Euro: 2019 Champions League Final

[Stray Wasp]

I find myself recalling that Manchester City fan who, after his team clinched the first domestic treble in it or any other English club's history, could think of nothing better to do than launch a foul-mouthed tirade against journalists for failing to give his precious boys enough credit.

I bet he enjoyed last night.

 

[hatterson]

They parked the bus for 88 minutes. And Spurs had no answer for that bus parking.

That’s kinda he point. Spurs had no answer and it never looked like they were going to.

Given that Liverpool was also playing poor (heat or rust or injuries or whatever cause) there was no reason to do anything fancier than just slogging up the midfield and keeping things in front of their CBs.

 

[Albatros]

Yes, hence my original post about "save for the 60s, the teams that used it were from the 90s".

I wouldn't say that any European team since the early 1970s Milan has used the tactic successfully, after Brazil destroyed Italy in the 1970 World Cup final and Ajax started undressing the Italians in European football the weaknesses became evident to everyone. But of course the later mixed zone football of Juventus and the national team was a reaction to that and had a similar formation. Still many of the weaknesses remained the same and Trapattoni managed to win the competition only once, and we all remember why that final was anything but boring.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Yeah I am glad Klopp realize this and took Firmino off. As opposed to what happened with Kane on the other side

Spurs were behind and even with how bad Kane was playing he can score better than anybody Spurs could've brought on, except Moura who was coming in regardless. If the game was tied at the 60-70 minute mark Llorente probably comes on for Kane and they keep Winks on.

 

[Evilo]

I'd say italian teams used it very successfully in the first part of the 90s. And not just italian teams (Greece 04).

 

[YNWA14]

I can see how it would have been tough viewing for a neutral. I was following best I could. Plenty of teams have won the Champions League by neutralizing the opponent at the expense of offense. Traditionally Liverpool has not been one to use that mold, but a win is a win.

Really glad Origi scored so no one can complain about the PK. I thought it was a PK but my friend who is also LFC fan did not. Who knows.

Divock Origi. He doesn't make sense. None of his goals make sense. Do you smell what Divock is cooking?

It's not 'who knows' it was a 100% clear cut penalty. I have no idea how anyone could have a problem with it. His arm is out well over his shoulder away from his body, not in any kind of action that would require it, and whether or not it hit his body first it stopped the ball going into a dangerous area in the box. It's ludicrous to argue it wasn't a penalty and it was totally bizarre by Sissoko to stand in the box like that.

 

[DrMartinVanNostrand]

I can see how it would have been tough viewing for a neutral. I was following best I could. Plenty of teams have won the Champions League by neutralizing the opponent at the expense of offense. Traditionally Liverpool has not been one to use that mold, but a win is a win.

Really glad Origi scored so no one can complain about the PK. I thought it was a PK but my friend who is also LFC fan did not. Who knows.

Divock Origi. He doesn't make sense. None of his goals make sense. Do you smell what Divock is cooking?

That's not really how it works. The penalty call and it's successful conversion literally less than two full minutes into the game completely changed the course of the game. That wasn't a butterfly effect, it was a f*cking Boeing 747 effect. Anyone out there who might make the claim that "well, Origi's goal means Liverpool would've won anyway" supposing that the previous 85 minutes would've played out the very same way 0-0 that they did at 1-0, is completely out to lunch.

Why UEFA? It's totally the EPL fault.
They whine about the packed schedule, they take no Xmas break and yet they finish WAY earlier than most leagues.
UEFA waited the usual days after the last league is finished, which was Italy IIRC.

To which I'll reiterate something I said yesterday, which is that, whether UEFA has any say here or if it's up to the individual federations, they really should work on narrowing these margins. The Premier League finishing two weeks before Serie A is kind of a problem. I also realize, of course, that all the Cup finals tend to follow the weekend after the domestic league seasons are over, but, you know what? All these leagues tend to have their own preferred time slots, where Italian and Spanish games tend to air at night whereas German and English ones skew more towards the day time and, furthermore, at least in the case of the latter two leagues, in Germany they play all the games on the last two matchdays at the same time on Saturdays, whereas the Premier League's big finish is on a Sunday. All of this is staggered across the leagues. It shouldn't be that difficult, frankly, to have more cohesion. (I'm kinda/sorta looking over France, the Netherlands, and Portugal here; I know in France there's a heavy emphasis on Saturday evening games there as well, in line with Italy and Spain.)

