2019-20 Roster Speculation Part 6.

[OkimLom]

I mean, I dunno what to tell you if you think a 3rd round pick has too high of value to take shots with. Could probably find someone out there willing to fight tooth and nail that 5th and 7th round picks technically have value too (and they wouldn't be wrong). Olofsson was a 7th rounder. Ryan Miller was a 5th rounder. /shrug

IMO, past the 2nd round you're entering crapshoot territory. So yeah, I think it's relatively low risk. Agree to disagree.

To take shots with in generals, nah. To take a one year risk, with ONLY getting the player back, yeah it’s too high of a risk.

You’re probably right, it’s a crapshoot. But we’re a team that builds through the draft, or at least that’s what they say. We still need as much draft capital as possible to find as many good players as possible.

 

[Dreakon13]

To take shots with in generals, nah. To take a one year risk, with ONLY getting the player back, yeah it’s too high of a risk.

I dunno if you'd realistically get multiple pieces, one of them being a player with NHL upside, for a 3rd.

I'd settle for "a player better than Vesey", as far as where a 3rd tops out at value-wise. Not much higher than that though.

 

[old kummelweck]

Were Pekar and Cozens the only junior-eligible players on the training camp roster?

 

[Buffaloed]

Were Pekar and Cozens the only junior-eligible players on the training camp roster?

Olson could go back to the WHL as an overager if he doesn't get a contract. Tri-City named him captain.

 

[sabremike]

I dunno if you'd realistically get multiple pieces, one of them being a player with NHL upside, for a 3rd.

I'd settle for "a player better than Vesey", as far as where a 3rd tops out at value-wise. Not much higher than that though.

3rd rounders have value, particularly when packaged with other things. Handing them out like candy for a very bad player who has clearly established he has negative value is not something any team should be doing.

 

[Dreakon13]

3rd rounders have value, particularly when packaged with other things. Handing them out like candy for a very bad player who has clearly established he has negative value is not something any team should be doing.

I have my reservations that Vesey is a "very bad player"... I'll probably just wait on that and see him for myself this season. I'm also not sure what hypothetical trade you're imagining where a 3rd alone makes or breaks the deal.

I stand by my belief this was low risk. If people want to sell the move as another lost season before it even starts, or a hypothetical trade we can no longer make, or an impact player that we can no longer draft... that's on you I guess.

 

[Buffaloed]

Scary thought of the day - Cozens might already be a better center than Mittelstadt

 

[Blitz]

3rd rounders have value, particularly when packaged with other things. Handing them out like candy for a very bad player who has clearly established he has negative value is not something any team should be doing.

3rd rounders in the NFL have value and yield many legit NFL players immediately - 3rd RND picks in the NHL have a <12% hit rate, and even when they do hit, it's years down the road before they mature... Gambling with a 3rd for an NHL calibre forward is more than acceptable IMO.

 

[Snippit]

Scary thought of the day - Cozens might already be a better center than Mittelstadt

More like inaccurate thought of the day.

Cozens has not even looked like a top 10 pick yet. Chalking it up to his hand injury though.

 

[Buffaloed]

More like inaccurate thought of the day.

Cozens has not even looked like a top 10 pick yet. Chalking it up to his hand injury though.

Neither has Mittelstadt and he doesn't have a hand injury.

 

[BuffaloGooner]

Neither has Mittelstadt and he doesn't have a hand injury.

He’s also 19 years old. We’ve been suffering for a long time with having a garbage team but the lack of allowing young players to have enough time develop properly is shocking.

This teams issue has been having exactly zero quality NHL veterans to carry the load for probably the last 10 years.

 

[Snippit]

Neither has Mittelstadt and he doesn't have a hand injury.

Yeah regardless I see nothing to indicate Cozens is even a better prospect than Mittelstadt, let alone being better right now.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

That saying it's a high risk move, is either putting too much value on Vesey or the 3rd rounder. IMO.

And it's getting tiring seeing people making mountains out of molehills with even the least significant moves almost solely because it furthers other points... like how much we should hate Botteril.

