Rumor: 2019-2020 Trade Rumours and Free Agent Discussion Version 5.1 | Pre-Deadline Edition

[hooverdam]

Yeah, if they're not going to upgrade someone in the top 4 and push down one of Johnson/Zadorov/Cole/Graves, then they shouldn't bother to spend assets on a depth D. And Dillon really isn't an upgrade.

I would love to see them pursue someone like Gardiner, but now I doubt Carolina parts with him because of poor Dougie. But a similar situation like that, where there's a middle pairing defenseman with some offense to his game that hasn't been the greatest fit on his current team but could work on the Avs, is my preferred route. Like what Schultz did for the Penguins a few years ago.

 

[sethro109]

Two 1st's??

And no.

I meant this years and next's. And of course it was satire. I would like one of those 3, but I don't know if it's feasibly in the cards. Teams don't just want a good player when trading. A lot of times GM's want your best prospect or nothing. Some D depth is what we should focus on though. Could you imagine having to play Barbi or Lindholm in a playoff game? One would hope they call up Timmins in that situation, but if that was the plan I feel he'd be with the club now.

 

[Pokecheque]

I feel like both Martinez and Dillon would be defensive upgrades on Graves, but I'm just not sure by how much, and both of them are on the cusp of 30. Probably not worth pursuing.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

I feel like both Martinez and Dillon would be defensive upgrades on Graves, but I'm just not sure by how much, and both of them are on the cusp of 30. Probably not worth pursuing.

Honestly, I think a defensive upgrade needs to be someone that can retrieve the puck quickly and move it out with accuracy. That could be Timmins, it could be someone else. We need a third guy to get the transition game going

 

[Pokecheque]

Honestly, I think a defensive upgrade needs to be someone that can retrieve the puck quickly and move it out with accuracy. That could be Timmins, it could be someone else. We need a third guy to get the transition game going

Could not agree more--too bad Timmins is probably in the same place Connauton and Wilson are, wherever that may be *cue ominous music*

 

[Avs44]

I know it would probably include Byram, but I think Hertl's contract situation is something to keep our eye on. Sure he's signed, but him being Duchene 2.0 is going to come quite fast and he might not want to re-sign, especially in two years Sharks could realistically be a re-tooling club.

They should be looking long term and considering a 2-3 year retool / rebuild right now. But, like the GMs of most aging clubs whose windows have slipped away, I fully expect Wilson to continue clinging to most of his team for another 2-3 years until Burns, Karlsson, and Vlassic are so obviously done there is no choice left but to rebuild. So I expect them to hang on to Hertl unless forced to move him at the last moment.

Brendan Dillon really just feels like more of the same of what they’ve already got on D, and I don’t look at him as an upgrade at all.

In many ways, yes. But I've resigned myself to them not getting the big D upgrade they need. So I'd settle for Dillon...ensures that (when) an injury hits we don't see Barberio in the lineup, and might provide a PK boost. To me, Graves is a big weakspot there, I'd love to get him off.

 

[SoftMittsHardSticks]

All you guys are pissing on Graves, but I think that people forget that if he played one less game last year, he would still be considered a rookie this year. For a kid that's one game off from a rookie year like he's having, you guys should all be a lot more stoked on his level of play

 

[Pokecheque]

All you guys are pissing on Graves, but I think that people forget that if he played one less game last year, he would still be considered a rookie this year. For a kid that's one game off from a rookie year like he's having, you guys should all be a lot more stoked on his level of play

The way I view Graves is thus:
1. The fact the Avs got a viable NHL defenseman in exchange for a complete bust is a BIG win for Joe Sakic.
2. I think Graves is a good bottom pairing defender who's currently being overplayed, and is doing just fine when all of that is considered.
3. His defensive technique is simply not good, nor are his defensive instincts. Again, it's fine for a bottom-pairing guy, just not a top-pairing guy.
4. Hell of a shot. And I like how he's learned to pick his spots and get it through traffic. You know he lives for moments like the other night against the Sharks when he just gets to unload a big one-timer.
5. I think he's good and have no issue whatsoever with him staying...apart from the fact that I wonder if this is the guy you sell high on. That said, it really has to be one of those situations IMO where someone is overpaying to justify dealing him.

