Speculation: 2019-2020 Sharks Roster Discussion Part 11 - Post TDL

[TheWayToRefJose]

I disagree that the whole purpose of the trade is to gain cap to try to sign a forward. There are many reasons to trade Jones and there are many things that the team could get back that could help them as a team. They could trade Jones for a similarly overpaid forward that could be of help to the team. They could trade him for a similarly overpaid defenseman if they have another deal done or lined up to move someone like Burns or Vlasic.

As for Burns, no it will not ever be Seabrook bad because Burns is not Seabrook bad, he's not Seabrook injured, and he's not overpaid to Seabrook's level relative to their deals while also not as restrictive at this point in time. Seabrook has a full NMC for another two seasons then a 5 team list and then a 10 team list. Burns has a three team list throughout his deal and likely has suitors beyond that.

I'm also not expecting that much in a Burns trade to be honest. Chances are, he'd be dealt to the Stars for a late 1st or a prospect like Dellandrea, a mid-round pick or a similarly valued prospect, and a contract like Oleksiak or Johns. That'd be fine.

Say we traded Jones for Lucic retained to make cap hits match, we gain no cap room and then still have to go spend at least 6 million between a new starter and a back up, so we just lost 6 millon in cap room to upgrade on Jones and add a fourth liner.

and moving out Vlasic to move Jones for Vlasic 2.0? That doesn't seem to accomplish anything besides shuffling cap dumps.

Pretty much anything DW can do is borderline useless besides moving out a current player with high value for youth immediately able to step in on an ELC and then using the cap room gained to sign someone good. The burns thing might help a little, but it's not like we're making major strides to compete now or help ourselves out in a couple years in a major fashion.

Trading Jones and Vlasic for other cap dumps is like having 3 leaks on a bucket. You only have two hands and can only block two at a time. Move a hand to block the leaking hole and the one you were covering starts leaking.

DW has backed himself into a hole and has no clear way out. We have no high end prospects, save for Merkley, minimal draft capital, and minimal cap room. We don't have cap room to sign UFAs to plug the holes, don't have the assets to trade for players that can plug the holes and even if we did, we don't have the cap space to trade for said players. You can't fix 3rd to last in the league to being a competitor in one off-season because of that without some extremely drastic and risky moves.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

You would rather spend 2.5 million of cap space for 8 years on a goalie that is no longer with the club? Then spend at the very max 2.7 mil for 4 years? How does this make sense to you?

Would you trade the TBL 1st this year for an extra 1.6 mil in cap room from 2024-2027?
At a 2.7 cap hit for 4 years, he still has a trade cost of 0.775. We'll even say that he's only half as bad as other cap dumps, we're still left with a value of .386, which is a pick in the low 20s.

SEASON	INITIAL BASE SALARY	INITIAL CAP HIT	SIGNING BONUS	BUYOUT COST	POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS	SAVINGS	CAP HIT ( SJS)
2020-21	$4,500,000	$5,750,000	$1,500,000	$1,625,000	$3,125,000	$2,875,000	$2,875,000
2021-22	$5,500,000	$5,750,000	$0	$1,625,000	$1,625,000	$3,875,000	$1,875,000
2022-23	$5,000,000	$5,750,000	$0	$1,625,000	$1,625,000	$3,375,000	$2,375,000
2023-24	$4,500,000	$5,750,000	$0	$1,625,000	$1,625,000	$2,875,000	$2,875,000
2024-25	$0	$0	$0	$1,625,000	$1,625,000	-$1,625,000	$1,625,000
2025-26	$0	$0	$0	$1,625,000	$1,625,000	-$1,625,000	$1,625,000
2026-27	$0	$0	$0	$1,625,000	$1,625,000	-$1,625,000	$1,625,000
2027-28	$0	$0	$0	$1,625,000	$1,625,000	-$1,625,000	$1,625,000

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Say we traded Jones for Lucic retained to make cap hits match, we gain no cap room and then still have to go spend at least 6 million between a new starter and a back up, so we just lost 6 millon in cap room to upgrade on Jones and add a fourth liner.

and moving out Vlasic to move Jones for Vlasic 2.0? That doesn't seem to accomplish anything besides shuffling cap dumps.

