2020-2021 Roster Discussion II-STAY ON TOPIC

[Gordoff]

I won't harangue you with point-by-point refutations, but takeaways might be the one collated-from-the-stands NHL metric that is even more dire than hits.

Regardless, if you go after him, it absolutely has to be after Debrusk's extension is signed, as Debrusk's agent will sprain his index finger pointing at that contract as a comp should the Bruins acquire Saad. And nobody wants to pay Jake Debrusk $6M. I don't understand people wanting to pay Brandon Saad $7M next season either, but it appears to be a more popular stance than mine.

Yeah well the agent and Jake can want what they want but Saad has won how many Cups? He's done "it" consistently for around 9 years now. If I'm Sweeney I tell* him to come back when his client has a track record in the neighborhood of Saad's.*

*After which Donny will be hiding under his desk.

 

[ON3M4N]

Yeah well the agent and Jake can want what they want but Saad has won how many Cups? He's done "it" consistently for around 9 years now. If I'm Sweeney I tell* him to come back when his client has a track record in the neighborhood of Saad's.*

*After which Donny will be hiding under his desk.

He's won two, the first of which he wasn't much of a factor and didn't provide much offensively 1G/5A on 23GP.

Saad isn't a terrible comp, but at 23yr old he was slightly better

Ages 21 to 23
BS - 238 GP / 73G / 79A
JD - 203 GP / 62G / 59A

Per game
BS - 0.31 GPG / 0.33 AGP
JD - 0.31 GPG / 0.29 AGP

Jake's was a +30 TkGv while Saad was a +45 TkGv. DeBrusk had more hits while Saad had more blocks.

 

[Coach Parker]

I like Hall as the playmaking LW paired for the next 5+ years with Pastrnak. For some reason I see Coyle really doing a great job getting him the puck.

Hall - Coyle - Pastrnak
Marchand - Bergeron - XXX
DeBrusk - Krejci - Kase

Three solid pairings in the top 9. Bjork, Studnicka, Ritchie, Senyshyn and company all fight for a chance to be the 2nd line RW. Whoever can have chemistry with those two the best, wins the spot.

Back to 2011 where Marchand and Bergeron (and Recchi/Seguin(Rookie) were given 2nd line duties and scored when it mattered. Force other teams to have to play against that 1st line.

A Hart trophy playmaker paired with a Rocket Richard winner.

If you can neutralize them, then you now have to deal with Marchand-Bergeron.

If you neutralize them, you now have to deal with playoff Krejci on his last year of his contract and a year of working with Kase while DeBrusk continues to develop his game.

DEPTH

 

[sarge88]

I like Hall as the playmaking LW paired for the next 5+ years with Pastrnak. For some reason I see Coyle really doing a great job getting him the puck.

Hall - Coyle - Pastrnak
Marchand - Bergeron - XXX
DeBrusk - Krejci - Kase

Three solid pairings in the top 9. Bjork, Studnicka, Ritchie, Senyshyn and company all fight for a chance to be the 2nd line RW. Whoever can have chemistry with those two the best, wins the spot.

Back to 2011 where Marchand and Bergeron (and Recchi/Seguin(Rookie) were given 2nd line duties and scored when it mattered. Force other teams to have to play against that 1st line.

A Hart trophy playmaker paired with a Rocket Richard winner.

If you can neutralize them, then you now have to deal with Marchand-Bergeron.

If you neutralize them, you now have to deal with playoff Krejci on his last year of his contract and a year of working with Kase while DeBrusk continues to develop his game.

DEPTH

I like the plan but the only thing I’d change is the XXX on Bergerons line.

I have no faith that anyone currently on the team will be good enough to make them a contender.

I’d rather they Trade for a legit second liner, IMO.

 

[JCRO]

With all the MAF rumours I’m betting Lehner stays in Vegas



That’s a team with secondary scoring issue

Let’s get realistic as to what they’re going to be able to add this offseason here. Even them scoring Toffoli is probably a reach as others are going to try and sign him as well

 

[Blowfish]

Thinking we need Hall....

Using Providence players only....

--Perfect Line--
Debrusk-Coyle-Bjork
Kase-Frederick-Studnicka
Lauko/Hughes/Gaunce-Kuraly-Senyshyn/Steen


Gryz Mac
Zboril Clifton
Zech/Vaak. Lauzon


* Krejci (proven playoff performer) time is now & Carlo & Moore - traded for big something
* Wagner / Lindholm start in Providence
* Love Nords but need to fit in some Pbruins
* Kuhlman & Ritchie traded
* Team needs to move away from Chara.

