2019/20 Roster Thread XXI

[deadhead]

As usual people are way overreacting.

We know this team should have been blown up after 2011-12, when they looked like an old washed up team in the playoffs.
They snuck by a Penguins team having an off season, then got trounced by the Devils.
Instead, Holmgren twiddles his thumbs for two years before turning the rebuild over to Hextall.

Didn't matter who you hired as HC (see Berube in Philly, St Louis) - those two years reduced the trade value of a half dozen veterans - look at the Rangers, when they bit the bullet they went whole hog into a rebuild. This meant it was going to be a long rebuild.

You can't buy your way into contention the way Holmgren did a decade ago. We played a lot of bad players b/c that's what we had in the organization - the cupboard was bare and the cap maxed out.

But Hextall patiently turned it around, there's lot's of talent coming the next 2-3 years, some this fall, some this spring, a lot next fall.
[A little luck would be nice, Patrick's problems are par for the course for the Flyers it seems]
Let's see what AV can do with this team before surrendering to despair.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Non-team game? They fully bought into and tried to execute what Hakstol and Gordon preached.

Nah. They had multiple guys freelancing & ignoring systems, & multiple guys too slow or lazy to forecheck/backcheck correctly.

 

[FlyerNutter]

As usual people are way overreacting.

We know this team should have been blown up after 2011-12, when they looked like an old washed up team in the playoffs.
They snuck by a Penguins team having an off season, then got trounced by the Devils.
Instead, Holmgren twiddles his thumbs for two years before turning the rebuild over to Hextall.

Didn't matter who you hired as HC (see Berube in Philly, St Louis) - those two years reduced the trade value of a half dozen veterans - look at the Rangers, when they bit the bullet they went whole hog into a rebuild. This meant it was going to be a long rebuild.

You can't buy your way into contention the way Holmgren did a decade ago. We played a lot of bad players b/c that's what we had in the organization - the cupboard was bare and the cap maxed out.

But Hextall patiently turned it around, there's lot's of talent coming the next 2-3 years, some this fall, some this spring, a lot next fall.
[A little luck would be nice, Patrick's problems are par for the course for the Flyers it seems]
Let's see what AV can do with this team before surrendering to despair.

Hextall did very little to turn things around beyond sitting on his ass and MAINLY drafting when it was his turn.

He tried to play the line between a full rebuild and staying competitive. Absolute nonsense imo.

He brought a lot of quantity in terms of prospects, but where is the true elite high end replacements for the old core/Giroux?

f*** him. Coward.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Nah. They had multiple guys freelancing & ignoring systems, & multiple guys too slow or lazy to forecheck/backcheck correctly.

Yeah, that was what Gordon's "system" was. He preaches disorganized stretch-pass hockey, with minimal cohesion between forwards and dmen in their own end.

 

[deadhead]

They bought into Hakstol's system, how else did they get 98 points two years ago with bad goaltending. (Yes, the stars were good, but not THAT good, Kane couldn't carry the Blackhawks, it's still a team game).

I think last year the goaltending was so awful the first half the team just gave up - it's hard to play with intensity when you work your butt off, only to watch your goalie give up a couple softies. Players are human. We saw the same in St Louis until Binnington took over.

When Gordon took over, Hart allowed them to free lance and get away with it, but when he got injured, the flaws in that approach soon became evident. That's when the defensive discipline Hakstol had established broke down.

Now AV is going to push them to play his scheme correctly, and as Hayes will tell you, he doesn't abide half-assed effort.
I think if they struggle out of the gate, it will be due to thinking too much and being half a stride slow, which will cure itself over time.
Anyone who consistently puts out mediocre effort will probably have a new address in February or July at the latest.

 

[deadhead]

He brought a lot of quantity in terms of prospects, but where is the true elite high end replacements for the old core/Giroux?

**** him. Coward.

There are only three ways to get high end players:
1) draft at the top of the draft, we only had two shots, #7 Provorov, #2 Patrick. Some bad luck with Patrick
2) develop guys later in the draft, we have some potential stars in Hart, Farabee, Frost, TK, Sanheim, Myers, and solid prospects in Lindblom, York, Rubtsov, Brink.
3) trade with Edmonton, but that well may be dry.

 

[Beef Invictus]

They bought into Hakstol's system, how else did they get 98 points two years ago with bad goaltending. (Yes, the stars were good, but not THAT good, Kane couldn't carry the Blackhawks, it's still a team game).

I think last year the goaltending was so awful the first half the team just gave up - it's hard to play with intensity when you work your butt off, only to watch your goalie give up a couple softies. Players are human. We saw the same in St Louis until Binnington took over.