Pretty much anything DW can do is borderline useless besides moving out a current player with high value for youth immediately able to step in on an ELC and then using the cap room gained to sign someone good. The burns thing might help a little, but it's not like we're making major strides to compete now or help ourselves out in a couple years in a major fashion.

Trading Jones and Vlasic for other cap dumps is like having 3 leaks on a bucket. You only have two hands and can only block two at a time. Move a hand to block the leaking hole and the one you were covering starts leaking.

DW has backed himself into a hole and has no clear way out. We have no high end prospects, save for Merkley, minimal draft capital, and minimal cap room. We don't have cap room to sign UFAs to plug the holes, don't have the assets to trade for players that can plug the holes and even if we did, we don't have the cap space to trade for said players. You can't fix 3rd to last in the league to being a competitor in one off-season because of that without some extremely drastic and risky moves.

They don’t have to spend six mil on two goalies to address it honestly. Four mil between two goalies would likely at worst do what Jones and Dell were doing under DeBoer.

The contract coming back doesn’t have to be a 4th liner. You’re purposely only considering the worst possible outcome to this sort of situation and I don’t see it that way.

Getting a forward or d-man at 5-6 mil is not necessarily the same as what Vlasic is depending on who it is and at what level. And sometimes you have to shuffle cap dumps in order to get out from under term or get a cheaper overpaid player. It’s why we traded Heatley for Havlat. A few moves to cut a little salary here and there or term here and there creates flexibility to add depth.

Now I’m not saying that a true cap dump deal isn’t a possibility. I threw out in a trade thread with Minnesota what they’d pay for Hertl including the idea of tagging Jones with him and the response from a poster was Dubnyk, Greenway, and a couple 1sts. Yeah you’re not addressing the goaltending or the forward depth nor getting great value out of Hertl since the picks would be mid to late 1sts but getting out from under the term of Jones and saving about 6 mil could help address those things. I’m just saying it’s not the only option. Some dumps work out better on a different team. James Neal was a huge cap dump that was working for Edmonton. I’m just saying not to be dismissive over this because it’s not clear in terms of what’s out there for trades.

A Vlasic deal to Montreal will probably include Alzner and not much else except maybe another contract that makes the dollars pretty even in the immediate but frees them sooner rather than later and that’s important.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

They don’t have to spend six mil on two goalies to address it honestly. Four mil between two goalies would likely at worst do what Jones and Dell were doing under DeBoer.

The contract coming back doesn’t have to be a 4th liner. You’re purposely only considering the worst possible outcome to this sort of situation and I don’t see it that way.

Getting a forward or d-man at 5-6 mil is not necessarily the same as what Vlasic is depending on who it is and at what level. And sometimes you have to shuffle cap dumps in order to get out from under term or get a cheaper overpaid player. It’s why we traded Heatley for Havlat. A few moves to cut a little salary here and there or term here and there creates flexibility to add depth.

Now I’m not saying that a true cap dump deal isn’t a possibility. I threw out in a trade thread with Minnesota what they’d pay for Hertl including the idea of tagging Jones with him and the response from a poster was Dubnyk, Greenway, and a couple 1sts. Yeah you’re not addressing the goaltending or the forward depth nor getting great value out of Hertl since the picks would be mid to late 1sts but getting out from under the term of Jones and saving about 6 mil could help address those things. I’m just saying it’s not the only option. Some dumps work out better on a different team. James Neal was a huge cap dump that was working for Edmonton. I’m just saying not to be dismissive over this because it’s not clear in terms of what’s out there for trades.

A Vlasic deal to Montreal will probably include Alzner and not much else except maybe another contract that makes the dollars pretty even in the immediate but frees them sooner rather than later and that’s important.

