2019-20 Tampa Bay Lightning Team Struggles

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

I thought we could use a civil thread where we could have thoughtful conversations and discuss the teams struggles and issues.
Can we keep this reasonable and realistic? Ex. No Cooper isn’t going to get fired this year.

I believe and I know we have a deep team. We have the pieces to win the Stanley Cup. ( It's not like we are getting blown out of games)
So what are our current issues? How easy are they to fix?

Click to read more...

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

1. I will start by saying our biggest issue is Kucherov. Yes, he has the talent, but he’s also losing us games. 5 on 5 the puck is constantly dying on his stick.
(I feel like part of Brayden’s issue this year is being stuck with Kucherov. When Kuch went down last game Point actually looked pretty good.)

2. Right wing forward depth is an issue. It’s evident Verhaeghe can’t play in the NHL and the team will need to address this. With Verhaeghe and Joseph on our RW we just don’t have enough.

3. The first line/top 6: I can’t see this first line being effective. I would like to know their 5 on 5 stats from last year. IMO the coaching staff knows this and tried to address it with new line combos, that evidently didn’t work. If the coaching staff thought long and hard about this in the offseason why can’t we keep trying?

4. We need to get Tyler Johnson going. I would like to see him as the 2C or on the Cirelli and Killorn line at RW.

5. Stylistically we appear to be in a bit of a rut. This is on the Coaching Staff and right or wrong we have no choice but to trust them to get us going.

 

[Letsgobolts21]

It's been a bit of a moving target. Early it was bad special teams combined with too many penalties. Lately that's improved and their PP is now top 2 and the PK is still bottom 10, but it is improving.

Their GF/GP is 5th so not bad, but the GA/GP is 7th (don't want to be high in this one) and their shots against per game is also bad at 4th. I think the mantra going into this year was suppressing shots, better in D zone, etc.--but so far it's not working. The quotes from last night make it sound like they think it will work, but certainly not there yet.

And the Goalie Sv % is below league average. Vasi is 35th in the league right now. I don't know if that's system or what, but it's not good--that's for sure. There are some big names worse than him, but we need him to be better.

A more methodical system is not what this team is. I hope I'm proven wrong and this new system produces results soon, but I think it's boring and has sapped our speed and creativity which is where our advantage was.

It needs to turn soon--at Hawks will be tough (they have played much better lately), Ducks give us fits at home, then home for Buff and St. Louis and then at Caps, home for Carolina on a B2B. Based on how we are playing right now, that feels like 2-2-2.

 

[CupsOverCash]

I think they need to get some confidence and they need to get some positive momentum going. Would also help if our top players could regain their form. Point and Kucherov dont look anywhere close to as good as they did last year. Thats not the biggest difference between last year and now but it definitely counts. Vasi also hasnt been himself this year. He was sooo good last year and we had many wins where he bailed the team out. This year he hasnt been as good with that. Special teams hasnt been as good as we have allowed quite a few PP goals this year and has killed us in a few games this year.

I agree with people saying we shouldnt be changing our system right now. I think right now we should be trying to stack up wins and make sure we are in the playoffs. Then we can tinker. For some reason they are so hell bent on being able to play a style that doesnt fit them. I think the last two playoff series has shaken this team to the core and they are not wanting to have a team like CBJ, WSH, beat us the way they did. They were embarrassed.

I think we could use a new HC. It feels like the guys are just kind of tired of him if their play is any indication. Wouldnt be surprised if they have kind of tuned him out in ways and that has lead to some dysfunction out there. I do think Cooper can win with this team if they all buy in at the same time and are in sync at the playoffs. I just think Cooper needs to be better when things matter.

Speaking of when things matter our best players have not been our best players when things matter. I think Stamkos has been pretty good effort wise but I think he is still a bit of a liability defensively when out there. Hes a minus 8 now and that could be more of a result of the musical chairs that have been played as far as his linemates go but I feel like we are always doing that with Stamkos. Why cant we find an effective line for Stamkos? Could really use his line to get going with the Point/Kucherov line.