So I don't disagree with you here. The Premier League and the FA know the Champions League Final date ahead of time, and when you have Manchester City and Liverpool in their current states then it's not hard to imagine an English side reaching the Final...try to help your teams out for once.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

It's not 'who knows' it was a 100% clear cut penalty. I have no idea how anyone could have a problem with it. His arm is out well over his shoulder away from his body, not in any kind of action that would require it, and whether or not it hit his body first it stopped the ball going into a dangerous area in the box. It's ludicrous to argue it wasn't a penalty and it was totally bizarre by Sissoko to stand in the box like that.

It was not a 100% clear cut penalty. 50/50 call and personally I don't call it considering the ball was not going to the net plus it deflected off Sissoko's body and his intention was not to block the ball with the arm. Doesn't matter now and I've seen worse calls anyways.

 

[YNWA14]

It doesn't matter if your intention is to block the ball when you're standing in the box with your arm out like that and it absolutely prevents a potentially dangerous ball into the box; come on you can't do that otherwise hey why not just have everyone in the box stand there with their arms out?

 

[Vasilevskiy]

It doesn't matter if your intention is to block the ball when you're standing in the box with your arm out like that and it absolutely prevents a potentially dangerous ball into the box; come on you can't do that otherwise hey why not just have everyone in the box stand there with their arms out?

Let's have it reversed, if instead of Sissoko its VVD, same exact play do you also think it's a 100% clear cut penalty?

 

[YNWA14]

Let's have it reversed, if instead of Sissoko its VVD, same exact play do you also think it's a 100% clear cut penalty?

Yes, if ANYONE did that it's a clear penalty. You cannot stand in the box with your arms out like that; I genuinely have no idea how anyone could think that is not a penalty regardless of allegiance.

 

[John Pedro]

Boring game... that early pen was weak. Congrats, Liverpool.

One of the dullest UCL finals, though.

 

[Power Man]

Bro, spiders ARE raid

Lol

 

[Evilo]

That's an awful penalty call.
The intent question is completely written off here since Sissoko had his arm pointing before the chip.
There's really zero way you can argue it's an obvious penalty.
Only thing is that it prevents a dangerous play but even that is a stretch given the 0% intent.
You could in fact argue the attacker had the intent of hitting his arm.

 

[Savant]

That's not really how it works. The penalty call and it's successful conversion literally less than two full minutes into the game completely changed the course of the game. That wasn't a butterfly effect, it was a f*cking Boeing 747 effect. Anyone out there who might make the claim that "well, Origi's goal means Liverpool would've won anyway" supposing that the previous 85 minutes would've played out the very same way 0-0 that they did at 1-0, is completely out to lunch.

I don't buy that at all. Tottenham didn't score. They can't complain. PK or not, you need to score to win. They didn't. The PK isn't why Tottenham lost. Tottenham lost because Liverpool shut them down.

 

[Power Man]

While BR invited some NBA player in the US, BeIN Sporta had Jose and Arsene as pundits and it was great

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

It doesn't matter if your intention is to block the ball when you're standing in the box with your arm out like that and it absolutely prevents a potentially dangerous ball into the box; come on you can't do that otherwise hey why not just have everyone in the box stand there with their arms out?

What Sissoko did in the box was foolish, sure. But the call is still bad.

It didn't prevent a dangerous ball into the box. If his arm was tucked in it would have been blocked and deflected in front of him instead of behind him. Probably would have made things less dangerous if anything.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I don't buy that at all. Tottenham didn't score. They can't complain. PK or not, you need to score to win. They didn't. The PK isn't why Tottenham lost. Tottenham lost because Liverpool shut them down.

