WJC: 2019 WJC U20 D1A in Füssen, Germany (9/12 - 15/12 2018)

[SoundAndFury]

Looks like Germany won't be getting promoted anytime soon.

Why do you have to go this far. Sure Belarus are slight favorites but those are very different teams, anything can happen in one game.

 

[Maverick41]

So true. The only 3 guys that really stand out.

3 stand out players is more than we've had in most years. And guys like Fischer, Brunnhuber, Jentzsch and Gawanke (who can certainly play better) offer better depth than in recent years. Also Hendrik Hane is a decent goalie something we have also been missing.

This year might be too soon, but if everybody is available, I already look forward to next year's team.

 

[KahunWOW]

Yeah, you are probably right.

 

[tony d]

Both the A and B tournaments happen this week. Always like following these to see how the secondary nations do. Belarus is in 1st thus far in the A tourney, got to think whoever wins between them and Germany on Thursday gets promoted.

 

[su24]

The depth could be a difference maker between Germany and Belarus. Belarusians can put pressure on opponents ant keep it for extended periods of time. They just push the gas pedal and keep coming at you no matter what line is on the ice. Every single line has scored today. Germans can't afford to sustain such pressure.
Maybe that's just my wishful thinking though.

Also everyone (coach and players) has noticed after the game that France is a pretty fast team. Alistrov said that France is a better team than Norway.

 

[su24]

I just took a look at schedule. Germans are cheaters. On a weekdays the hosting team always plays last so all their fans could attend the game (like today), but on Wednesday Germany plays before Belarus so they gonna have more time to rest. Cheaters.

 

[kabidjan18]

I just took a look at schedule. Germans are cheaters. On a weekdays the hosting team always plays last so all their fans could attend the game (like today), but on Wednesday Germany plays before Belarus so they gonna have more time to rest. Cheaters.

I hope you are joking.

 

[Scouter]

Why do you have to go this far. Sure Belarus are slight favorites but those are very different teams, anything can happen in one game.

Because their team isn't as good as Belarus, the have a 3 players then a bunch of scrubs, plus they haven't looked good so far, should have crushed Norway, but Norway gave them a game, what more do you need. I'm also talking about the future too and how things are run, they always ice weaker older teams.

 

[SoundAndFury]

It's all h4x man. I hear they use aimbot on PP as well.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Because their team isn't as good as Belarus, the have a 3 players then a bunch of scrubs, plus they haven't looked good so far, should have crushed Norway, but Norway gave them a game, what more do you need. I'm also talking about the future too and how things are run, they always ice weaker older teams.

Not like Belarus looked great in any of their games. Also calling guys like Gawanke, Jentzsch or Fisher scrubs in light of Belarus opposition just takes away any legitimacy your opinion might have had.

They have comparable roster strength, very different style, different roster structure (Germany is obviously much more top-heavy) and neither has looked flawless. All their leaders you mentioned aren't 19 yet and will be eligible to return next year yet you call this weaker older team (compared to whom?).

None of your statements are well supported and your double-downing on Belarus' superiority is just

 

[kabidjan18]

Why do you have to go this far. Sure Belarus are slight favorites but those are very different teams, anything can happen in one game.

I agree with you, generally speaking.

But this is precisely the problem in a sense. We're doing a fast-forward to Thursday type drill which is somewhat unrealistic. In a single game, anything can happen. Germany hasn't played France, they haven't played Latvia. Belarus hasn't played Latvia or Austria. Even if you say there's a 70% chance that the favorite wins each of those games, 70% each game over 4 games, we're talking about maybe a 1 in 4 chance that both teams run the rest of the table.

And then there's Belarus-Germany. That's where we could get into a scenario where one team might have to just win in regulation, or another team might just have to get a single point. If Germany drops the Latvia game, for instance, and Belarus runs the table, the Germany could win in regulation and still not get promoted. So I think we're a long way away from saying that it all comes down to the odds of the Belarus Germany game.

