2019 Stanley Cup Playoffs Discussion Thread

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Hasek didn't hit his stride in the NHL until he was 27-28 years old, after a couple sub .900 seasons...

And in those seasons, Curtis Joseph led the league with a .911 sv%. Come on, that was a completely different era. You can't compare the two like you're trying to do. The early 90s were still run and gun like the 80s.

Also, Petr Mrazek is not Dominik Hasek. What made Hasek so good is that he was CONSISTENT with his unorthodox style. That it looked weird and wrong, but he always kept the puck out of the net. Petr has not done that. He does not get that benefit of the doubt.

 

[Oddbob]

After Mrazek wins the Stanley cup what you gon' say then huh boi?

Mrazek winning the Cup will take his team continuing to score a boatload of goals when he is OFF his game, which is a lot more than he is on. Funny how when he plays well for a small stretch, we have to constantly hear, how "oh we should have kept him". What about the other 65% of games that he sucks!

When he blows a series for Carolina, then what will we hear?

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Mrazek winning the Cup will take his team continuing to score a boatload of goals when he is OFF his game, which is a lot more than he is on. Funny how when he plays well for a small stretch, we have to constantly hear, how "oh we should have kept him". What about the other 65% of games that he sucks!

When he blows a series for Carolina, then what will we hear?

Sounds like that's what you are hoping for? So you can be "right"

 

[TCNorthstars]

When he blows a series for Carolina, then what will we hear?

Wasn't his fault! Defense in front of him blows! It is all Ken Hollands fault!!!

 

[TCNorthstars]

Sounds like that's what you are hoping for? So you can be "right"

Sounds like you are hoping he wins. So you can be "right."

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Sounds like that's what you are hoping for? So you can be "right"

No... it's just the thing that has the highest likelihood of happening. We have seen this story with Petr before. He's hot and he's cold. (He's also yes then he's no) It's not a matter of if he's going to come back to Earth, but when. He isn't like Lehner who had a material change in his mental well-being that has led to him hitting the next level.

I'm not hoping for anything for these playoffs. Detroit isn't in it and there is no team left in it that I care about one iota. I probably want San Jose to win so we can get another pick.

Truly, it would be cool for Mrazek if he were to win. Wouldn't change my feeling on whether we should have kept him in 2017 at all. Because hockey is a team sport and he was not going to do that for Detroit. They didn't have a team worth a damn when he was here, so why are you banging the drum so hard for having kept him over Howard? I mean, if a team is planning to tank and develop players... you don't want the hot and cold goalie who will win you games you probably should have lost. If Mrazek were still in Detroit and he stole some February and March games, the board would have blown up on him for playing well (it sure did on Bernier and Howard this year) Detroit wanted stability in net. They got it with Jimmy. Mrazek may even be a better goalie than Jimmy (they're pretty close to equals right now), but he's also far more variable. They wanted to limit the variables on the roster as they're going to have a ton of them in prospects in the next couple years.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

No... it's just the thing that has the highest likelihood of happening. We have seen this story with Petr before. He's hot and he's cold. (He's also yes then he's no) It's not a matter of if he's going to come back to Earth, but when. He isn't like Lehner who had a material change in his mental well-being that has led to him hitting the next level.

I'm not hoping for anything for these playoffs. Detroit isn't in it and there is no team left in it that I care about one iota. I probably want San Jose to win so we can get another pick.

Truly, it would be cool for Mrazek if he were to win. Wouldn't change my feeling on whether we should have kept him in 2017 at all. Because hockey is a team sport and he was not going to do that for Detroit. They didn't have a team worth a damn when he was here, so why are you banging the drum so hard for having kept him over Howard? I mean, if a team is planning to tank and develop players... you don't want the hot and cold goalie who will win you games you probably should have lost. If Mrazek were still in Detroit and he stole some February and March games, the board would have blown up on him for playing well (it sure did on Bernier and Howard this year) Detroit wanted stability in net. They got it with Jimmy. Mrazek may even be a better goalie than Jimmy (they're pretty close to equals right now), but he's also far more variable. They wanted to limit the variables on the roster as they're going to have a ton of them in prospects in the next couple years.