 

[goalieman40]

I get that Carlo could be one of our best trade chips but also don’t know about trading him. That’s a hefty gamble to go full in on Zboril, Vaak, Lauzon.

 

[Mick Riddleton]

Why would Lehner leave Vegas, he is a rock star there. They gave a good team, I just do not see it.

Never want to see Krech play with Jake again. They have NO chemistry, replace him with Hall if Krug goes and I am okay with that.

They will need to have someone fill in on the PP and provide dee scoring. Krug and Mac got most of the pts in the playoffs, the rest were no help at all. They dee had 2 goals all playoffs and no goals and 6 assists vs Tampa.

Time to see what the kids can do, bring up Frederic, Studnicka and Zboril.

 

[BlackFrancis]

Zboril Clifton

This defense pairing should be nicknamed The White Flag.

 

[McGarnagle]

I want Krug back but don't see it as realistic anymore given his comments. Some other team will throw big #1 defenseman money at him that we can't match

I think Studnicka makes the leap to fulltime regular next season. We might see some Senyshyn but I'm not sold on him.

I really think Kase and Debrusk would make perfect wingers for Coyle, and they're not as suited for Krejci. But doing that leaves Krejci with nothing unless he and Studnicka get some chemistry together. If Hall is a legit option a Hall-Krejci-Studnicka 2nd line and Debrusk-Coyle-Kase 3rd line would be tremendous. But not sure that's realistic - either getting Hall in the first place or getting Hall and still retaining Debrusk as an RFA.

If Hall doesn't work out, you'd need to get one of Toffoli/Hoffman, though neither really thrills me.

Another option would be to kick the tires on a deal involving the RFA rights of Josh Anderson - but Columbus wouldn't do that unless they really had a hard time signing him.

 

[ON3M4N]

I like the plan but the only thing I’d change is the XXX on Bergerons line.

I have no faith that anyone currently on the team will be good enough to make them a contender.

I’d rather they Trade for a legit second liner, IMO.

Studnicka could, Bergy raved about him during the return to play camp. Smart player, plays all 3 zones... exactly what that line likes

 

[PlayMakers]

I think JDB is good in front of the net when he wants to be. He’s not huge or overly physical, but he’s good at tipping pucks.

I think the only issue with Jake is that he’s a third liner dressed in second liners clothing.

I think DeBrusk is a square peg in a round hole in that role. He stands there on the PP because that's the role they give him but he doesn't stand there 5on5. Nobody in the top6 stands there, and nobody in the top6 can go shoulder to shoulder against big defensemen in the corners. It's a weapon we lack and one I think we could use, especially if it comes in the form of a player who also has speed and skill.

 

[easton117]

Studnicka could, Bergy raved about him during the return to play camp. Smart player, plays all 3 zones... exactly what that line likes

That line needs someone who can dig the puck out of the corners so Bergeron doesn’t have to.

Studnicka needs to put in about 30lbs of mass/muscle to be that guy

 

[sarge88]

Studnicka could, Bergy raved about him during the return to play camp. Smart player, plays all 3 zones... exactly what that line likes

Maybe.

But I hate relying on such young players in prominent roles if they are trying to contend.

What happens if he struggles?

Then they are where they seem to be every March...overpaying for a top 6 winger.

I’d rather they get that winger now for Bjork+ and let Studnicka develop on line 3.

 

[sarge88]

I think DeBrusk is a square peg in a round hole in that role. He stands there on the PP because that's the role they give him but he doesn't stand there 5on5. Nobody in the top6 stands there, and nobody in the top6 can go shoulder to shoulder against big defensemen in the corners. It's a weapon we lack and one I think we could use, especially if it comes in the form of a player who also has speed and skill.

Maybe Coyle could be that guy.

 

[BigBadBruin]

I don’t disagree the Bruins need to be aggressive in adding some real talent this year, but I think people are writing off Kase too early. He performed BETTER on the point sheet than either Coyle or Mojo did when they joined the team last year. He is young and has a 20 goal season under his belt. Was he a disappointment for this season? Yes. Was how he (and Pasta’s) approach coming out of the break discouraging? Yes. But folks just writing him off are making a mistake. He can be a useful two way middle six guy in the mold of Palat.