 

[su24]

I hope you are joking.

I'm 100% serious. Everything is important and a few extra hours of rest could be critical. Do you have any other explanation why Germany plays before Belarus on Wednesday? Hosting teams always play last, like today, like at every tournament before, in any sports.

 

[SoundAndFury]

I'm 100% serious. Everything is important and a few extra hours of rest could be critical. Do you have any other explanation why Germany plays before Belarus on Wednesday? Hosting teams always play last, like today, like at every tournament before, in any sports.

That is not what cheating is.

 

[Scouter]

Not like Belarus looked great in any of their games. Also calling guys like Gawanke, Jentzsch or Fisher scrubs in light of Belarus opposition just takes away any legitimacy your opinion might have had.

They have comparable roster strength, very different style, different roster structure (Germany is obviously much more top-heavy) and neither has looked flawless. All their leaders you mentioned aren't 19 yet and will be eligible to return next year yet you call this weaker older team (compared to whom?).

None of your statements are well supported and your double-downing on Belarus' superiority is just

Belarus have looked pretty good actually, at least good enough, they took out a good France team today pretty handily, France had a moment there, but it was quickly snuffed out, Belarus started to play much better after they went down, which means tehy can easily up their game when needed, which is the mark of top teams, France have a good shot at finishing 2nd. Ok.

Ok, so Germany are better than years past, I'm saying that Germany normally ice's older teams rather than picking better younger players cause they believe in age vs. youth, maybe they are changing things, but honestly I don't think anyone here thinks Germany are better than Belarus, except for you perhaps.

 

[su24]

That is not what cheating is.

Call it however you want. I gonna call it cheating. I dislike so many things about this tournament that I'm out of words already. Broadcasting, stats tracking (that's a different long story), the farmer's barn where they play, the scheduling... Keniya would have organized the tournament better. I almost wish Belarus played in 1B in Poland right now.

(Germany is obviously much more top-heavy)

LOL.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Belarus have looked pretty good actually, at least good enough, they took out a good France team today pretty handily, France had a moment there, but it was quickly snuffed out, Belarus started to play much better after they went down, which means tehy can easily up their game when needed, which is the mark of top teams, France have a good shot at finishing 2nd. Ok.

Ok, so Germany are better than years past, I'm saying that Germany normally ice's older teams rather than picking better younger players cause they believe in age vs. youth, maybe they are changing things, but honestly I don't think anyone here thinks Germany are better than Belarus, except for you perhaps.

Well Belarus had to say their butts in a very stressful manner in the first game and really only managed because Norway was giving them PPs like candy. And even then, after they managed to pull ahead, they gave Norway 2 straight PPs, including a very brief 5 on 3, making it a very stressful ending. Is that upping up their game? Playing the last 3 minutes of it shorthanded? Everything you said can be applied to Germany too. They looked very good against Norway (the team Belarus barely managed to beat) and not so good in a game against Austria. But somehow to you, even though both teams had 1 good game and 1 bad one, it gives Belarus the edge. There are no actual arguments to support your claims other than pure speculation. You even went as far as saying France has a good shot at finishing 2nd.. What? How? Why?

Also I never said Germany is better than Belarus, I have actually said the opposite myself. It's like arguing with a hysterical girlfriend. Nobody is attacking you, this is a safe space, calm down and take a deep breath. However, the Belarussian superiority, how you imagine it, is only supported by trivial arguments you are trying to pull in your favor. Nobody has a problem with Belarus being slight favorites, the problem is with you saying they outclass "German scrubs".

Call it however you want. I gonna call it cheating. I dislike so many things about this tournament that I'm out of words already. Broadcasting, stats tracking (that's a different long story), the farmer's barn where they play, the scheduling... Keniya would have organized the tournament better. I almost wish Belarus played in 1B in Poland right now.

