WC: 2019 - Team Russia

[Chapin Landvogt]

Every single team that has a player there pays that player a LOT of money, so your point is understood, but quite weak. No local league should be able to hurt international competition and it should be codified and binding.

Well, in Provorov's case, I don't think it's the Flyers telling him not to play, but rather him reasonably deciding not to play until he has his next contract in the bag.

The point I was making above was more to point out that it would be logical that the Flyers are in no rush to conclude a contract ASAP (if he'd even be requesting that) just so that Provorov can quickly head over and join Team Russia.

In general, it seems like NHL teams only really make an effort to hold back a player from joining his national team if he has recently had an injury or got over one in the course of the season that they feel now requires time off.

 

[Atas2000]

Well, in Provorov's case, I don't think it's the Flyers telling him not to play, but rather him reasonably deciding not to play until he has his next contract in the bag.

That is perfectly okay. If the team drags out contract talks, so he can't play then it's different.

 

[RED ARMY EAST]

This is basically an A team for Russia, in relation to the Canadian team who can't get stars to commit to this tournament.
Russia favoured for sure.

 

[Wings4Life]

This is basically an A team for Russia, in relation to the Canadian team who can't get stars to commit to this tournament.
Russia favoured for sure.

Still lots of big guns missing for Russia, including Tarasenko, Panarin, Provorov, Bobrovsky, etc.

The USA is also bringing a team of similar caliber.

 

[Planet Hockey]

That is perfectly okay. If the team drags out contract talks, so he can't play then it's different.

I saw a beat report out of Philly today which implies that Provorov will be going. Is there a contradictory story in this thread that I missed?

Several Philadelphia Flyers Confirmed for 2019 IIHF World Championships

 

[Atas2000]

I saw a beat report out of Philly today which implies that Provorov will be going. Is there a contradictory story in this thread that I missed?

Several Philadelphia Flyers Confirmed for 2019 IIHF World Championships

In your link the story is exactly what we have in this thread. He is expected to come if and when he signs the contract. I just fear the Flyers could drag this out just a couple of days to secure their asset from risk of injury or whatever makes them happy. There are only a few days left until the start of the tournament.

Also there is solid radio silence from all parties and it's hard to decode what's going on right now.

 

[IceHockey19]

Vasilevsky made new mask for championship. Looks good. Way much better than standard "Red machine" mask

 

[IceHockey19]

I wish their return to jersey with cyrillic sign РОССИЯ (RUSSIA) on the chest and add something blue to jersey. Sholders or something...
Current jersey IMO looks bad. More like training jersey.

Goal horn song "Dorogoi dlinnoyu" or " Those were the day my friend" could be change to some rock music.
IDK may be "Gorky Park - Moscow Calling" or something else.

Small things that I wish...

 

[Atas2000]

I wish their return to jersey with cyrillic sign РОССИЯ (RUSSIA) on the chest and add something blue to jersey. Sholders or something...
Current jersey IMO looks bad. More like training jersey.

Goal horn song "Dorogoi dlinnoyu" or " Those were the day my friend" could be change to some rock music.
IDK may be "Gorky Park - Moscow Calling" or something else.

Small things that I wish...

Everything but the nameplates should be in cyrillic.

But no blue please. It looks awful.

Music taste is a rare thing. I have no idea who decides on the goal songs, but it's good enough the players don't From knowing what they are listening to in the locker room, everything is better than their choices.

 

[AB13]

This is basically an A team for Russia, in relation to the Canadian team who can't get stars to commit to this tournament.
Russia favoured for sure.

Sweden have seemingly an even stronger team than Russia, Sweden look to have by far the best defense and depth in the tournament, and two great goalies. Considering Sweden have won the last two golds, they should be favored, I think,

 

[Atas2000]

Sweden have seemingly an even stronger team than Russia, Sweden look to have by far the best defense and depth in the tournament, and two great goalies. Considering Sweden have won the last two golds, they should be favored, I think,

This is bold considering what the US roster looks like by now. Okay Sweden got Henrik to close it's biggest hole, but otherwise their roster is not that outworldish.

 

[AB13]

This is bold considering what the US roster looks like by now. Okay Sweden got Henrik to close it's biggest hole, but otherwise their roster is not that outworldish.

The Swedish defensemen are the best in the tournament by a mile, and they have huge amounts of offensive depth. Ricard Grönborg is also a great coach who knows how to win the worlds, many swedish players in the playoffs have stated that they would like to come help Sweden win a historic third gold if they are knocked out in round 2.

While USA and Russia have more high end talent up front, Sweden have a higher number of players who can produce both offensively and defensively.

