Rumor: 2019-2020 Trade Rumours and Free Agent Discussion Version 10 | Hockey in august , meh not so bad

[Foppa2118]

I don't want DeMelo but at least he's much younger. Giving a 4 year contract to 31 yo Shattenkirk would be really, really, really bad.

If we don't need Letang for 2 years then we sure as f*** don't need Shatty for 4 years.

Yeah I don't want any part of a medium-long term deal for Shattenkirk. Would prefer another type of defenseman to Shatty on a short term deal too.

I don't get why the Avs are so obsessed with him, they're always mentioned in his rumors. If they want to bring in that kind of defenseman, they should just bring back Barrie for likely a bit of a discount.

Neither guy is the type of defenseman the Avs need though. They're both too weak defensively. And Shatty's game could completely fall apart at any moment given his history.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Not necessarily. When Lou Lamoriello traded Jason Arnott and Randy McKay to the Dallas Stars for Joe Nieuwendyk and Jamie Langenbrunner, that was, by Lou's admission, a deal meant to shake things up. They didn't view Nieuwendyk as any sort of "upgrade" to Arnott, and really, Joe being eight years older, shouldn't have been. It worked out huge for the Devils because Langenbrunner hit his prime and became a scoring force for NJ the following season, especially in the playoffs. I can't remember if Pierre Lacroix did anything like that, but it happens in the NHL.

I said “usually”. But thanks for that example.

 

[The Kingslayer]

FWIW it sounds like Clark's opinion, not some insider informations.

That's a relief but it does seem kinda specific no?

 

[The Kingslayer]

I think we need to take a breath before reacting to that remark. I think fitness gets way exaggerated in situations like this. We tend to think that if conditioning is a question then the guy came rolling in on a rascal scooter sporting a beer gut. It's just possible that they just weren't in ideal shape. If indeed Grubauer was the unnamed Avs player who tested positive for COVID-19, then that's doubly bad because that would've seriously affected his training going into this tournament.

They always question fitness and training regimens when injuries pile up like this, and that's fine. But I don't think this was quite the same as what happened with Kase and Pastrnak in Boston.

Stretch those groins, kids!

What happened to Kase and Pasta?

 

[The Kingslayer]

Agreed. He is one of the most over-rated guys in the league. I want nothing to do with him

@Avs_19

 

[Pokecheque]

The more I think about it, the more I fully expect Zach Bogosian to be Byram’s partner on the third pair this coming season.

We don’t deserve nice things.

We'll see if that happens but I'd take Bogosian on this team 100,000,000 X over Cody Ceci. At least with Bogosian you have a guy with size and talent who isn't bereft of puck skill.

I dunno...say what you will but that would not be a horrible signing. They get him short-term on a cheap deal as a depth option, I think that'd be fine. He's showing some offensive upside that I honestly didn't think he had. Someone on the Tampa broadcast, can't remember who, said that Bogosian displayed plenty of puck skill leading up to the draft, but as soon as he made it to the NHL, he was told he needed to be a shutdown guy since he was big and physical, so that's what he did. Cooper is allowing him to do more and he's been good for them. Not saying he's been some huge revelation but that trade is working out way better for the Bolts than I ever would've thought.

Worse-case scenario, he gets injured and someone else takes his place.

 

[Pokecheque]

What happened to Kase and Pasta?

They both landed in Cassidy's doghouse upon arrival to the mini-camp, Cassidy said in the post-series presser that neither guy was right with their conditioning. I really don't know anything about Kase but that doesn't surprise me with Pastrnak--there's a guy who gets by on his astounding talent and very little else.

 

[Pokecheque]

I said “usually”. But thanks for that example.

I get it, most trades are made for the most basic of purposes--but GMs seeking a shakeup will swing those big deals that don't really fill a perceived "need." IMO the whole Kane/Bogosian/Myers deal was more of the shakeup-type deal than it was for practical purposes. In the end that trade ended up not working out for either team.

 

[Foppa2118]

FWIW it sounds like Clark's opinion, not some insider informations.

For Clark's sake I hope that's not true, because then he'd be doing what Dater does too often. Use his assumptions as the basis for his reporting without acknowledging they're his assumptions.

You can't do that as a reporter. When people read what Clark wrote it sounds like he's basing it off insider information. Like someone in the Avs organization mentioning to him that they both had problems with their fitness.

If he didn't mean fitness specifically, and he didn't hear that from someone, he needs to make sure the reader knows that.

 

[Linds]

What about an offer sheet for Mikhail Sergachev?

TB won't be able to afford him if we offer 8 mil over 8 years. We would have to give up our 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks next year but our system is loaded.

He is 22 years old and a legit top pairing Dman. Him and Makar together will be a dominant pairing for the next decade.

