NHL Entry Draft 2019 Entry Draft Discussion (part 3)

[Joeyjoejoe]

Just listened to that Mann interview, he clarified that Thomson was on loan to Kelowna so he can in fact play either WHL, Liiga or AHL. Also Guennette sounds like an impressive dude. I was exiceted about that pick and Mann gave me some more reason to think he could be our next great 7th rounder.

I'd personally say I prefer Thomson to go to Liiga. He said he has a top pairing role waiting for him. Kelowna would be a great place for him as well given they're hosting the memorial cup. 2020 will probably be a big year for him whichever way he goes.

link to this interview?

please and thank you.

 

[Upgrayedd]

The turning down a free pick rumour/fact? is certainly fascinating, would be interested to hear more context on that.

 

[aragorn]

He has never scored at any level ever in his career. How can you compare him to be a top 10 forward in the league. Stone was hurt in his draft year.

Of course he has, he has scored in the leagues he has played in & will score when he attends college,. I never compared him to Stone, I said that the Sens could help him improve his skating as they did with Stone. That doesn't mean I think he will become Mark Stone, it means I think they can help him to be a better skater. That chart SOA put up showed that he was rated high with competitiveness & hockey sense & average skating & puck skills, two things that IMO the Sens can help him improve in. If those two things can be improved upon than IMO the scoring will improve also. That's what I said.

 

[BatherSeason]

The turning down a free pick rumour/fact? is certainly fascinating, would be interested to hear more context on that.

I think it is in a behind the scenes draft video on Twitter released by the Kings . All of Sens twitter was retweeting it last night, should be easy to find. I would look, but I don't have Twitter access at work.

 

[h2]

During the whole Ottawa Senators modern history, the Ottawa scouting staff and GMs did not produce any NHL players, playing in Ottawa uniform, drafting in the second round. Since we drafted Stanislav Neckar and then Mike Fisher. 28 years of nothingness. And to think that drafting off board with Pinto they found a gem, the odds are against it. Or to think Fermenton is the NHL caliber player. Our drafting was the worst in the league in the second round through out Sens modern history. That's why, every second round pick should be under microscope, because of the gigantic rate of failure. We should never ever trust our scouting department. We have to make sure, no more Pintos and more Kaliyevs in the future.

Lehner? Silfverberg? That’s two that came to mind in less than five seconds of thinking without googling. Do some research.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

During the whole Ottawa Senators modern history, the Ottawa scouting staff and GMs did not produce any NHL players, playing in Ottawa uniform, drafting in the second round. Since we drafted Stanislav Neckar and then Mike Fisher. 28 years of nothingness. And to think that drafting off board with Pinto they found a gem, the odds are against it. Or to think Fermenton is the NHL caliber player. Our drafting was the worst in the league in the second round through out Sens modern history. That's why, every second round pick should be under microscope, because of the gigantic rate of failure. We should never ever trust our scouting department. We have to make sure, no more Pintos and more Kaliyevs in the future.

Antoine Vermette was a 2nd round choice of the Senators, played 5 seasons for the Sens.

Patrick Wiercioch was a 2nd round choice of the Senators, played 5 seasons for the Sens.

Robin Lehner was a 2nd round choice of the Senators, played 3 seasons for the Sens.

Jakob Silfverberg was a 2nd round choice of the Senators, played 1 season for the Sens.

 

[stempniaksen]

Lehner? Silfverberg? That’s two that came to mind in less than five seconds of thinking without googling. Do some research.

+ Wiercicoch (kinda) and Vermette (1000+ games).

He's kinda half right though. I was surprised to go back through the history of Sens 2nd round draft picks and see a lot of misses.

Johny Tychonik, Alex Formenton, Jonathan Dahlen, Gabriel Gagne, Filip Chlapik, Andreas Englund, Shane Prince, Silfverberg, Lehner, Wiercioch, Bashkirov, Lyamin, Mirnov, Kaigorodov, Chouinard, Vermette, Lajeunesse, Sainomaa, Fisher, Bala, Moro, Neckar, Bicanek, Penney.