There's just no point of trading Jones for a cap dump to replace him with another shitty goalie. We'd have to go out and get someone actually decent for it to be worth paying to move Jones. Go out and get Khudobin and Greiss or something at minimum, and that's probably about 5 mil and has a real possibility of being more of the same with Jones and Dell. I'd rather get a good starter like Lehner for 5 and get whatever NHL quality backup you can for 1m.

And I'm listing the worst examples of cap dumps because what do you think Jones is? Jones is absolutely as bad of a contract as Lucic or at least very close to it. We don't need to waste time to make moves that net us minimal cap space. Making cap space to sign third liners isn't going to make this a playoff team. We need at least one more top 6 forward, if not two, and could use a 2nd pairing D man pretty bad.

There's absolutely no way Hertl and Jones get that package. Jones has wayyyyy wayyyyyyy more negative value that Dubnyk and I'm not sure Hertl returns Greenway and 2 1sts.

Also, what good does a Vlasic for Alzner trade do for the team for next year? I'd make that trade just to get out of the Vlasic contract, but that only frees up 2.5 mil and we'd likely use at least that on another D man and D men in that price range aren't exactly going to be an upgrade over Vlasic on the ice.

None of those trades help the team compete next year in a meaningful way or restock the cupboard for the future. At best, they make some room to sign a couple depth players, squeak in as a wild card for 2-3 years, and get decimated by Vegas or Colorado in the first round every year and then it's time for a scorched earth rebuild that can't even happen because we have nothing of value to trade for a rebuild expect maybe Timo or Hertl.

DW needs to make trades that make a real difference, not just change. There's no point of half assing, selling what little future we have to try to just make a wild card appearance for a couple of years. Either make moves to where we can actually contend and have a real chance or take a down year or two to reload real quick and try it again.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

There's just no point of trading Jones for a cap dump to replace him with another shitty goalie. We'd have to go out and get someone actually decent for it to be worth paying to move Jones. Go out and get Khudobin and Greiss or something at minimum, and that's probably about 5 mil and has a real possibility of being more of the same with Jones and Dell. I'd rather get a good starter like Lehner for 5 and get whatever NHL quality backup you can for 1m.

And I'm listing the worst examples of cap dumps because what do you think Jones is? Jones is absolutely as bad of a contract as Lucic or at least very close to it. We don't need to waste time to make moves that net us minimal cap space. Making cap space to sign third liners isn't going to make this a playoff team. We need at least one more top 6 forward, if not two, and could use a 2nd pairing D man pretty bad.

There's absolutely no way Hertl and Jones get that package. Jones has wayyyyy wayyyyyyy more negative value that Dubnyk and I'm not sure Hertl returns Greenway and 2 1sts.

Also, what good does a Vlasic for Alzner trade do for the team for next year? I'd make that trade just to get out of the Vlasic contract, but that only frees up 2.5 mil and we'd likely use at least that on another D man and D men in that price range aren't exactly going to be an upgrade over Vlasic on the ice.

None of those trades help the team compete next year in a meaningful way or restock the cupboard for the future. At best, they make some room to sign a couple depth players, squeak in as a wild card for 2-3 years, and get decimated by Vegas or Colorado in the first round every year and then it's time for a scorched earth rebuild that can't even happen because we have nothing of value to trade for a rebuild expect maybe Timo or Hertl.

DW needs to make trades that make a real difference, not just change. There's no point of half assing, selling what little future we have to try to just make a wild card appearance for a couple of years. Either make moves to where we can actually contend and have a real chance or take a down year or two to reload real quick and try it again.

I disagree. It's not your preference but that doesn't mean there's no point. The point is to allocate your resources more effectively. Jones for Lucic would save us 500k and one year of term and that's the absolute worst possible outcome to a potential trade and not likely the one that would happen. They don't need to go out and get anyone in particular and certainly not Lehner. Lehner is the exact goalie that teams regret paying a big contract to because the position is just too volatile to invest heavy trade assets, cap dollars, and/or contract length into.