The past doesn't equal the future. He is playing great. Hopefully he wins a cup and proves Holland HSJ and all his millions of haters wrong. And we are rebuilding so why keep the older injury prone goalie? Oh yeah because Holland likes his PERSONALITY better....

 

[plymouthmi]

Niemi won with a superstar lineup. Mrazek is the reason they would win this year. And die on this hill all you want. Wouldn't be the first time.....

I think you are overstating just a tad with the bolded.

The past doesn't equal the future. He is playing great. Hopefully he wins a cup and proves Holland HSJ and all his millions of haters wrong. And we are rebuilding so why keep the older injury prone goalie? Oh yeah because Holland likes his PERSONALITY better....

There is a lot of ground between being a "hater" (how I loathe that term!) and being fine with the fact that the Red Wings traded him.

I for one was okay with that trade and still will be if he wins the Cup. Him winning the Cup will also not prove that he can be a consistent starter long term.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

The past doesn't equal the future. He is playing great. Hopefully he wins a cup and proves Holland HSJ and all his millions of haters wrong. And we are rebuilding so why keep the older injury prone goalie? Oh yeah because Holland likes his PERSONALITY better....

Proves them wrong about what? When they traded him, he was an AHL caliber goalie. Good on him for re-claiming some of his fire... but he was terrible in Detroit before they traded him and was terrible in Philadelphia after they traded him.

You keep Howard over Mrazek for exactly that purpose. Mrazek clearly pouted when they didn't trade Howard and when things started going poorly for him in Detroit. These weren't "hit job" articles by HSJ and co (which is the most overblown nonsense I've ever heard), but reports that Craig Custance was getting from sources external of the Detroit Red Wings. Mrazek's attitude in 2017 was the ****s and I don't want a goalie who will pout and sour and blame everyone else on my team I'm trying to build younger. I don't care if he's 23 and had a good season or two. If he matured by the process and is better in Carolina for it, ok. But that doesn't make it a bad move for us to get rid of him.

 

[avssuc]

'Collective reality' doesn't apply when you're talking about the top 5 dmen in the league. Predicting the career trajectory of a top 5 dman (and one-time undisputed #1 dman) based on the top 210 dmen in a given season is useless. That would be most of the dmen in the league, wouldn't it? 31 teams x 7 dmen equals 217 players. I don't think data on the #7 dman of the worst team in the league is particularly relevant to Karlsson.

Karlsson is clearly playing injured right now (groin or hamstring by the looks of things) and his skating is severely affected, and yet up until yesterday was leading all dmen in playoff scoring (1 point back of his partner Burns now). Players of that skill level adapt when circumstances change. It's why Lidstrom was able to remain effective despite losing a step in his 'old age', and why Datsyuk was still able to make Abdelkader a 20-goal scorer with 0 tendons in his ankle. An average player gets hit with an injury that slows him down, or loses some skating due to age, then it really affects them because the margins are that tight when you're an average player. Players at Karlsson's level have a lot more wiggle room to adapt because of the large skill gap between them and others.

The only thing to worry about with signing Karlsson is a career-ending injury, but that's a risk with any player.

I'm not saying he won't, I'm just saying that the risk is greater than it once was.

For examples against, I'd ask what happened to Drew Doughty (someone you mentioned the Leafs should shop Matthews for)? Was he worth his $11 million hit last year at 29 years old? How might it look at 33, 34, or 35? What about Shea Weber and PK Subban in 18-19? How about Kevin Shattenkirk, Suter, or Yandle? Were any of them top 5 this year? Did they sniff top 10? Minus Suter and Yandle, one could make an arguement that most of those guys were top 5 D men at some point, all were top 10 IMO.

Love it or hate it, here's the CF% for this year:

EK is pretty much tops, so it supports your opinion, I just don't like the odds of sustainment coupled with the Wings current roster strength. That said, I've been wrong plenty in the past. If he's signed, I desperately hope I'm wrong. Maybe if the roster were minus Abdelkader and Neilsen, I'd be more fond of the idea.

How much should the toxic cap space (Abby, Neilsen, Weiss, Ouellte, LTIR) overage) influence this sort of decision?