For the most part, host nation can arrange the schedule whichever way they like, it comes with the territory. That isn't cheating, somebody would have had to play later in any case. Also 3 hours is hardly crucial in such a game.

The rest of the stuff though, I like the barn. Everything else isn't great, I agree. The tournament in the French Alps village a few years ago was worse. I guess those big countries feel like they can afford to not try and pay as little attention as possible.

 

[su24]

Not like Belarus looked great in any of their games. Also calling guys like Gawanke, Jentzsch or Fisher scrubs in light of Belarus opposition just takes away any legitimacy your opinion might have had.

They have comparable roster strength, very different style, different roster structure (Germany is obviously much more top-heavy) and neither has looked flawless. All their leaders you mentioned aren't 19 yet and will be eligible to return next year yet you call this weaker older team (compared to whom?).

None of your statements are well supported and your double-downing on Belarus' superiority is just

Saying that bolded part definitely takes away any legitimacy your opinion might have had.
I'm not sure if I'd have taken the top-3 German players over the top-3 Belarus players for this tournament, leave alone the "obviously much more" part. All the German leaders are younger and inconsistent, they're less experienced. I would't take Kolyachonok over Sapego, Yeryomenko or Deryabin for this tournament, but for you it's "obvious" that Seider is much better than them?
I'm not sure if Bokk is better than Sushko right now, who's been a real leader so far. Sushko is more matured, he's more of a complete player, while Bokk plays a lot like he's on a pond with kids. Sushko is centering the 1st line, playing QB on PP and killing penalties. Bokk wouldn't be able to do a half of the things Sushko is doing. Bokk's more comparable to Drozov than to Sushko. And Drozdov has scored a couple goals already.
And who's 3rd? Schultz? I won't even go there. Yeah, so much for Germans being obviously much more top-heavy.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Saying that bolded part definitely takes away any legitimacy your opinion might have had.

Can you make sure you at least understand what's written before writing a wall of text about it?

Those words mean the gap between German leaders and role players are way greater than on the Belarussian one as Belarus obviously has better depth. "The roster structure is top-heavy" as in a lot more firepower is at the top of the lineup. Should I have been more clear to your paranoid brain to process it? Or do you feel the need to write some more paragraphs after completely misunderstanding something anyway? I think all this pressure you put on yourself as the perceived champions in the making is really kicking you in the head.

 

[su24]

Can you make sure you at least understand what's written before writing a wall of text about it?

Those words mean the gap between German leaders and role players are way greater than on the Belarussian one as Belarus obviously has better depth. "The roster structure is top-heavy" as in a lot more firepower is at the top of the lineup. Should I have been more clear to your paranoid brain to process it? Or do you feel the need to write some more paragraphs after completely misunderstanding something anyway? I think all this pressure you put on yourself as the perceived champions in the making is really kicking you in the head.

We came to conclusion that Belarus bottom lines are close to their top-lines, while "the gap between German leaders and role players are way greater". Good. But you also said that "they have comparable roster strength"! That's where I got lost and made conclusion that in you world German top-players are much better than Belarusian leaders. Now I found out that I was wrong. I guess you have your very own measurements of "strength'.
And you jumped at the guy who called those role players "a bunch of scrubs". So the gap is not too big to call them "scrubs", but it's big enough to call the German team "top heavy". Where is the border that he crossed in you world?
Also saying that Belarus managed to beat Norway "only because Norway was giving them PPs like candy" gives me impression that you have to visit your doctor more often. You know, in the game of hockey teams that play better and faster tend to get some PP time and they allowed to score, right?

