2019 Entry Draft Thread: Part III

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Habs Halifax

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Jul 11, 2016
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Whens the last time a center slid though?

- Forsberg in 2012
- Grigorenko in 2012
- Veleno in 2018

You are right, it don't happen that often but a lot has to do with trends. It they have stalled development or there is negativity surrounding them for whatever reasons, players do slip from time to time.
 

Janne Niinimaa

"Character"
Sep 28, 2017
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I agree that Dach and Kotka are similar, but there's no way Dach has a better shot than Kotkaniemi. Kotkas shooting potential is through the roof, he can be a shooting threat from anywhere, Dach is adequate. I also think Kotka has quite the physical game.
Dach has a much better release than Kotkaniemi. Kotkaniemi seems to fumble the puck a lot when in a position to shoot.

On the physicality part, I said they lack physical play for their size. Neither are soft players, they can just play a bit more physical.
 

Janne Niinimaa

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- Forsberg in 2012
- Grigorenko in 2012
- Veleno in 2018

You are right, it don't happen that often but a lot has to do with trends. It they have stalled development or there is negativity surrounding them for whatever reasons, players do slip from time to time.
Forsberg became a full time winger, Grigorenko is useless and Veleno has had a very good start to the season and was a victim of over scouting. I still had him in my top 15 but he is a rare case.
 

Mrb1p

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- Forsberg in 2012
- Grigorenko in 2012
- Veleno in 2018

You are right, it don't happen that often but a lot has to do with trends. It they have stalled development or there is negativity surrounding them for whatever reasons, players do slip from time to time.
Grigo began to fall way before the draft and that was on his performance.
Same with Veleno.

Forsberg was seen as a winger.
 

Mrb1p

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Dach has a much better release than Kotkaniemi. Kotkaniemi seems to fumble the puck a lot when in a position to shoot.

On the physicality part, I said they lack physical play for their size. Neither are soft players, they can just play a bit more physical.
I don't agree. I know some of Kotkaniemis shot are painfully slow to get off, but he's also shown the ability to rip on really fast, I just think it's a habit thing, he'll get used to the speed of the game. He also fumbles the puck a lot, wether thats on his stick, I don't know.
 

Janne Niinimaa

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I don't agree. I know some of Kotkaniemis shot are painfully slow to get off, but he's also shown the ability to rip on really fast, I just think it's a habit thing, he'll get used to the speed of the game. He also fumbles the puck a lot, wether thats on his stick, I don't know.
He definitely has the capability to rip the shot perfectly. He just doesn't do it regularly. Its a skill he can improve. But at this point in their development, I think Dach gets his shots off better than Kotkaniemi.

In both of their cases, its not a huge negative. Just aspects they can improve.
 

Habs Halifax

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My point is that maybe they dropped with good reason and that picking "the faller" isn't necessarily the best strategy. Granted I don't think anyone would regret picking Forsberg, but he didn't end up being a centre.

Well, if they dropped, it was for a reason (valid or not). Take Veleno for example
 

Frozenice

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Jan 1, 2010
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Well, if they dropped, it was for a reason (valid or not). Take Veleno for example
Why does it to have to be for a reason other then the scouts drafting the 5th or 6th overall finds another guy to be their guy or another player is a better fit for their organization.
 

Habs Halifax

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Why does it to have to be for a reason other then the scouts drafting the 5th or 6th overall finds another guy to be their guy or another player is a better fit for their organization.

When players slip, it's because of reasons. I recall Forsberg slipping cause he was considered not strong enough. Why did Veleno slip? If anybody is paying attention, his stats with Drummondville vs Saint John are night and day difference. I previously had goal scoring ability concerns. Something he has certainly addressed recently

The other factor is what each team draft board looks like. But for players to slip on several teams draft boards, there is likely a trend they are not happy about.
 

Lebowski

El Duderino
Dec 5, 2010
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Forsberg became a full time winger, Grigorenko is useless and Veleno has had a very good start to the season and was a victim of over scouting. I still had him in my top 15 but he is a rare case.

Grigorenko is currently over a PPG in the KHL and leads his team in scoring, on a team with Kaprizov who's considered one of the top prospects outside the NHL.

I think he could make an NHL comeback eventually.
 

covfefe

Zoltan Poszar's Burner
Feb 5, 2014
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How does he compare to Tyson Jost in your opinion?

Jost was more cerebral and relied on positioning, crafty stickwork, puckhandling down low, and IQ to dominate the BCHL. I was very high on him and still think he will be a solid top 6C, but he never dominated games the way Newhook has and his skating is nowhere near Newhook's . He also had significantly more team support in Penticton than Newhook does in Victoria.

Newhook is more forceful, aggressive/assertive and is amazing off the rush and in transition. He plays more of a power game and is very north-south. He plays a very similar style to Mackinnon, though he is obviously not at his level as a prospect.

People are probably looking at the numbers and thinking this kid isn't anything special. But scoring in the BCHL is down over the last few seasons; guys aren't putting up 100 point seasons anymore as tighter defensive systems have cropped up throughout the league. So, in my eyes, Jost's 100+ pt season will be roughly equivalent to an ~80 pt season from Newhook this year. Particularly considering his relative lack of team support.
 

covfefe

Zoltan Poszar's Burner
Feb 5, 2014
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I think Robertson could be gone in the top 10-15 picks, but we should absolutely be taking long looks at him. Very well-rounded player, love his size, skating, and IQ
 
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montreal

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what are the thoughts on Kelowna's Lassi Thomson, high 2nd rounder? I see that he's tied with Brook for the WHL lead in goals for defensemen, he's a late b-day so he'll just be a one and done in the dub.
 

covfefe

Zoltan Poszar's Burner
Feb 5, 2014
5,234
6,301
what are the thoughts on Kelowna's Lassi Thomson, high 2nd rounder? I see that he's tied with Brook for the WHL lead in goals for defensemen, he's a late b-day so he'll just be a one and done in the dub.

I don't think there's a chance he lasts to the 2nd, plays a similar game to Jokiharju. Great shot, loves to rush the puck, and a bit all over the place defensively.
 
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