NHL Entry Draft 2019 Entry Draft Discussion (part 3)

[OD99]

Half of our success stories wouldn't have made it to the NHL on other teams. Our lack of depth and accelerating draft picks into roles they can't handle does not make us a superior drafting organization.

I don't think that is quite true - I would say all of the overagers (I know that isn't the right term but what should we say instead? Guys in their 2nd or 3rd draft?) earned their shot at the NHL and did something with it.

Not stars but they would make it on lots of teams in the NHL - Boro included, lots of people like rough'n'tumble.

This won't be a quick fix anyway we slice it - next year will be bad and most likely the season after that but we do have some hope with our young players and if it takes 2 more years of being near the bottom so be it to get some more star players.

Anyone hoping for this to turn around in a season or 2 is going to be very disappointed.

 

[Masked]

Here is a 15 minute interview with Trent Mann post draft
https://www.tsn.ca/radio/ottawa-1200/mann-very-pleased-with-how-we-did-at-the-draft-1.1327057

I don't think he sounded very excited either, but at least he is excited for the 2020 draft

I'm only 5 minutes in but he sounds almost giddy so far.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Pinto

Thomson

Kaliyev

 

[Icelevel]

I’m happy to stay away from kaliyev actually. Would have been nice to get lavoie if sogaard could have been taken later (assuming they really wanted sogaard. Which is understandable if he immediately becomes our best goalie prospect)
I think I’m the end it went ok actually (again would have really liked to add one of the hyped scorers like lavoie but there’s time for that still)

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I’m happy to stay away from kaliyev actually. Would have been nice to get lavoie if sogaard could have been taken later (assuming they really wanted sogaard. Which is understandable if he immediately becomes our best goalie prospect)
I think I’m the end it went ok actually (again would have really liked to add one of the hyped scorers like lavoie but there’s time for that still)

I just threw him up there for a comparison ranking.. I would have take Lavoie over Kaliyev.. but If the Sens called Kaliyev at 19 I could definitely get behind it.
Thomson is going to have to prove it for me to warm up to that pick. Maybe at 32 ok,. but .. I personally do not think he's a first round talent and if he is its at the end of the 1st round. just my opinion.. and I am very likely wrong ... I could get behind a few picks there.. including Tomasino , Poulin, Lavoie, McMichael. I could even get behind big more stay at home D man Robertson.. I had Korczak and Thomson pretty close.

I like the Pinto pick. But I think they reached with who was left. Looking forward to see him at UND and to see how well and how quickly he adjusts. Another middle six, hard worker for the Sens though.. Guys like Lavoie and Kaliyev have that top 6 maybe top line upside because they have good size and they can score.

 

[aragorn]

Drafting by need is a horrible way to draft.

Being the smartest guy in the room worked in the 1990s....but we aren't in the 1990s anymore. Scouting and evaluation is much more developed now than ever before.

I'm guessing they picked the best players they thought were available on their lists at the time they picked them. It just so happens that some of those players happen to also play a position of need for the Sens, two birds with one stone, BPA & plays a position of need.

 

[Icelevel]

Don’t know if this has been posted already but the first guest is grant mccagg. Highly recommended listen. Good things to say about Thomson. And wondered why pinto was not ranked higher (not a lot of flaws in his game)

 

[aragorn]

Pinto

Thomson

Kaliyev

If the Sens can improve Pinto's skating as they did for Mark Stone another notch & he himself improves his puck skills over the next yr or two in school, IMO Pinto's scoring should improve by another notch because of those things. Those two things can be improved, but hockey sense & competitiveness not so much but luckily he already has those in spades. BTW why spades & not clubs?

 

[JungleBeat]

LA offered the Sens a 6th round pick to move down to 33. This team is just idiotic lmao.

 

[Brannstorm]

If the Sens can improve Pinto's skating as they did for Mark Stone another notch & he himself improves his puck skills over the next yr or two in school, IMO Pinto's scoring should improve by another notch because of those things. Those two things can be improved, but hockey sense & competitiveness not so much but luckily he already has those in spades. BTW why spades & not clubs?