 

[Atas2000]

The Swedish defensemen are the best in the tournament by a mile, and they have huge amounts of offensive depth. Ricard Grönborg is also a great coach who knows how to win the worlds, many swedish players in the playoffs have stated that they would like to come help Sweden win a historic third gold if they are knocked out in round 2.

While USA and Russia have more high end talent up front, Sweden have a higher number of players who can produce both offensively and defensively.

3. Erik Gustafsson (D) Chicago Blackhawks 79 17 43 60 0.76 34 -6
6. Mattias Ekholm (D) Nashville Predato 80 8 36 44 0.55 47 27
7. Oliver Ekman Larsson (D) Arizona Coyotes 81 14 30 44 0.54 52 -16
18. Adam Larsson (D) Edmonton Oilers 82 3 17 20 0.24 44 -28
17. Robert Hägg (D) Philadelphia Flyers 82 5 15 20 0.24 63 -3
14. Marcus Pettersson (D) Pittsburgh 84 2 23 25 0.30 66 17

If that is Sweden's D(taken from the Sweden thread), then you need to shake of that bias. It's not bad, but it's far from what you claim it to be, "the best in the tournament by a mile".

The hope for some reinforcements after the 2nd round in the NHL is fine, but other teams would get them too eventually and those reinforcements are not certain at this point.

Also Markström is not that great 2nd goalie you are talking about either.

And forwards for all the greatness of Pettersson look bleak compared to US and Russia.

 

[filinski77]

Just saw that Kovalchuk was named the captain. This puzzles me (as a Canadian, and a bit of a biased Caps fan).

Ovechkin is (arguable, but pretty much is) the best Russian player of all time, and a successful NHL captain. Why wouldn’t he be the captain? I know I’m probably missing som kind of information about the relationship in the country there

 

[Kshahdoo]

Just saw that Kovalchuk was named the captain. This puzzles me (as a Canadian, and a bit of a biased Caps fan).

Ovechkin is (arguable, but pretty much is) the best Russian player of all time, and a successful NHL captain. Why wouldn’t he be the captain? I know I’m probably missing som kind of information about the relationship in the country there

That's for Euro Tour, and Ovi won't play at it. And Kovy is the oldest on the team and has good relationships with everybody.

As to roster, Ovi, Kuznetsov, Orlov and Zaitsev won't play at Euro Tour. Malkin, Kucherov, Gusev, Dadonov will.

 

[AB13]

If that is Sweden's D(taken from the Sweden thread), then you need to shake of that bias. It's not bad, but it's far from what you claim it to be, "the best in the tournament by a mile".

The hope for some reinforcements after the 2nd round in the NHL is fine, but other teams would get them too eventually and those reinforcements are not certain at this point.

Also Markström is not that great 2nd goalie you are talking about either.

And forwards for all the greatness of Pettersson look bleak compared to US and Russia.

It is not a bias, name me one defensive core that even comes close. Markström was the player of the season for the Canucks and had a standout year, and the forward depth is the best in the tournament after possibly Russia. Lindholm, Nylander, Peterson and Hornqvist should be able to put up great numbers too.

Sergachev and Orlov are the only Russian defensemen that would make it on to the Sweden roster, and while USA has a decent D core, both their defense and goalies are much worse than the Swedes. Their forwards are great though, and you could say Russia, Sweden and USA can be the three favorites at the moment.

This will be a stacked and exiting tournament, more star studded and fun to watch than the NHL playoffs in my eyes

 

[Atas2000]

It is not a bias, name me one defensive core that even comes close. Markström was the player of the season for the Canucks and had a standout year, and the forward depth is the best in the tournament after possibly Russia. Lindholm, Nylander, Peterson and Hornqvist should be able to put up great numbers too.

Sergachev and Orlov are the only Russian defensemen that would make it on to the Sweden roster, and while USA has a decent D core, both their defense and goalies are much worse than the Swedes. Their forwards are great though, and you could say Russia, Sweden and USA can be the three favorites at the moment.

This will be a stacked and exiting tournament, more star studded and fun to watch than the NHL playoffs in my eyes

Okay, lets make a tit for tat...

Gustafsson = Sergachyov (now maybe, going forward Sergachyov is a much bigger talent)
OEL = Provorov
Ekholm slightly better than Orlov
Adam Larsson < Zaytsev (and let's not talk about Larsson's non-existent offence. Zaytsev actually can play offence, he's just used dieffrently with the Leafs)
Hägg is in that Nesterov tier, Kiselevich might be better.
Pettersson might be better than the rest of Russia's defencemen, but if Zadorov joins he will dwarf the likes od Larsson easily and Zadorov - Gavrikov is a much better 3rd pairing than what Sweden has.