Defensively we arent as organized in our own end. I think part of that has been Hedman being out but even when in early in the year he wasnt at his best. I think Brian Bradley said it last year after the sweep, they didnt have their best player Hedman is why they got swept. I know thats not why we got swept but I think he makes a great point about Hedman being our best player. When he is on, wow our team is good.

Conclusion:
Best players need to step up
Cooper needs to find this teams identity or he needs to go
Vasi needs to be better.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

In The case of our best players needing to step up I think ouch is dragging point down.

1. Constantly turning puck over in the O zone.

2. Point likes to play more of a heavy style and kuch is the complete opposite. This is why Yanni and Brayden worked so well In the past

 

[Vasilevskiy]

They are trying to play like something they are not. This team is all about speed, skill, creativity and the only thing they lack is consistently giving a full game effort.

The team is not adapting to the unnecesary system changes and needs to go back to what worked before it's too late.

To me it's obvious that guys are not enjoying the regular season, both because of what happened last year and because of the new system.

 

[Letsgobolts21]

One overlooked aspect is they have played only 7 "home" games--I put that in quotes because 1 of those home games was in Sweden--so really only 6 home games. But they are only 3-2-1 in those 6 games. I think they are winless against the West so far---yep--0-3-1 against the West (really only the central) and are 0-2-1 against the Central at home. May not mean much, but at least they aren't where they are with having only played 6-7 road games.

 

[waterboy65]

This team is generally not built for play-off hockey due to lack of size and grit in the top players! But asking them to play a dump and chase system is even a bigger mistake! They are built for speed and need to play that way! Last year's playoff debacle was more about the injuries to Hedman and Stralman and Vasy stinking up the joint rather than our wide open system failing!

We do need the lazy plays and stupid passes to stop but it needs to be done within the context of the old system. None of our current players are going to add 3 inches and 30 pounds so playing a dump and chase system with a team full of midgets who are unable to consistently win board battles just wont work!

 

[Todd1a]

This team is generally not built for play-off hockey due to lack of size and grit in the top players! But asking them to play a dump and chase system is even a bigger mistake! They are built for speed and need to play that way! Last year's playoff debacle was more about the injuries to Hedman and Stralman and Vasy stinking up the joint rather than our wide open system failing!

We do need the lazy plays and stupid passes to stop but it needs to be done within the context of the old system. None of our current players are going to add 3 inches and 30 pounds so playing a dump and chase system with a team full of midgets who are unable to consistently win board battles just wont work!

CAn someone text this to cooper ?

 

[CupsOverCash]

In The case of our best players needing to step up I think ouch is dragging point down.

1. Constantly turning puck over in the O zone.

2. Point likes to play more of a heavy style and kuch is the complete opposite. This is why Yanni and Brayden worked so well In the past

Even though they could drive me nuts sometimes, I think Kuch should go back to play with Stammer for a while. Remember that duo worked well a couple years back and Point, Gourde and Johnson worked well together. However it would suck to break up the 4th line but I think its more important that we get our top players going.

Palat Stamkos Kucherov
Gourde Point Johnson
Killorn Cirelli Joseph
Maroon Paq X

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Even though they could drive me nuts sometimes, I think Kuch should go back to play with Stammer for a while. Remember that duo worked well a couple years back and Point, Gourde and Johnson worked well together. However it would suck to break up the 4th line but I think its more important that we get our top players going.

Palat Stamkos Kucherov
Gourde Point Johnson
Killorn Cirelli Joseph
Maroon Paq X

love the lines but I think it’s a big mistake to break up our current 4th line.

both Maroon and Gourde were garbage before this happened

 

[CupsOverCash]

love the lines but I think it’s a big mistake to break up our current 4th line.

both Maroon and Gourde were garbage before this happened

I dont want to break them up either but I want to get Stamkos, Kucher, and Point going. When those three are on we are tough to beat.