When Gordon took over, Hart allowed them to free lance and get away with it, but when he got injured, the flaws in that approach soon became evident. That's when the defensive discipline Hakstol had established broke down.

Now AV is going to push them to play his scheme correctly, and as Hayes will tell you, he doesn't abide half-assed effort.
I think if they struggle out of the gate, it will be due to thinking too much and being half a stride slow, which will cure itself over time.
Anyone who consistently puts out mediocre effort will probably have a new address in February or July at the latest.

I don't understand how you can bring yourself to judge Gordon in less than 289 games.

 

[Rebels57]

Why has Philadelphia gone so soft in the past years? Who's to blame? As an old school fan it hurts to see.

Hire me as GM. I'll put an all guns blazing team on the ice. 7-5 wins, and a forth line of goons. Anyone not willing to drop the gloves, or block a shot with his face, better be ppg or he's going to the minors.

First we'll tank for Matt Savoie 2022, then we'll go for SC before 2025.

Not a Flyers fan btw. Just doing this out of sheer empathy.

 

[Starat327]

I don't understand how you can bring yourself to judge Gordon in less than 289 games.

By my count, Gordon gets AT LEAST another 230 games or so, right?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

They bought into Hakstol's system, how else did they get 98 points two years ago with bad goaltending. (Yes, the stars were good, but not THAT good, Kane couldn't carry the Blackhawks, it's still a team game).

I think last year the goaltending was so awful the first half the team just gave up - it's hard to play with intensity when you work your butt off, only to watch your goalie give up a couple softies. Players are human. We saw the same in St Louis until Binnington took over.

When Gordon took over, Hart allowed them to free lance and get away with it, but when he got injured, the flaws in that approach soon became evident. That's when the defensive discipline Hakstol had established broke down.

Now AV is going to push them to play his scheme correctly, and as Hayes will tell you, he doesn't abide half-assed effort.
I think if they struggle out of the gate, it will be due to thinking too much and being half a stride slow, which will cure itself over time.
Anyone who consistently puts out mediocre effort will probably have a new address in February or July at the latest.

At one point they mostly bought into Hakstol’s system. A few guys unraveled last season, & players are on record as admitting it.

 

[SnS]

The one about offering a PTO to “someone who can at least move?”

Like who else who was on PTO? Matt Read? Zac Rinaldo? AMac?

And Stewart can move. His skating isn’t nearly as bad as some make it out to be.

He’s not a goon. He had 10 goals in 54 games just 2 years ago. And he does offer size which is something they’re deficient in. So for a wildcard spare PTO option, it made sense. The fuss about it is ridiculously overblown. Some people just have a strong bias against big, physical players.

I’m of the opinion that a snail would be more movable than Stewart. He’s cooked.
I would have preferred Read if we’re actually looking for a player.

 

[DancingPanther]

Captain's Log: 10/3/19

It's been almost 10 months since the chains were broken, however some people still defend Dale Highskull to the death. When will the madness end?

 

[KrazyKat]

I think I may be the only one who agrees with everything.

Although I do think Farabee should be playing sooner than later.

Hagg should be gone as well. But I’d rather him be a #7.

Morin looked responsible in his own end. And is finally getting his shot.

Myers has some down games and he has some major upside. But looked a bit shakey on some plays. I think he will be back very soon.


But to start the year. I think it’s perfect. Let the veterans get used to the system. Give some guys a shot to prove themselves. Put some size on our back end. And a tenacious 4th line.

Frosty and Myers will get their shots sooner than later. Trust me.

Also people need to relax. We havnt even played 1 real game yet. And people already complaining. Give it to about Christmas. Let things settle in. After that we can judge.

Go flyers!

 

[Tripod]

Captain's Log: 10/3/19

It's been almost 10 months since the chains were broken, however some people still defend Dale Highskull to the death. When will the madness end?

Are you from the future?

 

[DancingPanther]

Are you from the future?

yes. it doesn't get any better

 

[Strawberry Fields]

New goal in life is to own an expansion NHL team and hire Beukeboom and Hatcher as my coach-GM combo.

 

[Tripod]

yes. it doesn't get any better

 

[Strawberry Fields]

yes. it doesn't get any better

It's getting better all the time. It can't get no worse.

 

[phlocky]

success and failure at this level are not razor thin . Maybe razor thin between winning a cup and not winning a cup but we are not at that point where we have to worry about razor thin margins. I personally believe that this year is an evaluation year for this core. Fletch did what he thought he could to make this as competitive of a team this year and make the playoffs. If we fail to make the playoffs I could see some big changes .