Throw in Girard and Byram and our D is set for the next 5 years.

Sergachev - Makar
Girard - EJ
Byram - Z
Cole

Nasty but I like it

 

[Pokecheque]

I don't think Clark would just throw that out there if he didn't have something to back it up.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

FWIW it sounds like Clark's opinion, not some insider informations.

Clark is informed though unlike literally every other person who speculates on this team.

It’s his opinion, but his opinion is likely educated from within.

 

[Foppa2118]

Clark is informed though unlike literally every other person who speculates on this team.

It’s his opinion, but his opinion is likely educated from within.

That's not something for a reporter to opine on without letting the reader know that's what they're doing though.

If he's citing his opinion, or his assumption, he needs to say things like "might have been" or "I think" or something similar. He didn't. He just specifically said their issues centered around fitness not their performance.

If that's his way of telling people Franky was pulled because of an injury, not his on ice performance, then he needs to word that better, because saying their problems were "fitness related" is a specific reason that implies they didn't take care of their body the way they should as pros.

 

[Metallo]

We'll see if that happens but I'd take Bogosian on this team 100,000,000 X over Cody Ceci. At least with Bogosian you have a guy with size and talent who isn't bereft of puck skill.

I dunno...say what you will but that would not be a horrible signing. They get him short-term on a cheap deal as a depth option, I think that'd be fine. He's showing some offensive upside that I honestly didn't think he had. Someone on the Tampa broadcast, can't remember who, said that Bogosian displayed plenty of puck skill leading up to the draft, but as soon as he made it to the NHL, he was told he needed to be a shutdown guy since he was big and physical, so that's what he did. Cooper is allowing him to do more and he's been good for them. Not saying he's been some huge revelation but that trade is working out way better for the Bolts than I ever would've thought.

Worse-case scenario, he gets injured and someone else takes his place.

If this is our off-season get on D, I will be very disapointed. If he’s slotted as a #7, I’m OK with it.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Sergachev is the kind of player I would look to acquire in a Byram package.

A LHD who’s U-26 and can immediately play with Makar, or allow the Avs to play Girard and Makar together on the top pair.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Sergachev is the kind of player I would look to acquire in a Byram package.

A LHD who’s U-26 and can immediately play with Makar, or allow the Avs to play Girard and Makar together on the top pair.

Ooof, I dunno about that.

Byram projects to be a fair bit better than Serg. He was honestly a disappointment for a while before finally starting to build some consistency to his game this year... But I still don't think he ever ends up higher than a 3 and not one that is all that strong in his own zone.

If we are looking at a Dman to pair with Makar on that Left side... Fire an offer sheet at Devon Toews in Long Island. Kid is a stud Defender and would pair so well with Cale. Legit top pairing type of guy and the Island is gonna have some cap problems keeping him and Barzal around I think.


A solid 5-6M OS at Toews would be hard for them to match.

 

[Pokecheque]

If this is our off-season get on D, I will be very disapointed. If he’s slotted as a #7, I’m OK with it.

Bogosian won't take a #7 slot, I don't blame him either if he can find a better role elsewhere. Given his age and injury history he probably doesn't have much left.

Honestly, if you can convince the guy to take on a depth role and thereby make things a little easier on Graves and Byram, there are worse options out there. Talent-wise he's a HUGE upgrade on Zadorov whether people want to admit it or not. The big question is whether or not he can stay healthy, which of course is the big question.

But really, if he signs on for a cheap deal and understands what his role is, then I don't see an issue. Again, I'll take him 11 times out of 10 over Ceci, who I think is a truly mediocre hockey player who would be a DOWNGRADE on Zadorov. Bogosian would not be.

Frankly I'd rather inquire about Byfuglien, who's just plain better, but he's also older and I'm not sure if he even wants to play hockey anymore. If you can get that guy for cheap, hope that ankle of his holds up, and point him in the direction of the best lake in Colorado for fishing, then get him.

 

[Pokecheque]

Sergachev is the kind of player I would look to acquire in a Byram package.

A LHD who’s U-26 and can immediately play with Makar, or allow the Avs to play Girard and Makar together on the top pair.

The only reason you would even consider doing that is if you don't believe in Byram's projected upside.

Sergachev is a perfectly talented player but there are serious flaws in his game.

Also, you don't want Makar and Girard to be a full-time pairing. There's just too much overlap there.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

The only reason you would even consider doing that is if you don't believe in Byram's projected upside.

Sergachev is a perfectly talented player but there are serious flaws in his game.

Also, you don't want Makar and Girard to be a full-time pairing. There's just too much overlap there.

Why would one ever not want that? Every time they are ever on the ice together it is very positive results for the Avs.