 

[kabidjan18]

Saying that bolded part definitely takes away any legitimacy your opinion might have had.
I'm not sure if I'd have taken the top-3 German players over the top-3 Belarus players for this tournament, leave alone the "obviously much more" part. All the German leaders are younger and inconsistent, they're less experienced. I would't take Kolyachonok over Sapego, Yeryomenko or Deryabin for this tournament, but for you it's "obvious" that Seider is much better than them?
I'm not sure if Bokk is better than Sushko right now, who's been a real leader so far. Sushko is more matured, he's more of a complete player, while Bokk plays a lot like he's on a pond with kids. Sushko is centering the 1st line, playing QB on PP and killing penalties. Bokk wouldn't be able to do a half of the things Sushko is doing. Bokk's more comparable to Drozov than to Sushko. And Drozdov has scored a couple goals already.
And who's 3rd? Schultz? I won't even go there. Yeah, so much for Germans being obviously much more top-heavy.

First of all, basic english, when someone says something is "more top heavy" that means with respect to itself, rather than "has a heavier top" which is with respect to a competing entity. So the entire rant is based off of you not comprehending basic english and straw-manning him. It's your second language, so alright. Here's a pass.

Second. You know nothing about Schutz. You didn't even spell his name right. You don't know the quality of the league he plays in. You've probably never seen him play before this tournament. And few people do, even Germans, because he plays in Salzburg. So I'm going to step in for him. Bokk is better than Drozdov. And Schutz is better than Sushko. Schutz is a winger, but he's a line driver. That's how he got an assist against a loaded Loko team. That's how he got a point in the DEL in only limited appearances with limited ice time. That's how he drives his own line in the Alps League, a men's league full of imports who previously played in the Canadian and American junior leagues when they were in juniors, or have many years of experience playing senior hockey. And that's how he has more points than Sushko so far in the tournament. He's faster. His edge-work is better. He's a better dangler. He's every bit the passer that Sushko is.

You say Sushko got better. It's funny how he got better and now scores significantly less than he did last season. It's funny because he's been the 4th-5th best forward on his team the last two years, and whenever the center who is driving his line, be it Kevin Hancock (usually), or Aidan Dudas or Nick Suzuki (occasionally) decide not to pass it to him. Mhm, the points go down. Well daddy Kevin ain't here. Big daddy Egor isn't either. Maxi has got to drive his own line now. Maybe he does alright at it. But you mentioned something above, "experience." Well, when it comes to age, Justin is younger. But when it comes to experience driving his own line like a big boy, Justin's got plenty of that.

 

[SoundAndFury]

So you don't think that Germans top-players are much better than Belarus top-players. Good. Also we came to conclusion that Belarus bottom lines are close to their top-lines, while "the gap between German leaders and role players are way greater". Even better. But you also said that "they have comparable roster strength"! That's where I got lost and made conclusion that in you world German top-players are much better than Belarusian leaders. Now I found out that I was wrong. I guess you have your very own measurements of "strength'.
And you jumped at the guy who called those role players "a bunch of scrubs". So the gap is not too big to call them "scrubs", but it's big enough to call the German team "top heavy". Where is the border that he crossed in you world?
Also saying that Belarus managed to beat Norway "only because Norway was giving them PPs like candy" gives me impression that you have to visit your doctor more often. You know, in the game of hockey teams that play better and faster tend to get some PP time and they allowed to score, right?

Now, since you want to get into this much detail:

1) Germans have the better goalie, might not mean anything in a single game but might do
2) Belarus has a better defense but it's not a game-breaking difference, German defense is deep as well with quality players on the top
3) Belarus definitely has better depth with players like Protas on the 3rd line but Sushko is no Bokk no matter how close YOU do think they are. At the end of the day, Germans have the only game-breaking offensive talent. I do agree he hasn't been playing the most mature game but he still has at least 2 games to feel out the competition and the potential is definitely there. It's quite usual for those star players to try to do too much in such competitions, at least at the start. You can see Drozg doing the same thing for Slovenia, you can even see Drozdov chasing the puck like crazy on PK and forcing turnovers while against better team he would just cause breakdowns of his own PK unit. You also seem to underrate someone like Schutz massively for reasons only known to you while in reality, he has been very good. If he played for Belarus you would be writing paragraphs about how he is at least as good as Sushko, probably. And yes, Germany is top-heavy, much of their firepower is on the first line but their depth players like Fisher or Brunnhuber aren't terrible. The real difference starts in the bottom 6/2nd PP unit.