"Paid back in spades. ... In contract bridge, as well as a number of other card games,spades are the highest-ranking of the four suits (clubs, diamonds, hearts, spades.) Thus a bid in spades outranks a bid in hearts." - Google.

I like Pinto, good interview I saw with him, seems humble,

 

[Ice-Tray]

I'm only 5 minutes in but he sounds almost giddy so far.

I guess maybe we all hear what we want, but I heard a guy that was happy with the picks they made, had solid explanations for why they were chosen, and explained pretty clearly what the main focus was for the Sens amateur scouting team.

Some folks may not like it, but at least we can all relax now that a major part of the plan going forward has been revealed. There is a plan, they are all in on it, understand it, and have been working towards it!

 

[JungleBeat]

Some folks may not like it, but at least we can all relax now that a major part of the plan going forward has been revealed. There is a plan, they are all in on it, understand it, and have been working towards it!

Dorion gives you a big high five.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Dorion gives you a big high five.

It was Trent Mann, and I like high fives, I’ll take it.

You can have all of the down-low-too-slows if you’d like?

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Just listened to that Mann interview, he clarified that Thomson was on loan to Kelowna so he can in fact play either WHL, Liiga or AHL. Also Guennette sounds like an impressive dude. I was exiceted about that pick and Mann gave me some more reason to think he could be our next great 7th rounder.

I'd personally say I prefer Thomson to go to Liiga. He said he has a top pairing role waiting for him. Kelowna would be a great place for him as well given they're hosting the memorial cup. 2020 will probably be a big year for him whichever way he goes.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

He was drafted in his 18 year old season, and then returned to Cape Breton after being drafted for his 19 year old season. He just played his 20 year old season out.

Drake Batherson was drafted in the June 2017 Entry draft, in the 4th round by the Senators, when he was 19 years old (Born April 27, 1998).

He was NOT drafted the year before (2016) when he was 18 years old, and meet the draft eligibility requirements.

The point is that a number of people seem to upset that Ottawa "wasted" (their words) two picks in this last draft, on over-agers, who has been through a draft (or two) before.

 

[SENATOR]

During the whole Ottawa Senators modern history, the Ottawa scouting staff and GMs did not produce any NHL players, playing in Ottawa uniform, drafting in the second round. Since we drafted Stanislav Neckar and then Mike Fisher. 28 years of nothingness. And to think that drafting off board with Pinto they found a gem, the odds are against it. Or to think Fermenton is the NHL caliber player. Our drafting was the worst in the league in the second round through out Sens modern history. That's why, every second round pick should be under microscope, because of the gigantic rate of failure. We should never ever trust our scouting department. We have to make sure, no more Pintos and more Kaliyevs in the future.

 

[Micklebot]

During Betting Exchangethe whole Ottawa Senators modern history, the Ottawa scouting staff and GMs did not produce any NHL players, playing in Ottawa uniform, drafting in the second round. Since we drafted Stanislav Neckar and then Mike Fisher. 28 years of nothingness. And to think that drafting off board with Pinto they found a gem, the odds are against it. Or to think Fermenton is the NHL caliber player. Our drafting was the worst in the league in the second round through out Sens modern history. That's why, every second round pick should be under microscope, because of the gigantic rate of failure. We should never ever trust our scouting department. We have to make sure, no more Pintos and more Kaliyevs in the future.

I won't bother digging into the muchler years, as they were terrible and all agree (picking from Russia at the height of the KHL threat was a poor strategic choice) but Silverberg and Lehner both played for the Sens, as did Wiercioch.

After them, we have Prince from 2011 who while technically a 2nd round pick was actually picked 61st in a 30 team league; he did play some games but I'd qualify him as an outright bust. Then, we didn't draft in the 2nd round until 2014 with Englund, who I agree is a bust as is Gagne in 2015. The remainder of our 2nd round picks, Chlapik, Dahlen, Formenton, Tychonik, Pinto and Sogaard, it's too early to tell as the oldest among them is 22.

