Rumor: 2019-2020 Trade Rumours and Free Agent Discussion Version 8 | we're on a break Ed.

[Northern Avs Fan]

I don't see it personally. Everyone keeps saying his body will breakdown etc. Sure if he played like in his first season with the Avs when he was Viking, but ever since then I feel like he has played fairly soft game. I don't see power forward there. He does it now and then but I wouldt worry about his longevity.

He works hard but he is not making huge hits and fighting every match. He plays fairly soft imo.


I think Landy realized after first season in NHL that he can't continue like that for twenty years, so he changed his style. He is fairly conservative today.

This is a bit harsh imo.

If you think Landeskog plays soft, I’m not sure what you think of some of the other players on this team.

Landy is still the most physical forward on the Avs. I agree that he doesn’t often go viking mode like he did in his rookie season, but he’s not soft. He’s gone from being a power forward to more of a two-way forward. He does a little bit of everything.

Landy was noticeably better when he was healthy this year and hopefully that’s the guy the Avs get in the playoffs.

 

[shadow1]

It's very unfair to say Francouz had the better year as well. When both guys were healthy Frankie was getting the softer starts and on good teams it's not uncommon for the backup goalie to put up better numbers than the starter.

Both goalies had a level of consistency issues you'd rather not see but overall both goalies were among the very best in the league.

We'll have to wait and see what playoffs and next season brings but for right now goaltending is a non issue and if Grubauer continues playing at the level he has the first 2 seasons with us on the large scale, that's a goalie who is easily worth 5M. That's what solid starters get paid and that's what Grubauer would be. A solid starter.

Both goalies appeared in a similar amount of games (Grubauer 36, Francouz 34), so I think we can take a look:

Goalie	First 5	First 10	First 15	First 20	First 25	First 30	Final 31+
Grubauer	4-0-1, .921	6-2-2, .917	8-5-2, .911	10-7-2, .914	12-9-3, .910	14-11-4, .907	18-12-4, .916
Francouz	3-2-0, .906	6-2-0, .927	10-2-1, .934	12-4-2, .924	15-5-3, .926	19-5-4, .927	21-7-4, .923

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

As you can see from the above, Gruabuer started out hot, but 30 appearances in was sporting an extremely mediocre .907 SV% to go along with a 14-11-4 record. But he got white hot at the end, winning four games in a row (mind you, the opponents were Buffalo, Ottawa, Columbus, Ottawa again) and really improved his overall stat line.

 

[Freaky Styley]

Both goalies appeared in a similar amount of games (Grubauer 36, Francouz 34), so I think we can take a look:

Goalie	First 5	First 10	First 15	First 20	First 25	First 30	Final 31+
Grubauer	4-0-1, .921	6-2-2, .917	8-5-2, .911	10-7-2, .914	12-9-3, .910	14-11-4, .907	18-12-4, .916
Francouz	3-2-0, .906	6-2-0, .927	10-2-1, .934	12-4-2, .924	15-5-3, .926	19-5-4, .927	21-7-4, .923

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

As you can see from the above, Gruabuer started out hot, but 30 appearances in was sporting an extremely mediocre .907 SV% to go along with a 14-11-4 record. But he got white hot at the end, winning four games in a row (mind you, the opponents were Buffalo, Ottawa, Columbus, Ottawa again) and really improved his overall stat line.

Don't forget Grub's end of season last year and his playoff performance. We don't get into the playoffs without him likely. He just seems like a guy that performs better under pressure, and that's what I want out of my starter. Not a knock on Franky as he is great too, but I definitely have more faith in Grubs.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Well what exactly do you think starting goalies in the top half of the league will make?

5M would be very, very reasonable money for Grubauer.

Is Grubauer really a legit starting goaltender?

Based on the season so far he wasn't any better than Francouz who makes 2M for the next two seasons.

5-6M is not reasonable money for someone who has not established himself as a starting goaltender.

 

[shadow1]

Don't forget Grub's end of season last year and his playoff performance. We don't get into the playoffs without him likely. He just seems like a guy that performs better under pressure, and that's what I want out of my starter. Not a knock on Franky as he is great too, but I definitely have more faith in Grubs.

Yeah I mentioned in my earlier post that Grubauer was superb in last year's playoffs, I ultimately think he gets the start.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I think it’s fair to say that Francouz had a better year than Grubauer. Not by a ton, but by a bit.

Ultimately when Grubs is on though, his highs are higher imo. He nearly stole, I believe it was game 5 in San Jose. No other Av decided to show up that game and he still almost won the game by himself.