Totally agree. I really liked the Kase we saw against Carolina. But he took a big hit behind a net early in the last series which changed his game back to how it was in March, when he had his concussion issues. Kase reminds me a lot of Debrusk that they both can be relentless though maybe not as good as hands as JDB. I’m hoping a few more months off will help them both, with their concussion history. Kase to me was brought in because he is more of an inside player, though we didn’t see much of since the trade. Same as Ritchie but unless he improves his speed, it won’t matter much.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Going to put my dream team up with some contracts to see how it could fit... remember bruins are getting dinged with a severe cap penalty for next year. First here are the guys I keep

X/Charlie Coyle 5,250,000/David Pastranak 6,666,666
Brad Marchand 6,125,000/Patrice Bergeron 6,875,000/Andres Bjork 1,600,000
Nick Ritchie 1,498,925/Jack Studnicka .769,167/Ondrej Kase 2,600,000
Sean Kuraly 1,275,000/Trent Federic .925.000/Chris Wagner 1,350,000
Zach Senyshyn 863,333/Par Lindholm 850,000

absent from this list are david krejci/jake debrusk/joakim nordstrom... these decesions are made for cap reasons
cap hit for the forwards is $36, 798, 091 with one spot to fill... an impact first line left wing that will let Pastrak thrive

on defense I keep
X/Charlie McAvoy 4,900,000
Matt Grezlyck ???/Brandon Carlo 2,850,000
Zdeno Chara ???/X
Connor Clifton 1,000,000 {jacob Zboril might make the team if Wagner's health issues put him on the LTIR to start}

absent from this list are torey krug and john moore and jeremy lauzon
cap hit for the 3 signed dmen is 8,750,000 with 4 contracts to fill out

in goal
X
Jaroslav Halak 2,250.000

absent is Tuuka Rask
bringing our total cap hit for 17 signed players up to $47,498,091

So who are the missing pieces and how do we get them?

Trade #1
The basics of this one have been discussed before... but Im going to enlarge it slightly...
From Edmonton
Darnell Nurse {23 min per night 6'4 220 pounder that throws a couple hits per game and can produce 40 points for you RFA}
Jesse Puuljujarvi {has only gotten 12 mins of ice per game in parts of 3 seasons... big 6'4 rw with a world of raw talent RFA}

going to Edmonton
Jake Debrusk {speedy scorer for Connor's line}
Jeremy Lauzon {cheap replacement for losing Darnell Nurse physical element... Oilers are planning to go with small speeders in their top 4}
future draft pick based on Puuljujarvi's progress in games played

Trade #2
from Minnesota
Deven Dubnyk {yes hes coming up on 35... and yes he didnt play well last year... but he can split the load with halak 4,333,333}

going to Minnesota
David Krecji {have to assume he waives his NT conditions... im hearing mikko koivu is not coming back so Krecji slides right in}
Tukka Rask {also has 15 team nt list... but my gut says he is just going to retire anyhow}

Trade #3
John Moore for free to anyone that will take him... if there are no takers he might have to get buried to the AHL to save us some cap relief.

so signing the free agents

Darnell Nurse will be looking at tyler myers money so minimum 6 mill x 5-6 years
Matt Grzelyck... i see taking a short term deal like a 1 year 'prove it' for around 3 mill or slightly less
Zdeno Chara... ball is in our court now... he wants to come back but we are deep enough we can say no... he needs to take a chris chelious 1 mill type team friendly deal.
{we dont need to sign Puuljujarvi unless we develop a desperate need for him... let him ripen to perfection over in finland another year... think how Soderberg stayed over there until he mentally matured}

with Dubynk... these 3 free agents add 14,333,333 to our running total of 47,498, 091 for a new total of just $61,831.424
We have around 18 mill to round out the team {however keep in mind we would need raises next year}

so completeing the final 2 spots on the roster... I have two ufa signings

1/Taylor Hall... this kid is a winner... he won HUGE in JUNIOR... I used to listen to him in interviews all the time in Edmonton and he knows his NHL history. He was a fan of Boston. He is an actual NHL HART TROPHY WINNER!!! And sure, he partied too much in Edmonton but so did everyone there... face it, that is a shit organization. He was just a kid. Now he is about to turn 29 and this is the age alot of these elite talents get serious about their legacy. Hall has 218 goals and 563 points in 627 games. Tyler Seguin had 279 goals and 635 points in 741 games... so 114 more games and 61 goals/72 more points. I say throw the Tyler Seguin contract offer to Hall 7 yearsX9.85 million... not so much bonus money since we are in an epidemic...this is less than we were offering john tavares.