Whatever happens, in Yzerman I trust.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

I think you are overstating just a tad with the bolded.


There is a lot of ground between being a "hater" (how I loathe that term!) and being fine with the fact that the Red Wings traded him.

I for one was okay with that trade and still will be if he wins the Cup. Him winning the Cup will also not prove that he can be a consistent starter long term.

How many SO's does he have in these playoffs?

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Proves them wrong about what? When they traded him, he was an AHL caliber goalie. Good on him for re-claiming some of his fire... but he was terrible in Detroit before they traded him and was terrible in Philadelphia after they traded him.

You keep Howard over Mrazek for exactly that purpose. Mrazek clearly pouted when they didn't trade Howard and when things started going poorly for him in Detroit. These weren't "hit job" articles by HSJ and co (which is the most overblown nonsense I've ever heard), but reports that Craig Custance was getting from sources external of the Detroit Red Wings. Mrazek's attitude in 2017 was the ****s and I don't want a goalie who will pout and sour and blame everyone else on my team I'm trying to build younger. I don't care if he's 23 and had a good season or two. If he matured by the process and is better in Carolina for it, ok. But that doesn't make it a bad move for us to get rid of him.

Enjoy the lottery with Howard.

 

[plymouthmi]

How many SO's does he have in these playoffs?

Two.

Are we having a trivia contest now or something? I'll go next. How many goals did he allow in Game 5 of the Washington series?

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Two.

Are we having a trivia contest now or something? I'll go next. How many goals did he allow in Game 5 of the Washington series?

Enough to win the series.

 

[plymouthmi]

Enough to win the series.

So we're not just asking each other random trivia questions?

I'm not sure there's much point in my engaging you any further on this, but why exactly did you ask me how many shutouts he had? What does that have to do with the fact that I don't think Mrazek is the main reason the Canes are winning so far or that I do not hate him and am not upset that the Red Wings traded him.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

He won a single playoff series and now he’s the 2nd coming

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

He won a single playoff series and now he’s the 2nd coming

You don't need to be the "2nd coming" to he better than Howard. Well maybe in the real world but not here anyway...

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

So we're not just asking each other random trivia questions?

I'm not sure there's much point in my engaging you any further on this, but why exactly did you ask me how many shutouts he had? What does that have to do with the fact that I don't think Mrazek is the main reason the Canes are winning so far or that I do not hate him and am not upset that the Red Wings traded him.

The wings were wrong trading him and keeping Howard. Howard blew a 3-1 in the 2nd round. That's his best playoff performance.... that's with Z , Datsyuk and Lidstrom btw

 

[plymouthmi]

The wings were wrong trading him and keeping Howard. Howard blew a 3-1 in the 2nd round. That's his best playoff performance.... that's with Z , Datsyuk and Lidstrom btw

Okay well we just disagree about that trade. I don't have much of a problem with it; I don't think Mrazek was winning or solidifying into a starter with the Red Wings. I also think you were way too hyperbolic in your post that I initially responded to, that's the only reason I responded.

I have nothing against Mrazek and I hope he does succeed.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Okay well we just disagree about that trade. I don't have much of a problem with it; I don't think Mrazek was winning or solidifying into a starter with the Red Wings. I also think you were way too hyperbolic in your post that I initially responded to, that's the only reason I responded.

I have nothing against Mrazek and I hope he does succeed.

He was given up on too early. Howard is old and his best job ever was blowing a 3-1 lead in the second round to the Blackhawks with three HOFers on the roster. We are losing with Howard he doesn't make us any better you might as well go with the younger goalie with no injury history...

 

[Red Stanley]

I believe it was a distinct kicking motion in order to try to score a goal, but not a distinct kicking motion toward the goal.

To me if it looks like a player kicked a puck to try to score a goal, whether off someone's pads or skates, and/or from behind the net, then the goal should be disallowed. I think the refs just need to make a judgement call based on perceived intent of the kick.

A goal redirected in off a skate is initiated with a shot. With a kicked goal, the foot initiated the attempt and that's something that belongs in a different sport to me.

But, I guess the NHL should update the rule if they want to nullify those types of goals.