Where is that "mile"? You are talikng like Hedman - Stralman is your 1st pairing. Yes, Sweden has one of the best if not the best D in the world on principle, but they aren't there right now.

If Sweden gets reinforced after the 2nd round, then we might look at it again, but I doubt there will be a mile to behold, also with Russia's and US possible reinforcements.

Now let's do the O.

Pettersson might be the next great superstar, but right now he is not in the Kucherov, Malkin, Ovechkin tier yet.
Next tier for Sweden are Lindholm and Nylander. I give you Kuznetsov and Kaprizov.
Hornqvist = Dadonov
And then there is Gusev and possibly an addition of Panarin and/or Tarasenko/Radulov.

Sweden needs two full superstar lines to keep up with Russia.

 

[AB13]

Okay, lets make a tit for tat...

Gustafsson = Sergachyov (now maybe, going forward Sergachyov is a much bigger talent)
OEL = Provorov
Ekholm slightly better than Orlov
Adam Larsson < Zaytsev (and let's not talk about Larsson's non-existent offence. Zaytsev actually can play offence, he's just used dieffrently with the Leafs)
Hägg is in that Nesterov tier, Kiselevich might be better.
Pettersson might be better than the rest of Russia's defencemen, but if Zadorov joins he will dwarf the likes od Larsson easily and Zadorov - Gavrikov is a much better 3rd pairing than what Sweden has.

Where is that "mile"? You are talikng like Hedman - Stralman is your 1st pairing. Yes, Sweden has one of the best if not the best D in the world on principle, but they aren't there right now.

If Sweden gets reinforced after the 2nd round, then we might look at it again, but I doubt there will be a mile to behold, also with Russia's and US possible reinforcements.

Now let's do the O.

Pettersson might be the next great superstar, but right now he is not in the Kucherov, Malkin, Ovechkin tier yet.
Next tier for Sweden are Lindholm and Nylander. I give you Kuznetsov and Kaprizov.
Hornqvist = Dadonov
And then there is Gusev and possibly an addition of Panarin and/or Tarasenko/Radulov.

Sweden needs two full superstar lines to keep up with Russia.

I don't agree with your defensive rankings at all, but lets let the tournament decide. You really are underrating the Swedish players, do you forget that defensemen need to be able to play defense? This is what I think

OEL is probably a top 5 dman in the world and much better than Provorov, stop being biased
Adam Larsson is better than Zaitzev, Larsson can actually play defense and usually produces solid offensive numbers internationally
Hägg is better than Nesterov and Kislevich without a doubt
Sweden has a better third pairing than Zadorov- Gavrikov. Whether it be Pettersson - Hägg, Hägg - Larsson or Pettersson - Larsson.

Nylander, Bratt and Lindholm are in my eyes slightly ahead of Kaprisov, and Hornqvist is ahead of Dadonov, but yes, Russia has a stronger offense and possibly a stronger team on paper. I think that the Swedish team having a brilliant coach and experience of winning it two years in a row gives Sweden the edge on Russia. Russia have a great chance of winning, and maybe I am being unconsciously biased, but this is at least how I see it. As I said, we will see in may.

 

[Atas2000]

I don't agree with your defensive rankings at all, but lets let the tournament decide. You really are underrating the Swedish players, do you forget that defensemen need to be able to play defense? This is what I think

OEL is probably a top 5 dman in the world and much better than Provorov, stop being biased
Adam Larsson is better than Zaitzev, Larsson can actually play defense and usually produces solid offensive numbers internationally
Hägg is better than Nesterov and Kislevich without a doubt
Sweden has a better third pairing than Zadorov- Gavrikov. Whether it be Pettersson - Hägg, Hägg - Larsson or Pettersson - Larsson.

Nylander, Bratt and Lindholm are in my eyes slightly ahead of Kaprisov, and Hornqvist is ahead of Dadonov, but yes, Russia has a stronger offense and possibly a stronger team on paper. I think that the Swedish team having a brilliant coach and experience of winning it two years in a row gives Sweden the edge on Russia. Russia have a great chance of winning, and maybe I am being unconsciously biased, but this is at least how I see it. As I said, we will see in may.

We could actually stop the discussion at the point where you claim OEL to be top 5 in the whole huge world. That's what I call bias.

Yeah, defencemen should play defence and Russia has trouble with offensively gifted defencemen, but if you think they can't play defence, then see above - bias.