I think you don't get how bad Dubnyk was last year to make that call. Dubnyk was worse than Jones last year. Greenway isn't much in terms of value and those picks while sounding nice will be mid-to-late 1st round picks in successive years. It's nothing to write home about when they can whiff on those picks pretty easily given the positions they'll be in. But you consider doing it because next year is Dubnyk's last year and that opens up space to address things after next season. Something you have to take into account when you want to get out from under bad long term contracts.

If you're only focused on next year then you're only going to exacerbate the issues that got the team into this mess to begin with. Yeah, that may be the likely outcome given that it's DW's job on the line but even he will see the benefits of doing so since replacement level players can be as effective as some of the guys he may be looking to get rid of. For instance, Vlasic is playing like a fringe level top four d-man...and that's being generous honestly. Dumping that horrendous contract for a player you'd buy out after next season and potentially save three mil on if it was a straight swap is a good move for the health of the team's cap situation moving forward. Could let them add $3 mil to the pool to be used to get the depth you're looking for.

I'm not of the belief that this team will compete next year. I'm interested in damage control and flexibility to make it where they can compete better as soon as they can. Keeping Vlasic doesn't help the team compete next year. He just doesn't. Ferraro, Simek, and Davidson would be a more effective group of LHD's than Vlasic, Ferraro, and Simek when you account for cap figures. Jones and Dell could be replaced with Brossoit and Domingue for 3-4 mil combined coming off of bad seasons and be more cost-effective thereby helping the team be more capable of being competitive due to reallocating the saved resources up front than the alternative. This team has to do numerous moves to save a mil or two here and there to get the amount they need to get the adds that would make them more competitive. And I happen to think that goaltending is the position you can go cheap in and still be effective and Vlasic is the least effective of our big ticket players that could be replaced on the cheap while losing minimal effectiveness at worst.

The reality is that there is no realistic suggestion that you could throw out here that would qualify as to what you'd want to make this team competitive next year. Buying out Jones is a bad idea since you're only saving 3 mil next year which is eaten up by whoever you get to replace him. And if you do it with Lehner, chances are you're in the same spot in two or three years given how easy it is for goalies to go off the rails.

 

[Patty Ice]

If SJ is taking back cap in a Jones trade, that defeats the purpose of the trade. The whole point of getting rid of him is to gain cap to try to sign a forward. Saving 2 mil in cap probably isn't going to move the needle much.

No the whole point of getting rid of Jones is to get rid of the worst goalie in the league.

 

[hohosaregood]

No the whole point of getting rid of Jones is to get the worst goalie in the league.

Uhh I don't know how we could get worse.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Uhh I don't know how we could get worse.

It's hard to get worse results from another goalie but even if we did, chances are it'd be on a better contract to give the team more flexibility for other things. I'm alright with either taking a dump back or giving up a good asset to clear more cap space but I know there are multiple ways to address a lot of these potential moves.

 

[Patty Ice]

Uhh I don't know how we could get worse.

Sorry that was a brutal use of the English language on my part

Get rid of is what I mean . Not to get the worst goalie. The Sharks already have that.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

It took a first to dump Patty at 6 million for one year when he was still a useful player, albeit overpaid. Jones has been the worst starter in the league for 2 straight years and has the 12th highest cap hit of any goalie and still has another 4 years on his contract. Even with retention, it'll probably still take a 1st to move his contract. He's also still owed 21 of a 23 million cap hit, so it's not even useful to teams that want to reach the cap floor and not pay out real money. 10 games of average play isn't going to make people forget about the 2 solid years of .896 save percentage and a -37.88 goals saved above average over the past two years. Even if we retained and traded him, We'd have to eat at least 1 mil + whatever his replacement cost and we're even in cap room and probably loose an important asset.

