadline deals. There will always be teams willing to gamble for that piece that could put them over the top. Nothing is guaranteed for any team of course, but as a GM if your team is a player or two away from a legit chance, I think you have to go for it, especially for a late first rounder.

 

[BruinDust]

An average of 20G and 40 Pts per season playing with DK is not that shabby. With his ELC behind him I look for more from Jake. I keep them together unless, of course, a Hoffman shows up.

Jake's production isn't dependent on Krejci. A while ago I looked at all of the goals Debrusk scored last year and Krejci's directly set-up just two of them. There's no chemistry there, Jake is and has been a bit of a one-man show offensively, his style of play isn't dependent on his line-mates. That's not necessarily a good thing either.