So basically, we have 3 hits, two of which are continuing to have good NHL careers, 3 straight up busts, and 6 "yet to see". Not great, but certainly not worst in the league bad, and it's a pretty small sample to get worked up about. Any time you restrict analysis to such a small sample, things get goofy.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

During the whole Ottawa Senators modern history, the Ottawa scouting staff and GMs did not produce any NHL players, playing in Ottawa uniform, drafting in the second round. Since we drafted Stanislav Neckar and then Mike Fisher. 28 years of nothingness. And to think that drafting off board with Pinto they found a gem, the odds are against it. Or to think Fermenton is the NHL caliber player. Our drafting was the worst in the league in the second round through out Sens modern history. That's why, every second round pick should be under microscope, because of the gigantic rate of failure. We should never ever trust our scouting department. We have to make sure, no more Pintos and more Kaliyevs in the future.

Scouting has changed a lot in 28 years, and I'm pretty sure none of the scouts from 28 years ago are still on staff.

Hell, I kinda doubt any of the scouts from 10+ years ago are still on staff (or at least not more than 1 or 2 leftover from that time).

Pretty hard to gauge an organizational drafting record over such a long time period. Too many things change.

 

[bert]

If the Sens can improve Pinto's skating as they did for Mark Stone another notch & he himself improves his puck skills over the next yr or two in school, IMO Pinto's scoring should improve by another notch because of those things. Those two things can be improved, but hockey sense & competitiveness not so much but luckily he already has those in spades. BTW why spades & not clubs?

He has never scored at any level ever in his career. How can you compare him to be a top 10 forward in the league. Stone was hurt in his draft year.

 

[bert]

Good points, obviously #1 need is a #1 C - after that I’d make the list of highest priority as:

#1 C
#1 Goalie (paging Mr. Sogaard)
#1 RW
#2 LW
#3 RD

The team is 2 years should look like this:

Tkachuk - #1 C- #1 RW
#2 LW - Norris - Batherson
Formenton - Brown - Davidson
Balcers - Pinto - Gruden
Chlapik

Chabot - Jaros
Wolanin - Thomson
Bransstrom - #3 RD

#1 Goalie or (Soggard)
Gustafson / Daccord / Hogberg /

You think the oldest forward on the team is going to be 24 years old. Unreal. Literally has never happened in the history of the NHL.

 

[BatherSeason]

LA offered the Sens a 6th round pick to move down to 33. This team is just idiotic lmao.

Read this last night. LA was obviously trading up to pick Kalyiev, pretty sure they only team that would reach for Pinto was the Ottawa Senators. Pierre Dorion is a moron. Plain and simple.

 

[bert]

Those guys born Sept to December have a much harder time all the way thru minor hockey. They are younger at an age when 6 months physical maturity really matters. They get screened out at early stages, play at lower levels, less ice time, inferior coaching.

Being born January to June is a massive advantage wrt become a pro hockey player

Except in their draft year when they have had a full extra year of hockey under their belts. And lets get serious if a player is an NHL draft pick he didnt have a hard time in minor hockey no matter when he was born. I know through a former sens scout the sens do not take the extra year into consideration when evaluating a player. Which I personally think is extremely flawed. All factors should be taken into consideration birth date, when they physically matured etc.

 

[BatherSeason]

Scouting has changed a lot in 28 years, and I'm pretty sure none of the scouts from 28 years ago are still on staff.

Hell, I kinda doubt any of the scouts from 10+ years ago are still on staff (or at least not more than 1 or 2 leftover from that time).

Pretty hard to gauge an organizational drafting record over such a long time period. Too many things change.

7 of our 12 current scouts were hired after 2017 and 9 out of 12 after 2014.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

7 of our 12 current scouts were hired after 2017 and 9 out of 12 after 2014.

Yikes!

I knew we had some turnover recently....didn't think it was that much.

 

[BatherSeason]

Yikes!

I knew we had some turnover recently....didn't think it was that much.

Not sure what is crazier, the fact they only have 12 scouts (I think close to half may even be part time)? Or that Melnyk can't keep employees?