So overall, the balance tips into Belarus' favor but the roster strength is comparable - there are aspects where Germans are better, they aren't being outclassed and definitely not to the extent of not having a chance in a single game.

 

[SoundAndFury]

It's kinda funny this guy requires so much talking down from two people who generally agree Belarus is the actual favorite. Would make a pretty good Leafs fan.

 

[su24]

First of all, basic english, when someone says something is "more top heavy" that means with respect to itself, rather than "has a heavier top" which is with respect to a competing entity. So the entire rant is based off of you not comprehending basic english and straw-manning him. It's your second language, so alright. Here's a pass.

Second. You know nothing about Schutz. You didn't even spell his name right. You don't know the quality of the league he plays in. You've probably never seen him play before this tournament. And few people do, even Germans, because he plays in Salzburg. So I'm going to step in for him. Bokk is better than Drozdov. And Schutz is better than Sushko. Schutz is a winger, but he's a line driver. That's how he got an assist against a loaded Loko team. That's how he got a point in the DEL in only limited appearances with limited ice time. That's how he drives his own line in the Alps League, a men's league full of imports who previously played in the Canadian and American junior leagues when they were in juniors, or have many years of experience playing senior hockey. And that's how he has more points than Sushko so far in the tournament. He's faster. His edge-work is better. He's a better dangler. He's every bit the passer that Sushko is.

You say Sushko got better. It's funny how he got better and now scores significantly less than he did last season. It's funny because he's been the 4th-5th best forward on his team the last two years, and whenever the center who is driving his line, be it Kevin Hancock (usually), or Aidan Dudas or Nick Suzuki (occasionally) decide not to pass it to him. Mhm, the points go down. Well daddy Kevin ain't here. Big daddy Egor isn't either. Maxi has got to drive his own line now. Maybe he does alright at it. But you mentioned something above, "experience." Well, when it comes to age, Justin is younger. But when it comes to experience driving his own line like a big boy, Justin's got plenty of that.

I know nothing about Schutz, didn't see anything from him to get impressed and said nothing about him. But I'm confident you know nothing about Sushko, but wrote a whole paragraph of nonsense about him.
I followed Bokk more and he pays as I said like a kid on the pond.
You were saying me that points in junior hockey mean a little, but after that you use Sushko's numbers as an argument that he couldn't get better? But ok, since you know nothing about him I'll tell you a little story. In the Philly's camp he was told to get better defensively, so he started to work on his defense. He had only 2 points in 9 games to start his OHL season, but he also was extremely unlucky. Then he scored 20 points in his last 20 OHL games, and you say that's "SIGNIFICANTLY less than last season"?!!! Check your facts and head then. He also became the best defensive forward I've seen on Belarus U20 team like ever.
Sushko plays as a 1st line center (you have to be good defensivelely) and he plays point on the PP (you have to be good defensively). He also plays on the PK and even there creates scoring chances: he should have had 2 SHORTHANDED points alone already (Sushko was the one who sent his partner 1 on 1 SH, but Drozdov was taken down and scored on the PS after that). He was skating circles around that fast French team, took 6 shots on goal and created as many scoring chances! The only problem: he's too enthusiastic playing defense and takes too much penalties. He also could have had a few more points on the PP: you know, Belarus wins the games because of their PP, so he runs it pretty well. I don't want even listen to the nonsense that some younger winger, who I didn't even notice, is better than him.
Also saying that 2018 6th round pick winger is already better than 2017 4th round pick center is... to put it lightly... stretching... . Just like comparing their points after 2 games at this tournament is more than laughable. Sushko could have had 6 points and that wouldn't have changed anything.