The Sharks currently only have 2 top 4 Defenseman. Maybe 3 if you count Simek, but he didn't look like it last year. They absolutely would need to spend 4-5 mil to get another player like Dillon who can step in the top 4. Which D prospects are you talking about? Middleton? Desimone? Roy? Meloche? None of them are starting quality on an NHL team. Knyazev has almost no chance of being NHL quality coming straight out of the Q. Hatakka is probably at least another year or two away. Merkley probably needs a year in the AHL. Pasichnuk might be able to step in right away, but probably not the best idea to roll into the season with him penciled in to a starting role. As you saw last year with the forwards, betting on these kinds of players to step in immediately is a huge mistake.

If a contender is sending a 1st + good prospect back for burns, they're also sending back a cap dump because what contender has 8+ mil in cap space available? They would have to send a major contract back our way. None of that even factors in his contract length, which I'd imagine lowers his return a good amount. So, at best we probably gain 3-4 mil in cap room? Great. Now we only have 1 top 4 D man, not enough cap room to sign one, and not enough assets to acquire a young, cost controlled top 4 d man.

Let me stop you at patty. Non starter comparison wise. Not even in the same category at all.

 

[thrillermiller89]

Blow it up...

To Dallas:
Burns
Rights to Thornton

To SJ:
Hintz
Johns
Harley
2020 1st

To Buffalo:
Couture
Jones

To SJ:
Kyle Okposo
Carter Hutton
2020 1st

To NJ:
Evander Kane

To SJ:
Their least valuable 2020 1st

To Montreal:
Vlasic
TB 1st

To SJ:
Alzner
2020 1st (could be top 10)

 

[themelkman]

Blow it up...

To Dallas:
Burns
Rights to Thornton

To SJ:
Hintz
Johns
Harley
2020 1st

To Buffalo:
Couture
Jones

To SJ:
Kyle Okposo
Carter Hutton
2020 1st

To NJ:
Evander Kane

To SJ:
Their least valuable 2020 1st

To Montreal:
Vlasic
TB 1st

To SJ:
Alzner
2020 1st (could be top 10)

I hardly see a reason to trade Jones and Vlasic if we blow it up. It would only cost us assets to move them and they wont be a factor by the time the rebuild would be done.

 

[thrillermiller89]

I hardly see a reason to trade Jones and Vlasic if we blow it up. It would only cost us assets to move them and they wont be a factor by the time the rebuild would be done.

Moving Jones helps us get back a 30-40 point player with a RHS. Maybe Okposo becomes a top 6 player again? Who knows. Otherwise, his term is one year less than Jones. So he fits better with any future plans in my opinion.

Moving Vlasic for Alzner is cap dump for cap dump. But Alzner is far less term, and swapping 1st round picks is a win.

Just spit balling ideas to get 1st's and cap flexibility.

 

[Mafoofoo]

Blow it up...

To Dallas:
Burns
Rights to Thornton

To SJ:
Hintz
Johns
Harley
2020 1st

To Buffalo:
Couture
Jones

To SJ:
Kyle Okposo
Carter Hutton
2020 1st

To NJ:
Evander Kane

To SJ:
Their least valuable 2020 1st

To Montreal:
Vlasic
TB 1st

To SJ:
Alzner
2020 1st (could be top 10)

If you're trying to make EK65 feel comfortable since all he's known is being at the bottom of the standings the team already did that this season.

 

[thrillermiller89]

If you're trying to make EK65 feel comfortable since all he's known is being at the bottom of the standings the team already did that this season.

I'd rather move on from an aging core of Couture, Vlasic, Kane, and (regrettably) Burns. Yes I'm fully aware Kane isn't that old, and that Karlsson is a year older than him. But EK's contract is probably not something we move right now.

Focus on Hertl, Meier, Karlsson, and the plethora of 1st's acquired through the moves mentioned above. Cap flexibility for more depth, and money for a better goalie.

 

[tiburon12]

I was thinking a lot about Columbus recently and how they squeaked out some success despite being crippled by injury, mostly due to coaching. Even with a healthy roster, I think the Sharks had more talent than the Jackets this year (include Goodrow and Dillon in this convo), but the Jackets played a much better system catered to the realities of their roster. I see that as a coaching issue and think with better coaching the Sharks could have been near the real 16-team playoffs, if not in (this does not mean a legit contender).