The only reason not to put them together would be the lack of any creativity from our Defense after those two come off the ice. But a Bowen Byram and/or Connor Timmins could change that.



The Avs best pairing the last 2 years has been G - Makar, by far.

 

[henchman21]

Sergachev is the kind of player I would look to acquire in a Byram package.

A LHD who’s U-26 and can immediately play with Makar, or allow the Avs to play Girard and Makar together on the top pair.

 

[Metallo]

Bogosian won't take a #7 slot, I don't blame him either if he can find a better role elsewhere. Given his age and injury history he probably doesn't have much left.

Honestly, if you can convince the guy to take on a depth role and thereby make things a little easier on Graves and Byram, there are worse options out there. Talent-wise he's a HUGE upgrade on Zadorov whether people want to admit it or not. The big question is whether or not he can stay healthy, which of course is the big question.

But really, if he signs on for a cheap deal and understands what his role is, then I don't see an issue. Again, I'll take him 11 times out of 10 over Ceci, who I think is a truly mediocre hockey player who would be a DOWNGRADE on Zadorov. Bogosian would not be.

Frankly I'd rather inquire about Byfuglien, who's just plain better, but he's also older and I'm not sure if he even wants to play hockey anymore. If you can get that guy for cheap, hope that ankle of his holds up, and point him in the direction of the best lake in Colorado for fishing, then get him.

Getting Buff on a one-year bonus-ladden contract would be a lot of fun.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Sergachev is the two way version of Zadorov. He's definitely better but his brain keeps him from being a true top pairing guy. He's in a perfect spot in Tampa where Hedman and McDonagh take a lot of responsibility off him. I don't think Cale and Girard would provide the same insulation here.

 

[Pokecheque]

Why would one ever not want that? Every time they are ever on the ice together it is very positive results for the Avs.


The only reason not to put them together would be the lack of any creativity from our Defense after those two come off the ice. But a Bowen Byram and/or Connor Timmins could change that.



The Avs best pairing the last 2 years has been G - Makar, by far.

I totally get that and I am always thrilled to see them on the ice--I'm also thrilled the Avs have a coach who's actually willing to use them in that regard, as a vast majority of NHL bench bosses would likely collapse from fright if they even sat together on the bench.

My personal opinion is that Bednar uses that pairing precisely how it needs to be used. He rolls them out for offensive-zone faceoffs with the top line (and sometimes Kadri snuck in there if he really wants a faceoff win) and they just hold serve on that blue line. They tend to get into trouble if the opposition manages to get the puck into the defensive zone, but it's still worth the risk.

What makes me wary of seeing it be a full-time pairing is that the two of them are similar to the point that it would eat into their strengths a bit. Both of them are expert puckmovers and can be deadly in transition, but only one of them can really do that at a time, the other guy has to hang back a bit and that's not really playing to either guy's game. I'd much rather see them doing their thing on separate pairings at even strength, and break them out for special situations where their skill can be utilized the best.

Mind you, I don't think it's a BAD idea, but I think long-term it would be a mistake to have that just be a regular pairing.

 

[Pokecheque]

To me, trading Byram for Sergachev would be akin to when the Thrashers traded Braydon Coburn for Alexei Zhitnik. You just...don't do trades like that.

If Byram gets traded for anything it should be for a legit #1 defender or some kind of upgrade up front.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I totally get that and I am always thrilled to see them on the ice--I'm also thrilled the Avs have a coach who's actually willing to use them in that regard, as a vast majority of NHL bench bosses would likely collapse from fright if they even sat together on the bench.

My personal opinion is that Bednar uses that pairing precisely how it needs to be used. He rolls them out for offensive-zone faceoffs with the top line (and sometimes Kadri snuck in there if he really wants a faceoff win) and they just hold serve on that blue line. They tend to get into trouble if the opposition manages to get the puck into the defensive zone, but it's still worth the risk.

What makes me wary of seeing it be a full-time pairing is that the two of them are similar to the point that it would eat into their strengths a bit. Both of them are expert puckmovers and can be deadly in transition, but only one of them can really do that at a time, the other guy has to hang back a bit and that's not really playing to either guy's game. I'd much rather see them doing their thing on separate pairings at even strength, and break them out for special situations where their skill can be utilized the best.

Mind you, I don't think it's a BAD idea, but I think long-term it would be a mistake to have that just be a regular pairing.

He was using them together a lot in all situations in that Dallas series. Especially after EJ went down he started relying on those two big time.


They're not just good offensively together either. The creativity and smarte they both bring allow for such well orchestrated and easy zone exits. And Cale has started engaging physically to the point where they arent really even at a major disadvantage in thag regard.


Use them effectively and they are a dominant pairing.