The fact that Larsson was traded for a good player does not make him better.

Hägg is a 3rd pairing guy with no huge improvement in sight. Just the tier Nesterov would be in.

Your 3rd pairing comparison is awful too.

Again, I am aware that is by far not the best D Sweden can ice, but it is what it is for now and it's on the other hand very close to the best D Russia has to offer.

Hornqvist 0.54 ppg vs. Dadonov 0.85 ppg. Buchnevich has a higher ppg than Hornqvist and he did not make the russian roster.

Jesper Bratt is better than the KHL's best goal scorer? I doubt that. I understand you might not know much about Kaprizov, but then hear it here first, he is a very gifted player.

I don't understand what the experience of winning a short tournament is if your team consists of different players every year. And I don't think Grönborg is a bad coach, but brilliant?

That said, in those tournaments with elimination games everything can happen and it would be a huge mistake to discard any of the teams as weak on paper or on the ice.

 

[Retroglyphs]

Sweden have seemingly an even stronger team than Russia, Sweden look to have by far the best defense and depth in the tournament, and two great goalies. Considering Sweden have won the last two golds, they should be favored, I think,

How so, I wonder?
Swedens defense might be better, but in the offense only Pettersson and Lindholm can (partly) keep up with Russia's top 7 guys . In goal Russia is on par.

 

[Retroglyphs]

Nylander, Bratt and Lindholm are in my eyes slightly ahead of Kaprizov, and Hornqvist is ahead of Dadonov.

No way is Bratt better than Kaprizov. Also, what has he achieved in his career in comparison to Kaprizov?
Same goes for Hornqvist, who is a beast on the ice & a player I'd definitely want to have on my team... but he doesn't even remotely possess Dadonov's offensive skillset.

 

[Eye of Ra]

How so, I wonder?
Swedens defense might be better, but in the offense only Pettersson and Lindholm can (partly) keep up with Russia's top 7 guys . In goal Russia is on par.

Nylander? he had two straight 61 point season befor this season. he is on the same level as dadonov imo.

 

[Khokhlach86]

today lines vs Sweden

Vasilevsky

Sergachev-Nesterov
Khafizullin-Zub
Kiselevich-Yelesin
Blazhievsky

Gusev-Malkin-Kucherov
Grigorenko-Anisimov-Kaprizov
Barabanov-Kadeykin-Dadonov
Kovalchuk-Andronov-Plotnikov
Mikheyev

 

[AB13]

We could actually stop the discussion at the point where you claim OEL to be top 5 in the whole huge world. That's what I call bias.

The Russia - Sweden matchup reminds me of the Penguins - Islanders matchup, where Russia has much more skill and a stronger team on paper, but Sweden have a better defense, more depth and a better coach who fits everyone into his defensively solid system and style of play

Yeah, defencemen should play defence and Russia has trouble with offensively gifted defencemen, but if you think they can't play defence, then see above - bias.

The fact that Larsson was traded for a good player does not make him better.

Hägg is a 3rd pairing guy with no huge improvement in sight. Just the tier Nesterov would be in.

Your 3rd pairing comparison is awful too.

Again, I am aware that is by far not the best D Sweden can ice, but it is what it is for now and it's on the other hand very close to the best D Russia has to offer.

Hornqvist 0.54 ppg vs. Dadonov 0.85 ppg. Buchnevich has a higher ppg than Hornqvist and he did not make the russian roster.

Jesper Bratt is better than the KHL's best goal scorer? I doubt that. I understand you might not know much about Kaprizov, but then hear it here first, he is a very gifted player.

I don't understand what the experience of winning a short tournament is if your team consists of different players every year. And I don't think Grönborg is a bad coach, but brilliant?

That said, in those tournaments with elimination games everything can happen and it would be a huge mistake to discard any of the teams as weak on paper or on the ice.

Everything is not about points, is it? Hörnqvist is one of the best players in the world in front of the keeper, always setting scenes and being a great team player, while working much harder defensively than Hörnqvist. None of our third pairings are awful, they are the 2 best in the tournament.

Larsson is a good two way defenseman who's had a bad year.

Hägg is better than Nesterov at everything, there is not a single thing in the game that Nesterov does better than Hägg.

Name me 5 defensemen better than Ekman Larsson if I am wrong.

 

[AB13]

How so, I wonder?
Swedens defense might be better, but in the offense only Pettersson and Lindholm can (partly) keep up with Russia's top 7 guys . In goal Russia is on par.

I think Sweden look stronger because of the defense being better, the amount of forwards who can score being higher, and the coach being much better.