 

[kabidjan18]

I know nothing about Schutz, didn't see anything from him to get impressed and said nothing about him. But I'm confident you know nothing about Sushko, but wrote a whole paragraph of nonsense about him.
You were saying me that points in junior hockey mean a little, but after that you use Sushko's numbers as an argument that he couldn't get better? But ok, since you know nothing about him I'll tell you a little story. In the Philly's camp he was told to get better defensively, so he started to work on his defense. He had only 2 points in 9 games to start his OHL season, but he also was extremely unlucky. Then he scored 20 points in his last 20 OHL games, and you say that's "SIGNIFICANTLY less than last season"?!!! Check your facts and head then. He also became the best defensive forward I've seen on Belarus U20 team like ever.
Sushko plays as a 1st line center (you have to be good defensivelely) and he plays point on the PP (you have to be good defensively). He also plays on the PK and even there creates scoring chances: he should have had 2 SHORTHANDED points alone already (Sushko was the one who sent his partner 1 on 1 SH, but Drozdov was taken down and scored on the PS after that). He was skating circles around that fast French team, took 6 shots on goal and created as many scoring chances! The only problem: he's too enthusiastic playing defense and takes too much penalties. He also could have had a few more points on the pp because, you know, Belarus wins the games because of their PP, so he runs it pretty well. I don't want even listen to the nonsense that some younger winger, who I didn't even notice, is better than him.
Also saying that 2018 6th round pick winger is already better than 2017 4th round pick center is... to put it lightly... stretching... . Just like comparing their points after 2 games at this tournament is more than laughable. Sushko could have had 6 points and that wouldn't have changed anything.

Points mean little precisely because of what happened with Sushko. First of all, the bolded is hilarious. You can't just erase a down part of the season because it doesn't fit your narrative. That's hilariously dumb. He started the season on Owen Sound's 3rd line, that's why he started with 2 in 9. So clearly, when tasked with being the best player on his own line, no bueno. Since then he was moved to Hancock's line, but sometimes has played with Dudas or Suzuki. Then suddenly 20 points in 20 games. What a coincidence. It's almost like when you're slapped onto a line with two of the top players in the OHL who can do all the work for you, your point totals will suddenly rise. The fact that you even try to throw in luck there as a way to erase part of the season that doesn't fit your narrative. What about this fact for you bro!! Dominik Bokk went on a 12 game "unlucky" streak in the SHL. Outisde of those games, he has had 10 points in 9 games. Over PPG in the SHL!! CHECK YO FACTS BRO! You must be wrong in the head or something. Lmao.

Your story is hilarious because it means absolutely nothing. First of all, you accuse me of using a sample of four but your story is by definition a sample of one. So you should be laughing at yourself, but of course you'd never do that.

Also, the fact that you try to use year and a half old draft position as proxy is hilarious and you know it. Being drafted in 2017 in the 4th was a projection on Philly's part of where he'd be when he reached maturity, it's not an up-to-date ranking of where he is as a player now. Dozens of players drafted after him turned out to be better prospects than him. You could, in fact, use the same argument for Mathias Emilio Pettersson being worse than Sushko, and I dare you to go to the main boards with a poll like that and see how many people agree with you because both you and I know you'd get trampled. Furthermore, you call him a center, hilariously, though he doesn't project as a center, doesn't play center for Owen Sound, didn't even play Center for Belarus last season. He's not a center, I don't know who you're trying to fool with that. I assume you know he's not a center so you're lying, not ignorant, but when he was drafted Philadelphia didn't think "this guy is going to be a center one day for us."

 

[SoundAndFury]

They had to adjust and adapt for the 1st half of the game. Sushko played at center for the 1st time since he was 15. He was sliding to the wing all the time.

Two days later:

Saying that 2018 6th round pick winger is already better than 2017 4th round pick center is... to put it lightly... stretching...

Pretty much sums this guy up. He called Sushko a center and accused somebody else of stretching things in the same sentence. Class act.