Too early to tell: 4
Good NHL careers: 5
Journeyman career: 1-2
Outright busts: 13

 

[Upgrayedd]

I think it is in a behind the scenes draft video on Twitter released by the Kings . All of Sens twitter was retweeting it last night, should be easy to find. I would look, but I don't have Twitter access at work.

Not debating it occurred, just hoping there is some angle that has not been discussed as on the surface it appears completely nonsensical as to why you would say no.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

FYI pretty good interview with Craig Button on TSN1200, about the Draft, and the Prospect pool of the Sens.

https://tinyurl.com/OttawaProspectPool

 

[h2]

+ Wiercicoch (kinda) and Vermette (1000+ games).

He's kinda half right though. I was surprised to go back through the history of Sens 2nd round draft picks and see a lot of misses.

Johny Tychonik, Alex Formenton, Jonathan Dahlen, Gabriel Gagne, Filip Chlapik, Andreas Englund, Shane Prince, Silfverberg, Lehner, Wiercioch, Bashkirov, Lyamin, Mirnov, Kaigorodov, Chouinard, Vermette, Lajeunesse, Sainomaa, Fisher, Bala, Moro, Neckar, Bicanek, Penney.

Too early to tell: 4
Good NHL careers: 5
Journeyman career: 1-2
Outright busts: 13

Probably not too far off the norm compared to other teams. Definitely not 'worst in the league'. Muckler going heavy on the Russians that were slipping in the 2nd didn't help those statistics either, which was a big gamble.

 

[BatherSeason]

Not debating it occurred, just hoping there is some angle that has not been discussed as on the surface it appears completely nonsensical as to why you would say no.

I guess Dorion was scared that they were gonna grab Pinto (shoulder shrug)

 

[BondraTime]

Drake Batherson was drafted in the June 2017 Entry draft, in the 4th round by the Senators, when he was 19 years old (Born April 27, 1998).

He was NOT drafted the year before (2016) when he was 18 years old, and meet the draft eligibility requirements.

The point is that a number of people seem to upset that Ottawa "wasted" (their words) two picks in this last draft, on over-agers, who has been through a draft (or two) before.

Drake Batherson was drafted in his 3rd year of CHL eligibility (his 18 year old season....)

These kids drafted were in their 17 year old season, outside of those born from September 16-Dec 31st who are drafted in their 18 year old season.

The Sens have wasted a ton of draft picks on guys who were unranked and on nobodies radar aside from our team. The Boyles, Aneloski's, Burgess's, etc. We made another one this year with Lodin. Kastelic isn't one if these picks, he went around where he was ranked, e was just a normal overage selection. He would have been picked at some point in the next 100 picks by someone, Lodin would not, and he got taken 94th.

Batherson was in his 18 year old season (the other guys were in their 19 year old seasons) and ranked to be drafted ~4th/5th round (the others were not ranked to go anywhere). Likewise with Wolanin who was ranked as a 5th-6th round skater playing in the USHL in his 19 year old season.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

link to this interview?

please and thank you.

2 pages back RAFI BOMB posted it

 

[BondraTime]

Not sure what is crazier, the fact they only have 12 scouts (I think close to half may even be part time)? Or that Melnyk can't keep employees?

They have 15 scouts, all full time.

 

[BatherSeason]

They have 15 scouts, all full time.

Source? The website only lists 13 and one of them is Trent Mann. That's definitely not 15. Only 9 are listed as "Amateur Scouts".

Front Office

It also looks like we have a "Amateuar Scout".

 

[BondraTime]

Source? The website only lists 13 and one of them is Trent Mann. That's definitely not 15.

It doesn't list Christian De Blois, Kyle Flannagan or Petr Havluj

 

[BatherSeason]

It doesn't list Christian De Blois, Kyle Flannagan or Petr Havluj

So then, minus the 3 pro scouts, that would make 12.

 

[BatherSeason]

It doesn't list Christian De Blois, Kyle Flannagan or Petr Havluj

Christian De Blois is part time as he also works for the Shawinigan Cataractes according to his LinkedIn profile. I am sure there are more than one who have other jobs.

 

[BondraTime]

So then, minus the 3 pro scouts, that would make 12.