2/Justin Schultz... Just turned 30... 113 points in his last 234 games in Pittsburgh... a plus 43. Injuries have been a huge factor though and I dont think we would need to give him a gi-normous contract. He will be backup insurance if McAvoy/Grzelyck can't handle PP QB duties. We have Jack Ahcan just signed too... I say give Schultz a two year deal for around 3.5 mill... expose him to seattle in next year's draft.

these two ufa signings are 13,350 mill bringing our cap hit for the year up to 75,181,424 {plus whatever John Moore might cost us in the AHL... and we are retaining 1.5 on David Backes... so that will will probably give us around 2 million dollars room to make improvements or even give chara a slight bonus perhaps?}

And the finished lineup looks like...

Taylor Hall/Charlie Coyle/David Pastrnak
Brad Marchand/Patrice Bergeron/Andres Bjork
Nick Ritchie/Jack Studnicka/Ondrej Kase
Sean Kuraly/Trent Federic/Chris Wagner
Zach Senyshyn/Par Lindholm

Darnell Nurse/Charlie McAvoy
Matt Gryzelyck/Brandon Carlo
Zdeno Chara/Justin Schultz
Connor Clifton

Deven Dubynyk
Jaroslav Halak

{Jesse Puuljarvi sitting in the wings if Bjork cant keep his spot}
{couple million cap room to add a center if Studnica/Federic falter... Kuraly can bump into the middle too}
{not sure how Wagner's health scare is... but I wouldnt mind giving Zboril a chance to be on the team to start the year... go with 8 dmen}
{i'm banking some on Dubynk bouncing back... but if he doesn't we got room to add someone at the deadline}

this team adds significant truculance keeping ritchie and chara in his reduced importance.... adding Nurse and Federic. Nurse doesnt go with the true HW's often but he will go 3-4 times a year with crap disturbers. Ritchie's biggest problem was his conditioning...now he has abit of an off-season to show he gives a damn about his nhl career on his new team. and chara is free'd up to fight more often now that he isnt the number 1 dman and the only left shot guy that can kill penalties.

we add some speed... Hall can fly and plays a more straight forward game that should suit Pastrnak. Studnicka being a regular add's speed and will move to the top line the second the coaches feel he is ready. Senyshyn adds speed if he plays in place of Wagner to start the season... and Schultz is a very good skating/puck mover better than Krug was

this move to add Hall... should protect Bergeron/Marchand some from facing the top checking every shift. Bergeron/Marchand are at their best when they focus defense first and then just score as opportunities present themselves. Both guys are getting older and being allowed to move into a second line role should prolong their effectiveness

Nurse suffers when asked to be the primary puck mover... but he has the tools to do an adequate job when called upon as the second option. His physical game should really suit McAvoy well... and his willingness to stay back should continue to free McAvoy up to flourish more offensively.

sorry for the wall of text... but felt like killing an hour today and wanted to bring in cap management consideration to our conversation

 

[BB88]

The issue for me, is that none of those guys provide a Coyle-like presence in the top6, and IMO that's an important element that we're missing. Nobody sets screens, nobody takes away the goalie's eyes... We also don't have guys in the top6 who can protect the puck against bigger D. It's pretty passing plays or nothing. Find me someone in the free agent market who can bring those elements and I'd be all for signing them.

I can live with a Saad addition if it's something like 2nd+ non Studnicka prospect.

But I'm not a fan of going after Palmieri with a 1st+ and paying top money for him when there's Hall, Dadonov, Hoffman right there available for only money.

I don’t disagree the Bruins need to be aggressive in adding some real talent this year, but I think people are writing off Kase too early. He performed BETTER on the point sheet than either Coyle or Mojo did when they joined the team last year. He is young and has a 20 goal season under his belt. Was he a disappointment for this season? Yes. Was how he (and Pasta’s) approach coming out of the break discouraging? Yes. But folks just writing him off are making a mistake. He can be a useful two way middle six guy in the mold of Palat.