I have some optimism that next season the coaching staff, whoever that may be and with whatever players are on the roster, will have a more suitable gameplan to hide their weaknesses and highlight their strengths, given all this extra time. All this off-time means the team will start fresh when they get back on the ice as a group.

Based on our roster now, I think a defensive system that applies constant pressure to the puck carrier, much like the successful PK does, use that pressure the direct the play to the perimeter, and use body positioning to clear a path for Jones to see the puck. I think a big reason why Jones gave up so many long-range goals this year was because there was always too much traffic in front. Guys who attempted to block shots were counter-productive most of the time.

Once we get the puck, we have the best zone-exit player in the league in Karlsson, a top-puck moving defenseman in Burns (though he does throw any errant passes...), and a guy like Ferraro who has wheels and can use them to buy time on a breakout.

Offensively, i think we should adopt a strong forecheck like CBJ perfected. Hertl, Kane, and Meier are all excellent physical forecheckers with good sticks, and all have the wheels to get back in the play defensively. They also have the offensive talent to make the most of chance opportunities off turnovers. We dont have the speed to play a run and gun style offense, but we do have the down low strength and the elite offensive D to run a successful cycle.

We also need our forwards to play into a cycle that see's Karlsson and Burns be way more active and to give them free range to roam the O zone. Many times this year forwards did not cover the point or accept they had to act as a D man and we got burned on odd-man rushes. Ottawa did this very well with Karlsson.

This is just a suggestion of what could happen, but i think the overall point remains there there is enough talent on this roster where the right coaching strategy can cover for Jones and provide enough offense to win games.

If we have to accept that next season will not be one where the Sharks are elite, i'd rather they be boring and grind out wins than be exciting and lose

 

[Le Rosbeef]

Blow it up...

To Dallas:
Burns
Rights to Thornton

To SJ:
Hintz
Johns
Harley
2020 1st

To Buffalo:
Couture
Jones

To SJ:
Kyle Okposo
Carter Hutton
2020 1st

To NJ:
Evander Kane

To SJ:
Their least valuable 2020 1st

To Montreal:
Vlasic
TB 1st

To SJ:
Alzner
2020 1st (could be top 10)

I can't speak for any Dallas fans, of course, but I suspect that first trade would be ...erm, a "tough sell" for them. They'd be taking on a lot of salary, giving up Hintz (who has been superb), a high end D prospect in Harley, whose stock has risen, let alone the other bits.

The NJ one, I don't see why they'd give up a 1st for Kane.

And the other two, I wouldn't touch at all. Okposo is done, so that's a brutal return for Couture (Hutton is no upgrade) and that TB pick has much more value than you're giving credit for with the right scouting - certainly not worth saving $2m and getting an AHLer back for and leaving a hole in our top 4 D.

 

[thrillermiller89]

I can't speak for any Dallas fans, of course, but I suspect that first trade would be ...erm, a "tough sell" for them. They'd be taking on a lot of salary, giving up Hintz (who has been superb), a high end D prospect in Harley, whose stock has risen, let alone the other bits.

The NJ one, I don't see why they'd give up a 1st for Kane.

And the other two, I wouldn't touch at all. Okposo is done, so that's a brutal return for Couture (Hutton is no upgrade) and that TB pick has much more value than you're giving credit for with the right scouting - certainly not worth saving $2m and getting an AHLer back for and leaving a hole in our top 4 D.

I don't see the Dallas one being tough to sell. If Harley needs to be swapped for something of slightly lesser value so be it. The main pieces are Hintz and the 1st.

Kane is worth a 1st, albeit a very late one. If not a 1st from NJ then surely one from another team. If not, two 2nd's could get it done.

The return for Couture isn't Okposo. The return for Couture is a top 10 pick from Buffalo. The other pieces are swapping Jones for Okposo and Hutton (less term for Okposo as opposed to Jones).