Your comments are tiring to me too, why would anyone care? I don't see why anyone should tailor their comments to your sensibilities. Just ignore the people you don't agree with if you;'re so offended. You aren't even addressing the points I'm making, you just repeat the same GENERALIZATIONS (which is against the rules) about other people posting.

 

[Buffaloed]

He’s also 19 years old. We’ve been suffering for a long time with having a garbage team but the lack of allowing young players to have enough time develop properly is shocking.

This teams issue has been having exactly zero quality NHL veterans to carry the load for probably the last 10 years.

I remember Botterill saying that some players can be developed in the NHL and the need to have coaches who were more oriented in that direction. I don't disagree if we're talking about putting the finishing touches on players who already have substantial minor league development. The choice of Mittelstadt and Thompson seemed more ego driven than a sound developmental decision.
BTW, Mitts turns 21 in November.

 

[old kummelweck]

Yeah regardless I see nothing to indicate Cozens is even a better prospect than Mittelstadt, let alone being better right now.

That's what you call observer bias. I bet you thought they should have taken someone else with the pick.

 

[Dreakon13]

EDIT: Probably not worth it.

 

[Sabre Dance]

So Montour broke his hand?

 

[Captain Holt]

Speaking of hand injuries... sounds like Montour broke his

 

[lauraP]

Hmm that bust Nylander is looking real good on Chicago

 

[MackAttack26]

Well, if that's the case I guess Risto is staying. And I guess Joki makes the team.

But man that would suck. Was expecting a big year from Monty...

 

[old kummelweck]

Hmm that bust Nylander is looking real good on Chicago

And Jokiharju is looking good on BUF.

 

[lauraP]

And Jokiharju is looking good on BUF.

Nylander though

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

If Big Buff does end up retiring then it is almost a lock that either Risto or Faulk is going to end up in Winnipeg.

Does anyone make the following hypothetical trade?

Patrik Laine (signed to a 7 x 8.5 extension) for

Rasmus Ristolainen, 2020 1st (top 2 protected, becomes 2021 unprotected if pick is top 2), Lawrence Pilut and Rasmus Asplund.

Sabres add another big time elite high end goal scorer. Jets add a 25 year old top 4 RHD, a 1st round pick, a budding soon to be quality 2nd pairing LHD and a quality future middle 6 center prospect.

Jets clearly give the best player but Laine is clearly unhappy. He wants to play with a top tier center and he would get that playing with Jack. Winnipeg adds immediate D help along with another future top 4 D that will be in their lineup full time by new years most likely if not right away, a good 3c prospect to soon replace aging Perreault and a 1st round pick from a team that has drafted top 8, what now 7 years in a row? I know the Risto portion of the proposal would be lauded around here but I wonder about the inclusion of Pilut, Asplund and our 1st round pick.

If that trade did happen boy would we have an electric offense.

Skinner-Eichel-Laine
Olofsson-Mittelstadt-Reinhart

Now that is a dynamite top 6. If Mitts is getting Olofsson and Sam as his wingers, and also a top line that features 2 top tier 35-40 goal scoring wingers on either side of our franchise ppg+ center taking away the oppositions #1 D pairing I think that would lead to a ~50 point season for Mitts. And not only that but that entire top 6 is 27 and younger (Hell, outside of Skinner the entire top 6 is 24 and younger) and we still have Cozens in the wings ready to slide into the 3C spot and anchor an actual top quality scoring 3rd line for the first time since 2006-2007 when we had 3 virtual #1 lines pretty much.

Now the defense definitely would take a hit moving both Risto AND Pilut but it honestly can absorb losing both.

For this year...


Dahlin-Montour
McCabe-Miller
Scandella-Joki

Bogo/Nelson/Borgen


Definitely weak on the left side past Dahlin...in a couple years you have Samuelsson stepping in along with Johnson too. The Left side can be strengthened next summer via free agency and/or trade. So in conclusion, yes I would move Pilut along with Risto, a 1st and Asplund to bring in a 21 year old ~40 goal scorer. If Jack is centering a line with Jeff Skinner and Patrik Laine as his wingers he is not going to just be a ppg center but I think he would then be able to take that coveted next/final step and becomes a literal assist per game center. A 25-30 goal, 75-80 assist, 100-110 point superstar center that we envisioned as his true ceiling back in 2015.