I didn't single out Kase, I like him, but he is a example where Sweeney should put him on the 3rd line hoping he develops into top6 guy, not to put him on the 2nd line hoping for the best.

You can't just put bunch of unproven guys into the midd6 and pray someone's the answer, this team isn't retooling or rebuilding. It's trying to win and has tried for years.

You very well know what's been going on the last 5 years and the constant search for 2nd line scoring, this summer is ideal for ending it while having guys like Kase cheap working on their game with less pressure.

 

[The don godfather]

I'm no general manager but I see this quite simple and easy.
1. Vak full time bye bye Torey thanks for the memories especially torching the rangers. I cant stand them.
2. Sign DK 2 yrs to cap friendly contract
3. Trade john Moore even for a 7 th round pick. Someone will bite for depth D plus his cap hit is good.
4. Bring in rask and halak

5.Chara resigns one year cheap.
6.This is the most important sign hall and surrender to his agents demands and get his butt in here .
All done lets rock !!!!

 

[PlayMakers]

I'm not a fan of going after Palmieri with a 1st+ and paying top money for him when there's Hall, Dadonov, Hoffman right there available for only money.

I agree. If they just want to add scoring they can add that in free agency.

But if they want to add what's been missing they'll need to trade for it.

 

[GordonHowe]

If the core is really past it's window, and it may well be, then why the hell bring Chara back at all? Deal Moore, let Nordy go. Maybe move Wagner or Lindholm also. The sooner they get started on getting your younger players acclimated and properly assessed, the less painful any sort of rebuild/retool is going to be. Zboril and Senyshyn need to play, not least because while they can never make up for the failure to draft Voldemort, I don't see how see Sweeney just admits total defeat there. Zboril needs to play and so does Senyshyn and let's see if something can salvaged from those picks. We also have Studnicka that needs to play, Frederic should also get a longer look this year. It's time for the Bruins to see what they really have in the cupboard. This isn't blowing up the roster, but the time is now to start the transition and it can begin by not re-signing the corpse of Zdeno Chara.

I suppose you are right that they need to play JZ and ZS to at least find out what they have. After that, get rid of both. I'm tired of hearing about them.

Bloodyminded? Yes.

As for Chara, he is not a "corpse." He can still bring value as a strong, smart shutdown defenseman in a limited role. He can also bring intangible value as the great leader and person that he is.

Do not underestimate this when speaking of bringing in Jack, Trent, or whomever.

One more season to say hail and farewell, to end things properly for one of the greatest Bruins ever.

 

[GordonHowe]

I think JDB is good in front of the net when he wants to be. He’s not huge or overly physical, but he’s good at tipping pucks.

I think the only issue with Jake is that he’s a third liner dressed in second liners clothing.

Maybe I'd keep DeBrusk in a third line role. He is not a second line player. Again, if the guy is streaky and gives you nothing else, and then goes dark with predictable regularlity, what good is he? If I can't depend on a player to preform consistently and reliably, I get rid of him.

And that's what I'd do with DeBrusk. Trade him. Don't waste cap space better applied elsewhere. They can still get something of value for him.

 

[BB88]

I agree. If they just want to add scoring they can add that in free agency.

But if they want to add what's been missing they'll need to trade for it.

I just don’t like this teams trade assets currently.

What if you add one of the players mentioned above for the scoring, main focus this offseason and with lesser assets try to address your concern?

I just don’t want them to continue the same path they’ve been going, because it’s not enough anymore
& as I’ve repeated this is a time when they could add Hall without entering cap hell

There’s so much money coming off the books in recent years with few signing to look ahead

 

[sarge88]

Maybe I'd keep DeBrusk in a third line role. He is not a second line player. Again, if the guy is streaky and gives you nothing else, and then goes dark with predictable regularlity, what good is he? If I can't depend on a player to preform consistently and reliably, I get rid of him.

And that's what I'd do with DeBrusk. Trade him. Don't waste cap space better applied elsewhere. They can still get something of value for him.

I can’t say that I’d be heartbroken if they moved him, but if it came down to him playing on line 3 or Bjork, Ritchie, Kuhlman, etc. I’d take JDB 100/100.

 

[sarge88]

I agree. If they just want to add scoring they can add that in free agency.

But if they want to add what's been missing they'll need to trade for it.

By what’s missing you mean a physical and productive forward, right?