Swapping Vlasic for Alzner is a loss for us. But swapping TB's 1st for MTL's 1st is a win. Plus we get immediate cap relief and long term cap flexibility.

Sometimes the most valuable asset in any trade is cap space.

 

[CupfortheSharks]

Trading away much of the Sharks core for futures is just not realistic. DW and Hasso have both clearly stated that the Sharks are going to try and compete next year.

I personally think the rumblings of a disjointed locker room are true. That’s the first thing that needs to be fixed.

 

[thrillermiller89]

Trading away much of the Sharks core for futures is just not realistic. DW and Hasso have both clearly stated that the Sharks are going to try and compete next year.

I personally think the rumblings of a disjointed locker room are true. That’s the first thing that needs to be fixed.

Agreed. A rebuild WON'T happen. Not this coming year anyway.

And I agree that the locker room is probably off. My first vote is an established veteran coach (Gallant or Laviolette). If we stick with Boog, I'll take a year away from hockey. Boog is not a winner. Go ask Florida Panther fans.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I don't see the Dallas one being tough to sell. If Harley needs to be swapped for something of slightly lesser value so be it. The main pieces are Hintz and the 1st.

Kane is worth a 1st, albeit a very late one. If not a 1st from NJ then surely one from another team. If not, two 2nd's could get it done.

The return for Couture isn't Okposo. The return for Couture is a top 10 pick from Buffalo. The other pieces are swapping Jones for Okposo and Hutton (less term for Okposo as opposed to Jones).

Swapping Vlasic for Alzner is a loss for us. But swapping TB's 1st for MTL's 1st is a win. Plus we get immediate cap relief and long term cap flexibility.

Sometimes the most valuable asset in any trade is cap space.

curious why the Habs would entertain that trade?

 

[themelkman]

curious why the Habs would entertain that trade?

Clearly they wouldnt. However lets not start here. You already stirred things up enough on the main board Vlasic thread.

 

[OrrNumber4]

The optics of trading Kane or Couture would be really bad right now.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Blow it up...

To Dallas:
Burns
Rights to Thornton

To SJ:
Hintz
Johns
Harley
2020 1st

To Buffalo:
Couture
Jones

To SJ:
Kyle Okposo
Carter Hutton
2020 1st

To NJ:
Evander Kane

To SJ:
Their least valuable 2020 1st

To Montreal:
Vlasic
TB 1st

To SJ:
Alzner
2020 1st (could be top 10)

This is just terrible on all levels and frankly won't happen anywhere other than xbox. I guess if that's your dream go ahead but not sure what we're supposed to do with it here.

I don't see the Dallas one being tough to sell. If Harley needs to be swapped for something of slightly lesser value so be it. The main pieces are Hintz and the 1st.

Kane is worth a 1st, albeit a very late one. If not a 1st from NJ then surely one from another team. If not, two 2nd's could get it done.

The return for Couture isn't Okposo. The return for Couture is a top 10 pick from Buffalo. The other pieces are swapping Jones for Okposo and Hutton (less term for Okposo as opposed to Jones).

Swapping Vlasic for Alzner is a loss for us. But swapping TB's 1st for MTL's 1st is a win. Plus we get immediate cap relief and long term cap flexibility.

Sometimes the most valuable asset in any trade is cap space.

Kane is the leading goal scorer on this team since he became a Shark. He's going no where. That you think he's only worth a late 1st at best is terrible talent evaluation. It's stuff like this that makes me relieved that DW is in charge and not anyone here.

The optics of trading Kane or Couture would be really bad right now.

No doubt. Couture is very moveable though especially if he bring back a better player. They don't have a reason to move Kane though unless it's to bring back someone elite. Right now he's the best winger on the team.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

The optics of trading Kane or Couture would be really bad right now.

Depends on the trade. Selling them off just to get rid of them would be a bad look. Making a good deal to address team needs would be fine but I doubt DW has any real interest in moving either.