Bednar loves Franky’s work ethic and professionalism though and I’m sure he’ll be ready to roll if called upon.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Both goalies appeared in a similar amount of games (Grubauer 36, Francouz 34), so I think we can take a look:

Goalie	First 5	First 10	First 15	First 20	First 25	First 30	Final 31+
Grubauer	4-0-1, .921	6-2-2, .917	8-5-2, .911	10-7-2, .914	12-9-3, .910	14-11-4, .907	18-12-4, .916
Francouz	3-2-0, .906	6-2-0, .927	10-2-1, .934	12-4-2, .924	15-5-3, .926	19-5-4, .927	21-7-4, .923

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

As you can see from the above, Gruabuer started out hot, but 30 appearances in was sporting an extremely mediocre .907 SV% to go along with a 14-11-4 record. But he got white hot at the end, winning four games in a row (mind you, the opponents were Buffalo, Ottawa, Columbus, Ottawa again) and really improved his overall stat line.

Both guys had consistency issues throughout the season but over the full sample both goalies were very strong for us.


Also, just because Francouz had the better sv% doesn't mean he was the better goalie. Backups tend to have better numbers more often that one would think.


Just look at the number of backup guys with the better stats relative to the starter this year for example. Anton Khudobin, Jake Allen, Jusse Saros, Tristian Jarry.... All backups that played 20+ games this year with better numbers than the backup.


Teams also didn't have any sort of a book out on Francouz this season. Sometimes goalies can look really fantastic the first season they play because teams just dont know what kind of tendencies or soft parts of the game a goalie has. And then once teams get some NHL footage of a guy they start finding holes in his game to exploit. See Andrew Hammond as a Grade A example of that.



Which isn't to say Francouz is going to be a similar victim. I am a huge Frankie fan and would love to see him push Gruby and ultimately take that #1 spot from him. Frankie also has the advantage of being essentially the only South Paw goalie in the league right now.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Ahh glad to see the unnecessary Grubauer hate is back...

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Ahh glad to see the unnecessary Grubauer hate is back...

It's a little ridiculous at this point and from the same 2-3 posters it seems.

 

[The Abusement Park]

It's a little ridiculous at this point and from the same 2-3 posters it seems.

The guy that's tied for the 8th best sv% in the league sucks and is not a starting level goalie. I mean his career average is only .920...

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Ahh glad to see the unnecessary Grubauer hate is back...

Where is the hate?

Both of our goalies were pretty much equal this season.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Where is the hate?

Both of our goalies were pretty much equal this season.

You keep pushing this narrative that Grubauer isn't a starting goalie when he very clearly is one.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

The guy that's tied for the 8th best sv% in the league sucks and is not a starting level goalie. I mean his career average is only .920...

Yup for sure.

He's a solid goalie. Probably not elite level, but definitely starter quality and he has put up solid starter numbers each of the last two seasons with us now and looked incredible down the stretch and into the playoffs last season for us.

He has consistency issues and can have stretches where you're not happy with his game. But that's the reason he's just a good starter not an elite vezina caliber guy and every goalie in the league aside from those very select few elite lads are going to fight those same consistency issues.


And I like Frankie a lot but it's just not fair at all to suggest he had the better season. They both were strong and both carried the load well when called upon.


We're set up well for a 1A/1B dynamic next season allowing us to control the workload of each guy and honestly the hope should be that we can keep this tandem going for a few more years, with any luck until Annunen is actually ready for the NHL.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

You keep pushing this narrative that Grubauer isn't a starting goalie when he very clearly is one.

This is his 1st season as a starter and he did no better than Francouz who will make 2M the two years.

I have to disagree when I see claims that Grubauer deserves to be paid 5M+ a year. I also think the assumption that Grubauer is the clear starter is a mistake as he might actually be worse than Francouz.

Nobody is hating on anyone. The Avs have a goaltender situation where its not entirely clear who really is the better goaltender going forward.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Yup for sure.

He's a solid goalie. Probably not elite level, but definitely starter quality and he has put up solid starter numbers each of the last two seasons with us now and looked incredible down the stretch and into the playoffs last season for us.

He has consistency issues and can have stretches where you're not happy with his game. But that's the reason he's just a good starter not an elite vezina caliber guy and every goalie in the league aside from those very select few elite lads are going to fight those same consistency issues.


And I like Frankie a lot but it's just not fair at all to suggest he had the better season. They both were strong and both carried the load well when called upon.


We're set up well for a 1A/1B dynamic next season allowing us to control the workload of each guy and honestly the hope should be that we can keep this tandem going for a few more years, with any luck until Annunen is actually ready for the NHL.

100%. I don't think Grubauer is elite by any means, but he is an above average(at best) or even average starter and that's fine as most teams would love to have someone like Grubauer in net.

 

[The Abusement Park]

This is his 1st season as a starter and he did no better than Francouz who will make 2M the two years.

I have to disagree when I see claims that Grubauer deserves to be paid 5M+ a year. I also think the assumption that Grubauer is the clear starter is a mistake as he might actually be worse than Francouz.

Nobody is hating on anyone. The Avs have a goaltender situation where its not entirely clear who really is the better goaltender going forward.

So Grubauer doesn't deserve to be the starter because he's been one for 1 season but Frankie who's never been a starter deserves the job? Grubauer absolutely has earned a 5mil pay day as that is what an average starting level goalie would make. Francouz also got the much easier starts this year as well for the majority of the year so I'm sure that also plays a factor in why you think he's so much better than Grubauer.