Winning is a bad minset. Stanley cups are the proper mindset. Its one of the reasons why i hated the fletcher signing, because it is obvious he is a dave scott puppet who wants to put butts in the seats now. Winning now mindset is brining up carter hart before we know if he can handle an nhl season, and put the whole ****ing season on his back. Winning now mindset is Signing Kevin Hayes to a life long contract which further complicates our future at that position. Winning now mindset is trading for Braun.

**** winning now. Plan your cup window, and then go for it.

I know people were frustrated with Ron for NOT making moves to "win now" but I agreed with him. Trying to "win now" when Hart was still in juniors, Sanheim was a rookie, Myers still had a long way to go and Morin was out for half the season makes going for it now just dumb. Our young defenders need time to mature before they will really be a dominant defense. We aren't giving Hart the chance to adjust to the pro game modestly, we are throwing him to the wolves.

While I do believe we needed to add one top 4 dman (Trouba would have been perfect but that wasn't happening) but adding 2 dman to a team that has youngsters knocking on the door was just stupid. I hated the Hayes signing from day one and said it would come back to bite us in the ass and it already has.

Hate that Hextall wouldn't make trades for now all you want but he certainly wouldn't have made the moves that have our hands tied the way they are right now.

 

[Jtown]

I know people were frustrated with Ron for NOT making moves to "win now" but I agreed with him. Trying to "win now" when Hart was still in juniors, Sanheim was a rookie, Myers still had a long way to go and Morin was out for half the season makes going for it now just dumb. Our young defenders need time to mature before they will really be a dominant defense. We aren't giving Hart the chance to adjust to the pro game modestly, we are throwing him to the wolves.

While I do believe we needed to add one top 4 dman (Trouba would have been perfect but that wasn't happening) but adding 2 dman to a team that has youngsters knocking on the door was just stupid. I hated the Hayes signing from day one and said it would come back to bite us in the ass and it already has.

Hate that Hextall wouldn't make trades for now all you want but he certainly wouldn't have made the moves that have our hands tied the way they are right now.

Well put

 

[deadhead]

These moves don't have our hands tied, the cap squeeze is due to short-term injuries (i.e. if they were more serious then LTIR and no cap issue).
But Braun and Pitlick are one year deals, Niskanen and Laughton and Raffl 2 year deals, all easily moved if needed.
The only guys with long-term deals over 25: G, Couts, Ghost, JVR, Voracek and Hayes.

It's common for young players, especially defensemen, to take a couple years to go from the AHL/CHL to dependable NHL starter.
Braun and Niskanen are both mentors, and stopgaps that buy time.
The same way Hayes means Patrick can take his time coming back and Frost can marinate for a month or two if need be.

We should have learned by now you just can't write a kid into the lineup and expect a top starter, sometimes they're instant successes, sometimes they need 2-3 years to grow into a major role.
Better they force their way, the way Giroux did, than be handed a job followed by fervent prayer.

 

[DancingPanther]

It's getting better all the time. It can't get no worse.

it's...really not. For once, they're wrong

 

[Lotusflower]

As usual people are way overreacting.

We know this team should have been blown up after 2011-12, when they looked like an old washed up team in the playoffs.
They snuck by a Penguins team having an off season, then got trounced by the Devils.
Instead, Holmgren twiddles his thumbs for two years before turning the rebuild over to Hextall.

Didn't matter who you hired as HC (see Berube in Philly, St Louis) - those two years reduced the trade value of a half dozen veterans - look at the Rangers, when they bit the bullet they went whole hog into a rebuild. This meant it was going to be a long rebuild.

You can't buy your way into contention the way Holmgren did a decade ago. We played a lot of bad players b/c that's what we had in the organization - the cupboard was bare and the cap maxed out.

But Hextall patiently turned it around, there's lot's of talent coming the next 2-3 years, some this fall, some this spring, a lot next fall.
[A little luck would be nice, Patrick's problems are par for the course for the Flyers it seems]
Let's see what AV can do with this team before surrendering to despair.

Holmgren's mistake was he overestimated Schenn/Couturier to an extent and was dumb enough to believe Timonen could hold down a top pair into his early 40's.

Giroux was one of the elite centers for 5 years+ AFTER 2012. If Holmgren had been intelligently aggressive instead of coservative at the end there he might have addressed our real problems and we wouldnt have wasted a top 3 center peak in franchise history

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Hextall did very little to turn things around beyond sitting on his ass and MAINLY drafting when it was his turn.

He tried to play the line between a full rebuild and staying competitive. Absolute nonsense imo.

He brought a lot of quantity in terms of prospects, but where is the true elite high end replacements for the old core/Giroux?

**** him. Coward.

Yeahhhhh there's some of that sound, objective criticism I come to these boards for.

 

[GagneHanson12]

If this is true I WANT it.

@CanadianFlyer88