Virtually zero chance but boy it is nice to dream.

 

[OkimLom]

You could also ignore my posts, or report and move on, if you're that upset about it. You're breaking a few rules here yourself.

EDIT: Keep in mind my point was about valuing Vesey and the 3rd, which you didn't address at all here. The "generalization" was more of an innocuous side comment to understand your rationale since you're being vague, not responding to the content of the posts, and going off on angry tangents like this.

There's kind of a weird trend happening here where someone posts something positive, people respond negatively to it, the positive person rebuts, and the negative person seems to jump right to this victim stance of "I'm not going to change MY OPINIONS for you! JUST IGNORE ME IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH ME!" Or coming up with weird passive aggressive disclaimers to proactively avoid having to discuss the things they post. I mean, I'll probably end up ignoring you or blocking you or whatever if this keeps up... but not because I don't agree with you. But because this isn't really a conversation and I'm starting to lose hope that there's going to be one.

Okay for the record, we (me and you) have been having a discussion about a comment made. That’s what these are for. YOU are the one that said that we will agree to disagree which is similar as saying you aren’t open to changing your mind.

And since I’m the one that put the disclaimer up, at what point have I turned away from having a discussion about anything I said. Hell, I had a discussion about the disclaimer itself.

 

[Aladyyn]

If Big Buff does end up retiring then it is almost a lock that either Risto or Faulk is going to end up in Winnipeg.

Does anyone make the following hypothetical trade?

Patrik Laine (signed to a 7 x 8.5 extension) for

Rasmus Ristolainen, 2020 1st (top 2 protected, becomes 2021 unprotected if pick is top 2), Lawrence Pilut and Rasmus Asplund.

Sabres add another big time elite high end goal scorer. Jets add a 25 year old top 4 RHD, a 1st round pick, a budding soon to be quality 2nd pairing LHD and a quality future middle 6 center prospect.

Jets clearly give the best player but Laine is clearly unhappy. He wants to play with a top tier center and he would get that playing with Jack. Winnipeg adds immediate D help along with another future top 4 D that will be in their lineup full time by new years most likely if not right away, a good 3c prospect to soon replace aging Perreault and a 1st round pick from a team that has drafted top 8, what now 7 years in a row? I know the Risto portion of the proposal would be lauded around here but I wonder about the inclusion of Pilut, Asplund and our 1st round pick.

If that trade did happen boy would we have an electric offense.

Skinner-Eichel-Laine
Olofsson-Mittelstadt-Reinhart

Now that is a dynamite top 6. If Mitts is getting Olofsson and Sam as his wingers, and also a top line that features 2 top tier 35-40 goal scoring wingers on either side of our franchise ppg+ center taking away the oppositions #1 D pairing I think that would lead to a ~50 point season for Mitts. And not only that but that entire top 6 is 27 and younger (Hell, outside of Skinner the entire top 6 is 24 and younger) and we still have Cozens in the wings ready to slide into the 3C spot and anchor an actual top quality scoring 3rd line for the first time since 2006-2007 when we had 3 virtual #1 lines pretty much.

Now the defense definitely would take a hit moving both Risto AND Pilut but it honestly can absorb losing both.

For this year...


Dahlin-Montour
McCabe-Miller
Scandella-Joki

Bogo/Nelson/Borgen


Definitely weak on the left side past Dahlin...in a couple years you have Samuelsson stepping in along with Johnson too. The Left side can be strengthened next summer via free agency and/or trade. So in conclusion, yes I would move Pilut along with Risto, a 1st and Asplund to bring in a 21 year old ~40 goal scorer. If Jack is centering a line with Jeff Skinner and Patrik Laine as his wingers he is not going to just be a ppg center but I think he would then be able to take that coveted next/final step and becomes a literal assist per game center. A 25-30 goal, 75-80 assist, 100-110 point superstar center that we envisioned as his true ceiling back in 2015.

Virtually zero chance but boy it is nice to dream.

That's a gross overpayment on multiple fronts. And if we somehow get Laine he needs to play with Reinhart and Rodrigues in order to get actual value from him.