Considering you were talking about the ones listed on listed on the website without knowing of the other 3, not sure what that has to do with anything? There are 3 more scouts than you had believed by looking at the scout list.

The 2 that were part time last year (Boeser and Stirling) had since been made full time.

Mann is 100% an amateur scout, he is the amateur scout for us.

 

[BondraTime]

Christian De Blois is part time as he also works for the Shawinigan Cataractes according to his LinkedIn profile. I am sure there are more than one who have other jobs.

He is not part time, I am telling you. He was with Shawinigan last season, and operates for them as the director of hockey ops this year. His work for the Sens is full time. Exact same as Bobby Strumm, who still works within the WHL.

De Blois is going to be the guy we want to lean on, he killed his time in Saint John, and sees more QMJHL hockey than most NHL scouts.

 

[BatherSeason]

Considering you were talking about the ones listed on listed on the website without knowing of the other 3, not sure what that has to do with anything? There are 3 more scouts than you had believed by looking at the scout list.

The 2 that were part time last year (Boeser and Stirling) had since been made full time.

Mann is 100% an amateur scout, he is the amateur scout for us.

To be honest, I am really not sure why or why you are debating with me, my post stated:

of our 12 current scouts were hired after 2017 and 9 out of 12 after 2014.

Whether there are 15, 12, 25, doesn't matter, the turnover is huge, that is the point I am making.

If it's the full-time/part-time argument, then I concede defeat.

 

[BondraTime]

To be honest, I am really not sure why or why you are debating with me, my post stated:



Whether there are 15, 12, 25, doesn't matter, the turnover is huge, that is the point I am making.

If it's the full-time/part-time argument, then I concede defeat.

Was just stating that you didn't seem to count the 3 scouts they hired prior to the season, for which they haven't updated their site for some reason, but that's another story.

 

[BatherSeason]

Was just stating that you didn't seem to count the 3 scouts they hired prior to the season, for which they haven't updated their site for some reason, but that's another story.

Haha, no worries. The same web guys who only edit when they are told to I guess. DJ Smith is there now, yet Nick Ruzkowski is still listed as the COO.

As for the part time/full time argument, seems like a few of the scouts do hold positions or jobs elsewhere, doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't "full-time", but some of these guys are obviously not 100% dedicated to scouting for the Ottawa Senators.

Bobby Strumm: Hockey Staff – Portland Winterhawks
Todd Stirling: https://www.linkedin.com/in/todd-stirling-40795738/

Just so happens that the first 3 I searched hold other positions elsewhere (Deblois, Strumm, Stirling)

Also posted this in the POHO thread, but seems like Melnyk promised more scouts, just like he promised a POHO.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Drake Batherson was drafted in his 3rd year of CHL eligibility (his 18 year old season....)

These kids drafted were in their 17 year old season, outside of those born from September 16-Dec 31st who are drafted in their 18 year old season.

The Sens have wasted a ton of draft picks on guys who were unranked and on nobodies radar aside from our team. The Boyles, Aneloski's, Burgess's, etc. We made another one this year with Lodin. Kastelic isn't one if these picks, he went around where he was ranked, e was just a normal overage selection. He would have been picked at some point in the next 100 picks by someone, Lodin would not, and he got taken 94th.

Batherson was in his 18 year old season (the other guys were in their 19 year old seasons) and ranked to be drafted ~4th/5th round (the others were not ranked to go anywhere). Likewise with Wolanin who was ranked as a 5th-6th round skater playing in the USHL in his 19 year old season.

You're missing the point, all players must be 18 years old as of Sept. 15 in their draft year.

Batherson was eligible to be drafted, as per NHL entry draft rules (at 18 years old) in June of the 2016 NHL draft, and was not selected, by anyone ........ and then Ottawa drafted him the following year...... in his second year of draft eligibility.

 

[BondraTime]

You're missing the point, all players must be 18 years old as of Sept. 15 in their draft year.

Batherson was eligible to be drafted, as per NHL entry draft rules (at 18 years old) in June of the 2016 NHL draft, and was not selected, by anyone ........ and then Ottawa drafted him the following year...... in his second year of draft eligibility.

I fully understand, you don't seem to understand the difference between age and seasons.