 

[Tampacuseforever]

This team is generally not built for play-off hockey due to lack of size and grit in the top players! But asking them to play a dump and chase system is even a bigger mistake! They are built for speed and need to play that way! Last year's playoff debacle was more about the injuries to Hedman and Stralman and Vasy stinking up the joint rather than our wide open system failing!

We do need the lazy plays and stupid passes to stop but it needs to be done within the context of the old system. None of our current players are going to add 3 inches and 30 pounds so playing a dump and chase system with a team full of midgets who are unable to consistently win board battles just wont work!

Yes Yes Yes we don’t have the personal to play a heavy game. Adding some bottom six bigger players does not help the fact that our core top six players are small.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

I dont want to break them up either but I want to get Stamkos, Kucher, and Point going. When those three are on we are tough to beat.

*** Stamkos Kuch
Palat Point Johnson
Killorn Cirelli Jospeh
Maroon Paquette Gourde


I mean this works for me and allows us not to break up our best line.

I can’t stress enough how bad Maroon and Gourde were before this new “4th line”

 

[RegularSznAllStars]

We suck

 

[Felonious Python]

They are trying to play like something they are not. This team is all about speed, skill, creativity and the only thing they lack is consistently giving a full game effort.

The team is not adapting to the unnecesary system changes and needs to go back to what worked before it's too late.

To me it's obvious that guys are not enjoying the regular season, both because of what happened last year and because of the new system.

Seemed pretty necessary after getting swept.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

Seemed pretty necessary after getting swept.

A natural reaction but that was a fluke, and could have been avoided with better adjustments between games. Changing the system is an overkill and it's not working.

 

[Tampacuseforever]

Seemed pretty necessary after getting swept.

They needed to adjust the core. JBB and coop are too invested in the core to see the obvious. Complacency has set in !!!

 

[CupsOverCash]

A natural reaction but that was a fluke, and could have been avoided with better adjustments between games. Changing the system is an overkill and it's not working.

And if Hedman was healthy. Dont know if we would have won the series with our guys 100% but doubt we are swept.

 

[LightningStrikes]

They needed to adjust the core. JBB and coop are too invested in the core to see the obvious. Complacency has set in !!!

TBF is tough as hell to adjust a team’s core. Especially in a salary cap world and when all of them have NTCs and NMCs - like in our case.

 

[Tampacuseforever]

TBF is tough as hell to adjust a team’s core. Especially in a salary cap world and when all of them have NTCs and NMCs - like in our case.

I agree but you heard them they think the core is fine. We are not blowing it up. NTC generally mean that the player has control over where they go. Having Johnson gourde and point in the top six was crazy. They could have traded Gourde and kept miller if it was size and toughness that they wanted, and this was the style of play they were going to resort to.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Watch Brayden Point look a lot better tonight not being hauled down by kucherov

 

[LTIR Trickery]

They need one more defender and potentially a forward. Coburn needs to be the bottom pairing guy, Schenn/Rutta need to sit. Shattenkirk needs his minutes cut a bit and needs to be paired with the right kind of player. Joseph needs to get the puck in the net.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Not that it really is that huge of a deal to a team that won 62 games the year before but was looking at our schedule last year compared to this one. Last years schedule was a lot easier as Im looking through both. Our first 2 months consisted of:

FL
Van
CBJ
Car
Det
@Min
@CHI
@Col
@LV
@AZ
NJ
NAS
@Mon
@OTT
EDM
NYI
OTT
@Buf
@pit
@Phi
@NAS
FL
CHI
NJ
ANA
BUF

I would take that schedule compared to ours this year. We also played consistently and didnt have long breaks. I think the schedule has been a little brutal this year and it looks like it doesnt really let up. Its going to continue to be a tough season in my opinion unless the guys can find their magic from last year.

 

[DFC]

I reject the premise that Cooper can't be fired this year.