The only thing I want to avoid is another Nick Holden situation, but personally I think he's a little better than Holden was.

Overall I just think they gotta find another top-four guy for the defense. Long term, they already have a couple in the system. But this year if they so choose they have to find that player via trade. I'm interested to see what they can get on the market, but I guess it just comes down to what they have to offer another team and what's out there. As it stands, there's no defender who might be available that excites me, so maybe they just stay the course, or maybe they get a forward.

I don't think you're wrong for liking the guy. I like him. But I also think some of you would like him less if he wasn't playing alongside an absolute phenom in Cale Makar. Any given situation where he's asked to be the better of the two defensemen out on the ice, the results are usually pretty disastrous.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Yeah Graves is a totally fine bottom 6 guy. If Sakic can sell high and get something worthwhile for him than cool. I also wouldn’t mind him here short term to be a bottom pairing guy either.

 

[dahrougem2]

All you guys are pissing on Graves, but I think that people forget that if he played one less game last year, he would still be considered a rookie this year. For a kid that's one game off from a rookie year like he's having, you guys should all be a lot more stoked on his level of play

Nobody wants Graves off the team. What we want, is him off the pairing with Cale Makar.

Nobody in this organization right now seems to be able to hold that role, so it'd take a trade. Graves belongs on a 3rd pairing playing 14-16 minutes per night, not on a top pairing and playing as a top PKer.

 

[UncleRisto]

I mean, who else gets to add a literal reanimated corpse to their team at the deadline? You have to admit it's an advantage.

It's not called deadline for nothing.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Yep, Graves to me is a real solid potential long term solution to the 3LD spot and that is a HUGE win for Sakic on the trade front, considering we got him for nothing(Poor Bigras). If we can lock him up on 2-3 year deal in the 2-3M neighborhood this summer we should be thrilled with that. He's an excellent 3rd pairing Dman and would give us stability in that role.


But he's not a top pairing guy and he shouldn't be one of your top PKers either. The problem is we dont really have anyone better to play either role right now. Not unless they want to start experimenting with Makar or Girard playing more frequently on the PK anyway.

 

[Freudian]

One problem with Graves is that Avs probably want to give Makar more minutes sooner rather than later. Does that mean Graves gets an increase as well? He's already exposed as it is.

I guess if Bowen eats his vitamins this summer it might be a short term issue.

 

[UncleRisto]

It's not called deadline for nothing.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

One problem with Graves is that Avs probably want to give Makar more minutes sooner rather than later. Does that mean Graves gets an increase as well? He's already exposed as it is.

I guess if Bowen eats his vitamins this summer it might be a short term issue.

I really think for next year the Avs best play would be to put Girard and Makar together from game 1 and not stray away from it.


They're our best shot right now at a legit, 25 minute a night Top pairing. They showed in the playoffs that they're capable of greatness together. They struggled earlier this year but I think a big part of that was just getting used to really playing with each other and the fact both Cale and G were struggling a little during that time when they were together.


For next year, assuming Byram makes the team and we dont add anyone of significance on the back end I'd like to see:


Girard - Makar
Graves - EJ
Byram - Cole



With Byram eventually moving up to replace Graves probably around December or January. And Timmins used as the first callup when EJ or Cole inevitably go down with injury.

 

[cgf]

Honestly, I think a defensive upgrade needs to be someone that can retrieve the puck quickly and move it out with accuracy. That could be Timmins, it could be someone else. We need a third guy to get the transition game going

We could use more than just 1 more of those

One to play with Cale and (at least) one for the pairing that doesn't get Cale or Samwise could/should give us an advantage on the blueline again.

 

[cgf]

All you guys are pissing on Graves, but I think that people forget that if he played one less game last year, he would still be considered a rookie this year. For a kid that's one game off from a rookie year like he's having, you guys should all be a lot more stoked on his level of play

Why? Does his lack of NHL experience change his talent level with & against the puck? Is more experience going to improve his skating & skill, or his ability to break up the cycle? Not saying he can't have a solid career as a third pairing guy who isn't terrible when forced up the lineup (temporarily)...provided more experience improves his decision making...like Holden, but just like with Holden, an impressive rookie year doesn't change his ceiling/talent level.

