Blue Jays GDT: 2019 v3|Next: vs TB |Sat, Sept 28 | 3pm ET/12pm PT | TBA vs Thornton

The Nemesis

Semper Tyrannus
Apr 11, 2005
88,326
31,699
Langley, BC
Buck is an idiot with his opener rants.

There are less than 60 pitchers in baseball who are at or close to being able to log 30 starts this season.

There's maybe 8 or 9 who average close to 7 innings per start (and none who actually do)

Buck wants to build a rotation that doesn't exist. And his insistence that Zeuch being put out there the way he has to day is somehow not developing him to be a proper starter is asinine. They're trying to get him acclimated to MLB without unnecessarily destroying him, and this is a better way to do it than the old school method of just shoving him into a faceless bullpen role for a season or chucking him into the deep end right away.

This is getting about as dumb as his weird paradoxical griping about pitch framing.
 

The Nemesis

Semper Tyrannus
Apr 11, 2005
88,326
31,699
Langley, BC
What did he say?

He thinks it's stupid. He would want his team to "develop starters. Not develop openers or bulk arms." He wants to build a rotation of "real starters" who give you 30 starts a year and go 7 innings per start.

He's not wrong that the ideal is, of course, to have workhorse starters who can pitch well while shouldering the bulk of the load each time out. But the reality is that those types are rarer than he thinks and that given the choice between having a Rick Porcello in your rotation (I await the inevitable "but Cy Young!" retort) and using an opener/bulk guy combo that produces potentially better results, I'm not choosing Porcello just because he's a "workhorse starter" and the other setup isn't.

I'd love if FG or BR kept track of unified "starter equivalent" stats for opener games (combining the performance of the opener and the guy that comes in after him and presumably pitches the bulk of the game's middle innings) just to see how something like Font/Zeuch or Font/Thornton or Font/Whoever performed as a unit compared to lauded "real" starters like Porcello, Yusei Kikuchi, Ivan Nova, Reynaldo Lopez, Mike Leake or even JA Happ who have made 29/30 starts and have ERAs and SIERAs north of 4.50
 

canucksfan

Registered User
Mar 16, 2002
43,958
9,553
British Columbia
Visit site
He thinks it's stupid. He would want his team to "develop starters. Not develop openers or bulk arms." He wants to build a rotation of "real starters" who give you 30 starts a year and go 7 innings per start.

He's not wrong that the ideal is, of course, to have workhorse starters who can pitch well while shouldering the bulk of the load each time out. But the reality is that those types are rarer than he thinks and that given the choice between having a Rick Porcello in your rotation (I await the inevitable "but Cy Young!" retort) and using an opener/bulk guy combo that produces potentially better results, I'm not choosing Porcello just because he's a "workhorse starter" and the other setup isn't.

I'd love if FG or BR kept track of unified "starter equivalent" stats for opener games (combining the performance of the opener and the guy that comes in after him and presumably pitches the bulk of the game's middle innings) just to see how something like Font/Zeuch or Font/Thornton or Font/Whoever performed as a unit compared to lauded "real" starters like Porcello, Yusei Kikuchi, Ivan Nova, Reynaldo Lopez, Mike Leake or even JA Happ who have made 29/30 starts and have ERAs and SIERAs north of 4.50

Thing that bugs me is the game changes and teams have to adapt or else they will fail. Buck refuses to adapt despite the facts saying otherwise.
 

The Nemesis

Semper Tyrannus
Apr 11, 2005
88,326
31,699
Langley, BC
Thing that bugs me is the game changes and teams have to adapt or else they will fail. Buck refuses to adapt despite the facts saying otherwise.

Yep. So many of his rants basically come off as "this is how the game was when I played and it was good enough for me, so it should be good enough now godammit."

What also makes it ridiculous is that Zeuch is not being developed to be a "bulk arm" that always follows an opener. I would be shocked if the plan isn't to go into next year with him being a proper starter. But given that Font has been awesome as an opener and that Zeuch could probably do well to avoid having to face the top of the lineup a time or two I don't see the downside to doing what they're doing right now.

It's still slightly less frustrating than his pitch framing nonsense though. At least with the opener he's consistent. When it comes to pitch framing he somehow manages to simultaneously believe that a) It's a real thing that catchers have skill at doing and benefits their team and b) that everyone pays attention to it far too much because it's not a real thing where catchers are out there stealing strikes and cheating the umpire and people harp on it too much because what really is a catching skill is just "receiving" the ball. If not for the paradoxical way he straddles both sides, it almost sounds like he just hates the name "pitch framing" because it's new-school and not because of what it actually represents.
 

hoglund

Registered User
Dec 8, 2013
5,797
1,281
Canada
Buck is just old school, there's nothing wrong with that as long as the colour man can give opinions to new school, this gives fans the benefit of both.
 