The argument is that they would have had a higher chance to score if Liverpool were chasing to score themselves.

 

[Savant]

The argument is that they would have had a higher chance to score if Liverpool were chasing to score themselves.

Respectfully, I do not think that is a valid argument, and I don't think there is any data that can quantify that. It's the CL Final.

That's like me saying Tottenham should have had a higher chance to score because they knew they were behind.

Its moot

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Respectfully, I do not think that is a valid argument, and I don't think there is any data that can quantify that. It's the CL Final.

That's like me saying Tottenham should have had a higher chance to score because they knew they were behind.

Its moot

Do I really need data to say that different gameplans result in different outcomes?

 

[Savant]

Do I really need data to say that different gameplans result in different outcomes?

No, of course not. I don't think the data even matters here. What happened, happened. At this level of a final that goes out the window. You can't win if you don't score; teams need to find a way.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Ok, after a crappy nights sleep....

1)At least the referee was consistent in calling handball. I think he was wrong but.....FFS, keep your f***ing arm down, Moussa.
2)Spurs controlled the play, but so what? Was like watching a fighter with no power just jab for 12 rounds. Ok, you threw more punches but you couldn't bruise a peach.
3)Starting Kane probably cost them the game. Hear me out. The opening goal wouldn't have happened had Lucas been there. He wouldn't have been where Kane was on the pitch and it's likely the play wouldn't have developed as it had and the handball wouldn't have happened and everything that followed would have been different. No way to know what would have happened, hell, Liverpool could have won 5-0, but that PK wouldn't have happened 30 seconds into the match.
4)I really dislike Liverpool supporters
5)I REALLY like the Liverpool squad. I love how they play. They all seem like really good guys, and that does matter when it comes to how one feels about another teams squad.
6)I REALLY like Klopp.
7)4 and 5 and 6 above really suck when combined.
8)I don't know how anything other than injuries will prevent Liverpool from winning the PL next year. ManCity scratched and clawed their way to win this year by milliseconds. That was the sound of a last gasp with that group of players. They won't re-set, but they will not be the same team next year.
9)If you had told me before the season Spurs would end up 3rd in the PL and runner up in the CL, I would have been thrilled. But now, I think it's sunk in that this was their chance. They won't win the PL unless Liverpool steps on their dick. And everything broke SO perfectly for Spurs make the finals this year, I mean, they can't expect that again.
10)From being a fan of the Falcons and the Sharks and Blue Jackets, one would think I would be used to disappointment. Not disappointment, but heartbreak. Not real heartbreak, but sports heartbreak. The Sharks have the best record in the NHL since 2001 and have won f***-all. The Falcons, losing to the Patriots like that is a loss very few other sports fan can understand. But I am not used to it. It sucks.

 

[Evilo]

Penalty didn't change the outcome?
WTF?

 

[hatterson]

I think both extremes are silly

“0% penalty” vs “stonewall penalty” and neither are correct.

It’s a judgement call. He’s making his body bigger by having his arm out, even if it’s out due to pointing directions. However, the arm doesn’t block a dangerous ball into the box since the chest did the blocking first. When Mane chips the ball, it seems he realizes his arm is in a stupid spot and is trying to bring it back.

I’d rate it about a 60/40 or 75/25 call with the worse odds being giving the penalty. A bit of a harsh call, but not a “wrong” one.

 

[Evilo]

I think both extremes are silly
“0% penalty” vs “stonewall penalty” and neither are correct.

It’s a judgement call. He’s making his body bigger by having his arm out, even if it’s out due to pointing directions. However, the arm doesn’t block a dangerous ball into the box since the chest did the blocking first. When Mane chips the ball, it seems he realizes his arm is in a stupid spot and is trying to bring it back.

I’d rate it about a 60/40 or 75/25 call with the worse odds being giving the penalty. A bit of a harsh call, but not a “wrong” one.

Yeah I agree a 0 or 100 is ridiculous.
And I agree with rating it a little less than 50%.