They should get rid of the rule altogether. Either allow all or none. These refs are obviously terrible at making judgement calls, so remove as much of that from them as possible. Simplify the rule book. I've watched a lot of those "distinct kicking motion" rulings and they appear to be completely arbitrary based on the individual ref making the determination. That's a terrible way to officiate imo. Last night's call was one of the more glaring examples of it. Intent to score? A far more likely thought process was the player was trying to redirect the puck back toward his stick and regain control of it than bank it off the goalie's pads into the net billiards style. I'm sure glad NHL refs can read minds, though.

 

[Goalie guy]

Proves them wrong about what? When they traded him, he was an AHL caliber goalie. Good on him for re-claiming some of his fire... but he was terrible in Detroit before they traded him and was terrible in Philadelphia after they traded him.

You keep Howard over Mrazek for exactly that purpose. Mrazek clearly pouted when they didn't trade Howard and when things started going poorly for him in Detroit. These weren't "hit job" articles by HSJ and co (which is the most overblown nonsense I've ever heard), but reports that Craig Custance was getting from sources external of the Detroit Red Wings. Mrazek's attitude in 2017 was the ****s and I don't want a goalie who will pout and sour and blame everyone else on my team I'm trying to build younger. I don't care if he's 23 and had a good season or two. If he matured by the process and is better in Carolina for it, ok. But that doesn't make it a bad move for us to get rid of him.

His problems came with Holland LONG before any trade talk of Howard! He called out how the team was being built or rather lack there of, and said the locker room did not like Blash that's where it started. He came out and said what him and other young players on the team felt. He never not one time put blame on his team, where did that come from? He might still flop on the Cains but we don't know yet right? People bring up his price tag JB is not better than him and got 3.5. But I was out of town the last few days did he get hurt in the last game?

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

He was given up on too early. Howard is old and his best job ever was blowing a 3-1 lead in the second round to the Blackhawks with three HOFers on the roster. We are losing with Howard he doesn't make us any better you might as well go with the younger goalie with no injury history...

Howard literally played better against Chicago than Mrazek did against the Capitals. Statistically superior. And the series winning goal? Kronwall screened the ever loving hell out of him and even re-directed it. I love that Mrazek is somehow "good and we shouldn't move on from him" for 19 goals in 7 games but Howard is a choke artist who cost the team the series with 16 in 7. And also... who's the third HoFer? Zetterberg, Datsyuk, ?. Our defense in that series was

Kronner
Ericsson
Kindl
KFQ
Smith
DDK
Lashoff

And no. Mrazek's play was trending downwards from late 15-16 on. He wasn't improving in Detroit and he was sour. He wasn't worth a 4M RFA tender nor the likely raise he'd be looking for the year after the tender ran out.

If I'm aiming for rebuilding and I know that the goalie I'm picking won't be here when I'm good again, I'd go with the guy who gives me more stability. The guy I know what I can count on every year. If that means an injury, it means an injury. I'm planning to suck and I'm planning to replace my goalie eventually because neither option is a special player. Let me keep the guy who would actively hurt me to deal (in 17, you'd be packaging a pick with and/or taking a cap dump back to get rid of Howard) and deal the guy who can get me an asset. The Wings got something for Mrazek. Give me the guy who when he struggled worked with coaches and showed marked improvement over the guy who pissed and moaned and was circling the drain on his way out.

 

[Henkka]

Yep. Mrazek did hurt something. Tough to say is it long or short-term injury. McElhinney was also good.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

His problems came with Holland LONG before any trade talk of Howard! He called out how the team was being built or rather lack there of, and said the locker room did not like Blash that's where it started. He came out and said what him and other young players on the team felt. He never not one time put blame on his team, where did that come from? He might still flop on the Cains but we don't know yet right? People bring up his price tag JB is not better than him and got 3.5. But I was out of town the last few days did he get hurt in the last game?

He did. groin, I think.

And even if that's the case... If you, as a rookie goalie, feel it is your place to do that... you need to have your play back it up. And for his first season and change, he did. Once he didn't, the Wings moved on. If you're going to criticize the roster building, you have to back it up with your play. From late season 15-16 on, he didn't. He was given the ball to run with and he fumbled it.