 

[cgf]

I'm so using this with the words "Win one for Willie" as my playoff avi

 

[cgf]

I really think for next year the Avs best play would be to put Girard and Makar together from game 1 and not stray away from it.


They're our best shot right now at a legit, 25 minute a night Top pairing. They showed in the playoffs that they're capable of greatness together. They struggled earlier this year but I think a big part of that was just getting used to really playing with each other and the fact both Cale and G were struggling a little during that time when they were together.


For next year, assuming Byram makes the team and we dont add anyone of significance on the back end I'd like to see:


Girard - Makar
Graves - EJ
Byram - Cole



With Byram eventually moving up to replace Graves probably around December or January. And Timmins used as the first callup when EJ or Cole inevitably go down with injury.

A lot depends on where Bo & Timms are at next fall, because reuniting turn-n-burn while pairing Bo with EJ & Timmins with Cole/Graves, would make a good bit of sense should both kids be ready to start getting eased in...with Bednar shortening the rotation later in games during the early part of the season. If one or both don't claim an NHL spot then the equation changes; ditto if we get a stop-gap...(just to annoy Balthazar) like Murray)..

 

[JH21]

Just because all you guys regurgitate what each other say all the time and say that Graves doesn't belong on the top pair with Makar doesn't mean it's true.

 

[Ararana]

I really think for next year the Avs best play would be to put Girard and Makar together from game 1 and not stray away from it.


They're our best shot right now at a legit, 25 minute a night Top pairing. They showed in the playoffs that they're capable of greatness together. They struggled earlier this year but I think a big part of that was just getting used to really playing with each other and the fact both Cale and G were struggling a little during that time when they were together.


For next year, assuming Byram makes the team and we dont add anyone of significance on the back end I'd like to see:


Girard - Makar
Graves - EJ
Byram - Cole



With Byram eventually moving up to replace Graves probably around December or January. And Timmins used as the first callup when EJ or Cole inevitably go down with injury.

I agree with this, but damn that's a tiny top pairing for 25 minutes a night. Waiting for Byram and Timmins to be top four ready is going to test a lot of people's patience.

 

[tucker3434]

Just because all you guys regurgitate what each other say all the time and say that Graves doesn't belong on the top pair with Makar doesn't mean it's true.

That’s a 2009-2017 Avs move. Take a guy who’s doing well in his role then force him to do more and watch him fall apart. I love Graves for what he is. He shouldn’t be on our top pair if we’re going for a cup.

 

[cgf]

Just because all you guys regurgitate what each other say all the time and say that Graves doesn't belong on the top pair with Makar doesn't mean it's true.

No doubt. It's his play on the ice that makes it true.

 

[cgf]

That’s a 2009-2017 Avs move. Take a guy who’s doing well in his role then force him to do more and watch him fall apart. I love Graves for what he is. He shouldn’t be on our top pair if we’re going for a cup.

Bingo. We need to be focusing on the kind of team we want to be, not just settle for what we're getting away with, in the moment. At least if we want to become more than just a team who wins a round in the playoffs & then puts up a respectable fight, before succumbing to one of the real contenders...and our core certainly has the potential to become a lot more than that if we take advantage of our unique opportunity.

 

[Hasbro]

I really think for next year the Avs best play would be to put Girard and Makar together from game 1 and not stray away from it.


They're our best shot right now at a legit, 25 minute a night Top pairing. They showed in the playoffs that they're capable of greatness together. They struggled earlier this year but I think a big part of that was just getting used to really playing with each other and the fact both Cale and G were struggling a little during that time when they were together.


For next year, assuming Byram makes the team and we dont add anyone of significance on the back end I'd like to see:


Girard - Makar
Graves - EJ
Byram - Cole



With Byram eventually moving up to replace Graves probably around December or January. And Timmins used as the first callup when EJ or Cole inevitably go down with injury.

Screw that!

Use Timmins and Cole can sit in the press box.