 

[henchman21]

If you want a starter on a 4-5-6 year deal, you're going to be paying 6m in today's NHL. Varly, who struggled here the last few seasons and lost his job to Grubs got $5m per season. If a starter is passible to good, 6+m.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

So Grubauer doesn't deserve to be the starter because he's been one for 1 season but Frankie who's never been a starter deserves the job? Grubauer absolutely has earned a 5mil pay day as that is what an average starting level goalie would make. Francouz also got the much easier starts this year as well for the majority of the year so I'm sure that also plays a factor in why you think he's so much better than Grubauer.

I don't really care who the starter is just play whoever gives us a better chance to win.

Francouz was slightly better this season imo. If he does better in camp and games before the playoffs he should start the 1st round.

Francouz could be the better of the two going forward and if that is the case it would be dumb to pay Grubauer 5M+. I don't see what is so outrageous about that opinion.

 

[shadow1]

Both guys had consistency issues throughout the season but over the full sample both goalies were very strong for us.

Also, just because Francouz had the better sv% doesn't mean he was the better goalie. Backups tend to have better numbers more often that one would think.

Just look at the number of backup guys with the better stats relative to the starter this year for example. Anton Khudobin, Jake Allen, Jusse Saros, Tristian Jarry.... All backups that played 20+ games this year with better numbers than the backup.

Teams also didn't have any sort of a book out on Francouz this season. Sometimes goalies can look really fantastic the first season they play because teams just dont know what kind of tendencies or soft parts of the game a goalie has. And then once teams get some NHL footage of a guy they start finding holes in his game to exploit. See Andrew Hammond as a Grade A example of that.

Which isn't to say Francouz is going to be a similar victim. I am a huge Frankie fan and would love to see him push Gruby and ultimately take that #1 spot from him. Frankie also has the advantage of being essentially the only South Paw goalie in the league right now.

But the numbers don't say this, which I why I broke things down the way I did.

Jake Allen started 21 games this year vs Jordan Binnington's 50, so workload and opponent quality are huge factors. When comparing the workload of Francouz (31 GS) and Grubauer (36 GS), we're basically splitting hairs.

There's no doubt Grubauer got most of the tough starts early on. But Grubauer was hurt twice (or was it thrice?) this season, with his final game of the season being February 15th. Francouz started 12 of the Avs last 13 games (8-2-1), which included playing both games in (3) back-to-back scenarios.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I don't really care who the starter is just play whoever gives us a better chance to win.

Francouz was slightly better this season imo. If he does better in camp and games before the playoffs he should start the 1st round.

Francouz could be the better of the two going forward and if that is the case it would be dumb to pay Grubauer 5M+. I don't see what is so outrageous about that opinion.

You very clearly do care as all you do is crap on Grubauer Both guys played well this year but it'd be pretty shortsighted to throw Gru to the curb because of a guy who's played 35 NHL games.

 

[Azrael89]

Eklund speculates that the Avs could offersheet Barzal. How would that even work long term?

 

[Pokecheque]

Frankie put up better numbers, but he is not the better goaltender. Luck played into some of it, and the team was very apt at clearing the giant rebounds he gave up. In fact, they sometimes used it as an outlet pass of sorts. I'm not trying to slag Frankie--he's as good a backup as you could possibly expect, and has filled out the required role of "1B" quite well. But I think just looking at the numbers and concluding that Francouz is the superior goalie is flawed thinking.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

You very clearly do care as all you do is crap on Grubauer Both guys played well this year but it'd be pretty shortsighted to throw Gru to the curb because of a guy who's played 35 NHL games.

Lets assume Francouz has the better camp and exhibition games. Why should he not start the playoffs?

Neither goaltender has had a single season as a starter, this was supposed to be Grubauers first but he played as much as Francouz. They both were pretty much equally decent this year.

What is that makes Grubauer the clear starter no matter what?

I don't give a crap really as long as the goaltender who gives us the best chance to win starts. If Grubauer looks sharper he should start no questions asked and it would be foolish to do anything else.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Eklund speculates that the Avs could offersheet Barzal. How would that even work long term?

Trade Makar for Nylander but really send them EJ. Then Trade Kadri for a top 6 winger and resign Barrie to replace EJ.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Lets assume Francouz has the better camp and exhibition games. Why should he not start the playoffs?

Neither goaltender has had a single season as a starter, this was supposed to be Grubauers first but he played as much as Francouz. They both were pretty much equally decent this year.

What is that makes Grubauer the clear starter no matter what?

I don't give a crap really as long as the goaltender who gives us the best chance to win starts. If Grubauer looks sharper he should start no questions asked and it would be foolish to do anything else.

Grubauer got hurt this year, that's why their games are close. Grubauer has the better track record. The guy is a .920 career guy and outside of one anomalous stretch in the previous season he has been league starting quality guy here. His playoffs last year earn him the starting job as well. Francouz was very good this year but he got much easier starts for the majority of the year and 35 games doesn't change everything that Gru has done.