Suntouchable13

Registered User
Dec 20, 2003
43,346
18,647
Toronto, ON
Buck is just old school, there's nothing wrong with that as long as the colour man can give opinions to new school, this gives fans the benefit of both.

The problem is that Buck is not a PBP guy. They need to get rid of both him and Tabby. Now Dan Shulman is a proper PBP guy while Buck is awful at both PBP and colour. And Tabby, I don't know what he brings to the broadcast.
 
  • Like
Reactions: stickty111

hoglund

Registered User
Dec 8, 2013
5,797
1,281
Canada
I don't mind Buck. I would like a change. Ultimately, when presented with facts that oppose his view point he doesn't change his mind. In fact, it seems he digs his heels in more. That's being ignorant. It's not just one example either.
I think ignorant is the wrong word, I think you mean stubborn.
 

The Nemesis

Semper Tyrannus
Apr 11, 2005
88,326
31,699
Langley, BC
Buck is stubborn about his ignorance. He admits he doesn't know them, but that never stops him from attempting clumsy, wrong-headed takedowns based off of faulty assumptions that come from his lack of knowledge. And instead of improving his understanding to form a better opinion (positive or negative), he steadfastly clings to this idea that because he knew how the game was 40 years ago when he played he doesn't need to understand anything that's happened since. pitch counts are evil, shifts are evil, framing is stupid, openers are ruining the game, strikeouts are for losers, pitcher wins are all that matters, and you can't understand the game from watching video on a tablet or a little card stuck to your hat. Because how it used to be was good enough for George Brett so it should be good enough for everyone else.
 
  • Like
Reactions: stickty111

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,611
84,143
Vancouver, BC
Buck was a good colour guy 20-30 years ago as a recently-retired player commenting on a game that hadn’t hadn’t changed much since he played.

Unfortunately, since then the sport has changed in a massive way and he simply hasn’t adapted ... and worse, he’s dug in his heels as a protester of that change.

He’s 71 years old and time eventually passes everyone by.
 

The Nemesis

Semper Tyrannus
Apr 11, 2005
88,326
31,699
Langley, BC
Buck was a good colour guy 20-30 years ago as a recently-retired player commenting on a game that hadn’t hadn’t changed much since he played.

Unfortunately, since then the sport has changed in a massive way and he simply hasn’t adapted ... and worse, he’s dug in his heels as a protester of that change.

He’s 71 years old and time eventually passes everyone by.

It's the latter that's the real problem. I don't care if he doesn't embrace new concepts like advanced stats or shifts or whatever. He can laugh about how "it wasn't like that in my day" all he wants and I wouldn't really bat an eye. The problem is when he turns talk about new concepts into a pulpit from which to grouse about how it's ruining the game or how the advancements are stupid and unnecessary from a position of ignorance. I don't need him to love WAR, I just need him to not complain that it's useless because it doesn't do a bunch of things (half of which it does do, he just doesn't know any better) or because he used it incorrectly, got a wrong conclusion, and decided that means it's a bunch of bunk. I don't want him to gush about how smart the opener strategy is, I just want him to stop grousing about how a "real" team builds around 5 horses who throw 7 innings a game 30+ times a season when that doesn't happen anymore (and hasn't happened for years). I don't care if he doesn't laud the way modern data collection has made the shift-happy defence a batter-by-batter occurrence, I just care that he stops "well why don't they just hit it the other way?" crap every time a big shift comes up because *gasp* if that guy could "just hit it the other way" there would be no shift in the first place. I want him to recognize the faults in pitcher wins or RBI and stop leaning on them as high-value stats. I don't care if he does or doesn't replace either with a newer stat as his go-to analysis touchstone, I just don't want to hear "the point of baseball is to win games by scoring runs, so I'm gonna take the guys on my team who win a lot and drive in a lot of runs" anymore.

If you can't keep up with the progress train, you need to get off at the next station. Buck was, once upon a time, a great part of those TSN booths with him and Dan. He even had some value when he first came back to Sportsnet after his managing stint. But it's clear he's no longer familiar enough with evolution of the game of baseball or its audience to be a valuable insight for viewers. As much as people claim "institution" with broadcasters, every one has a shelf life. And that should be a point before they start becoming parodies of themselves or depressing shadows of what they once were. I know Jerry Howarth retired in large part for health reasons, but he at least also had the good sense to get out while he was still a solid and beloved broadcaster. His legacy won't be tarnished by a decrepit phase where he gets all the names wrong, can't follow the game, or rambles about things he clearly doesn't understand.
 

The Nemesis

Semper Tyrannus
Apr 11, 2005
88,326
31,699
Langley, BC
Dwight Smith just needed a chance... to prove that he's a sub-replacement offensive player who plays garbage D and is worth nearly -1 fWAR.

Remember when people were angsting about letting him go for pool money?
 
  • Like
Reactions: kb

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad