2019-20 Roster Speculation Part 6.

[itwasaforwardpass]

Here is a fun question - who is going to have the better career: Alex Nylander or Casey Mittelstadt?

Its yet to be determined but unlike Nylander, at least Casey has acknowledged his issue (fitness) and apparently has worked on it in his second offseason. Hopefully we will see the fruits of his labor this season.

 

[Dreakon13]

While I don't have a ton of faith in a player like Vesey becoming a good NHLer... people here read way too much into these low risk moves (late pick, insignificant cap hit, one year, etc) thinking by dwelling on it that it proves this point of their bigger picture/narrative of sustained incompetence.

Part of it is a cheap reclamation project if it works out, part of it is to have bodies around for competition and to make sure we aren't completely depleting Rochester of talent. I'd prefer Botts target better players for that too, but it is what it is... a low risk move.

EDIT: If Vesey has a terrible year and Botts extends him, then I'll be worried.

 

[tsujimoto74]

So all of his critics have studied his time with the Rangers to know he is terrible?


...or are we relying on Ranger fans who are glad to **** on him now that he is no longer on their team?

I can't speak for everyone, but I was against acquiring him before we did it. I'm not changing my tune now. If he surprises me, honestly, great -- I'd love for the Sabres to have more quality forwards up and down the line-up. I just don't think that's what we got here.

 

[sabremike]

So all of his critics have studied his time with the Rangers to know he is terrible?


...or are we relying on Ranger fans who are glad to **** on him now that he is no longer on their team?

I live in the northern suburbs of NYC so I see plenty of Rangers games and can tell you for a fact Vessey is awful. And their fans wanted to get rid of him for virtually all of last season because they saw how bad he was on a nightly basis. He isn't quite as bad as Sobotka (who is locked in a mortal struggle with Leo Komerov over who is the absolute worst player on an NHL roster) but he is another guy no team should've touched with a ten foot pole.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

While I don't have a ton of faith in a player like Vesey becoming a good NHLer... people here read way too much into these low risk moves (late pick, insignificant cap hit, one year, etc) thinking by dwelling on it that it proves this point of their bigger picture/narrative of sustained incompetence.

Part of it is a cheap reclamation project if it works out, part of it is to have bodies around for competition and to make sure we aren't completely depleting Rochester of talent. I'd prefer Botts target better players for that too, but it is what it is... a low risk move.

EDIT: If Vesey has a terrible year and Botts extends him, then I'll be worried.

Wasting yet another another season with the sub-replacement level players that Botterill continually brings in is not low risk.

If Vesey doesn’t work out and he’s kept on the roster because we used a pick on him, like we do every year with the players Botts brings in, that’s a worst case scenario.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I live in the northern suburbs of NYC so I see plenty of Rangers games and can tell you for a fact Vessey is awful. And their fans wanted to get rid of him for virtually all of last season because they saw how bad he was on a nightly basis. He isn't quite as bad as Sobotka (who is locked in a mortal struggle with Leo Komerov over who is the absolute worst player on an NHL roster) but he is another guy no team should've touched with a ten foot pole.

I live near MSG, watch plenty of Rags games, and know more NYR fans than I do Sabres fans -- and can confirm all of this 100%.

 

[OkimLom]

So all of his critics have studied his time with the Rangers to know he is terrible?


...or are we relying on Ranger fans who are glad to **** on him now that he is no longer on their team?

Can't speak for everyone, but my buddy is a big Rangers fan and we watch plenty of games together. Watching Vesey you were going to get an inconsistent player that when he was at his best, he was counted on for little goal support and not much else. When he was not playing well, he was pretty much a black hole for the team's possession. He was consistently behind plays, his skating didn't afford him a cushion for when he made mistakes. He's a very limited skilled player. He doesn't have the tenacity to bring any sort of energy on a shift to shift basis.

And this was a player that CHOSE to play for his hometown team when given the opportunity. Those types of players that choose where they get to go, SHOULD play with a consistency and energy every game. Too many times he didn't show up. Now we expect him to improve on that type of motivation and expect him to play better for a team he was traded to, that he previously decided to not play for in the past. It's not a good recipe for getting a productive player.

We are taking a flyer on a player, for a high quality asset, that we hope the "Great Motivator" can get more out of him than his hometown team could. Probably should've gotten more out of the Rangers for doing so.

 

[Chainshot]

Such an excellent point that often gets forgotten; complimentary skillsets. One of the more intriguing line combinations I saw mentioned that would take advantage of his strengths was Vesey-Erod-Reinhart.

That might make an interesting line. I do wonder how they get more out of Casey with the wingers that’s leaves.

Let's hope they focus on the offense coming from the forwards in the offensive zone, which would push the puck toward's the crease a lot more often. If we're relying on our defense to get pucks through like last year, I'd expect plenty of blocked shots and a waste of Vesey's ONE strength he has in his game.

That seems to be the plan. And shortening the d-men windups and giving them more support to pinch.

I can't speak for everyone, but I was against acquiring him before we did it. I'm not changing my tune now. If he surprises me, honestly, great -- I'd love for the Sabres to have more quality forwards up and down the line-up. I just don't think that's what we got here.

Same. I have watched him a bit and looked through both vid and advanced stats to confirm what I thought about him. He is not a risk-R͏e͏ward guy, really, more of a set commodity. It would be wonderful if he has some sort of Pokémon evolution, but this seems unlikely.

 

[Fezzy126]

Can't speak for everyone, but my buddy is a big Rangers fan and we watch plenty of games together. Watching Vesey you were going to get an inconsistent player that when he was at his best, he was counted on for little goal support and not much else. When he was not playing well, he was pretty much a black hole for the team's possession. He was consistently behind plays, his skating didn't afford him a cushion for when he made mistakes. He's a very limited skilled player. He doesn't have the tenacity to bring any sort of energy on a shift to shift basis.

And this was a player that CHOSE to play for his hometown team when given the opportunity. Those types of players that choose where they get to go, SHOULD play with a consistency and energy every game. Too many times he didn't show up. Now we expect him to improve on that type of motivation and expect him to play better for a team he was traded to, that he previously decided to not play for in the past. It's not a good recipe for getting a productive player.

We are taking a flyer on a player, for a high quality asset, that we hope the "Great Motivator" can get more out of him than his hometown team could. Probably should've gotten more out of the Rangers for doing so.

I'm hoping the big motivator here is being traded from your preferred team and being in a contract year. That being said count me in the group that wasn't a fan of his before the trade...

 

[OkimLom]

While I don't have a ton of faith in a player like Vesey becoming a good NHLer... people here read way too much into these low risk moves (late pick, insignificant cap hit, one year, etc) thinking by dwelling on it that it proves this point of their bigger picture/narrative of sustained incompetence.

Part of it is a cheap reclamation project if it works out, part of it is to have bodies around for competition and to make sure we aren't completely depleting Rochester of talent. I'd prefer Botts target better players for that too, but it is what it is... a low risk move.

EDIT: If Vesey has a terrible year and Botts extends him, then I'll be worried.

I'm glad you're worried about depleting Rochester, but I had to laugh at you thinking that trading a 3rd round pick is a low-risk move.

If Vesey doesn't perform, or doesn't re-sign, you threw away a pretty decent value of a draft pick for 1 year of a player in a season you're not that overly competitive. You probably could've kept the pick and used it down the road to replenish your cupboard, or use it in a trade for a year where you expect to play better. It would've been nice to get another asset along with Vesey seeing as we did NYR a favor by clearing some cap space for the "Bread Man".

There have been many "low-risk" moves that have not worked out well for us to improve the team. We continue to take them, but we don't do anything to make them worthwhile to help the long term plans.

 

[Fezzy126]

That might make an interesting line. I do wonder how they get more out of Casey with the wingers that’s leaves.

I think on paper all combinations without Sobotka or KO seem 'interesting'

Real hockey can't get here soon enough

 

[Dreakon13]

I'm glad you're worried about depleting Rochester, but I had to laugh at you thinking that trading a 3rd round pick is a low-risk move.

I mean, I dunno what to tell you if you think a 3rd round pick has too high of value to take shots with. Could probably find someone out there willing to fight tooth and nail that 5th and 7th round picks technically have value too (and they wouldn't be wrong). Olofsson was a 7th rounder. Ryan Miller was a 5th rounder. /shrug

IMO, past the 2nd round you're entering crapshoot territory. So yeah, I think it's relatively low risk. Agree to disagree.

 

[joshjull]

I confess I’m not that excited about Vesey either though not as down on him as some are. He’s someone effective, to very effective, around the opposing net but not very good anywhere else. Its a piece that can be worked with but I get posters preferring a more well rounded player.

 

[Buffaloed]

I think on paper all combinations without Sobotka or KO seem 'interesting'

Real hockey can't get here soon enough

Sobotka is OK on toilet paper

 

[joshjull]

That might make an interesting line. I do wonder how they get more out of Casey with the wingers that’s leaves.



That seems to be the plan. And shortening the d-men windups and giving them more support to pinch.



Same. I have watched him a bit and looked through both vid and advanced stats to confirm what I thought about him. He is not a risk-R͏e͏ward guy, really, more of a set commodity. It would be wonderful if he has some sort of Pokémon evolution, but this seems unlikely.

Olofsson/Mitts/MoJo might be an interesting option if a Vesey/Erod/Sam line was tried.

 

[Zman5778]

Olofsson/Mitts/MoJo might be an interesting option if a Vesey/Erod/Sam line was tried.

Then Sheary up with Skinner and Eichel. Might be some interesting lines there.

 

[joshjull]

I’m feeling saucy


Skinner/Jack/Girgs
Vesey/Erod/Sam
Olofsson/Asplund/MoJo
CJ Smith/Mitts/Tage

Larsson/Okposo extra.

Can swap Larsson with Asplund if you want more experience.

 

[Zman5778]

I’m feeling saucy


Skinner/Jack/Girgs
Vesey/Erod/Sam
Olofsson/Asplund/MoJo
CJ Smith/Mitts/Tage

Larsson/Okposo extra.

Interesting, but IMO it'd be Girgensons that'd hit the bench first over Larsson. Right now, Larsson's the only guy on the team who you can regularly count on to win faceoffs.

 

[joshjull]

Interesting, but IMO it'd be Girgensons that'd hit the bench first over Larsson. Right now, Larsson's the only guy on the team who you can regularly count on to win faceoffs.

I edited in an option to swap Asplund for Larsson. That would make Sheary/Okposo extra or Girgs would probably swap out for Sheary.

Skinner/Jack/Sheary
Vesey/Erod/Sam
Olofsson/Larsson/MoJo
CJ Smith/Mitts/Tage

Girgs+Okposo extra

 

[Zman5778]

I edited in an option to swap Asplund for Larsson.

Now that'd be interesting. Larsson's been with offensive guys before and looked OK. Swapping CJS and MoJo might make for two interesting trios as well.

Skinner-Jack-Girgs
Vesey-ERod-Sam
Olofsson-Larsson-CJS
MoJo-Mitts-Tage

 

[Zman5778]

Worth noting -- we're both completely forgetting Sheary.

 

[joshjull]

Worth noting -- we're both completely forgetting Sheary.

I didn’t forget him. I just ignored him as an option on the first go through.

 

[Dreakon13]

Wasting yet another another season with the sub-replacement level players that Botterill continually brings in is not low risk.

Is that what Johansson and Miller are? Jokiharju (if he makes the team)? Montour late last year? Trying to peg the future of this club on a 3rd round pick or Jimmy Vesey is cute if you have a narrative to drive home... seems kind of silly otherwise.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Is that what Johansson and Miller are? Jokiharju (if he makes the team)? Montour late last year? Trying to peg the future of this club on a 3rd round pick or Jimmy Vesey is cute if you have a narrative to drive home... seems kind of silly otherwise.

Yes, I have a narrative - that some of the moves the GM made don’t make sense, and that he failed to address the most important needs. What’s your point?

 

[Dreakon13]

What’s your point?

That saying it's a high risk move, is either putting too much value on Vesey or the 3rd rounder. IMO.

And it's getting tiring seeing people making mountains out of molehills with even the least significant moves almost solely because it furthers other points... like how much we should hate Botteril.