2019/20 Pro-Tank Thread - Part II (Mod note in Post #154)

[PG Canuck]

And I’m officially out - it was a fun ride folks.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Agreed. That was my attitude coming into the season. Also, constantly being in a negative headspace about the team I love had wore me down. I still have the same complaints about management but as long as current ownership are involved there isn't any change made that will improve that area. Besides, this team is actually a lot better than I think some people are willing to admit and certainly more entertaining than we've seen in years now. Life is too short.

Aye, this is where I'm at as well. It was a frustrating management to follow for the last 5 years, but at least the on-ice product is exciting to watch and the team is succeeding. I still remain skeptical of cap management/UFA signings, but that's no reason not to enjoy this season and get excited for the playoff push.

 

[rypper]

I'm less about tanking for the high pick now and just want the management team to be replaced. If we're making the playoffs and entering that stage of the team I don't have any faith in Benning to supplement our draft picks to flush out the roster giving us the best chance to win.

We still need to draft well yes, but we need someone to find the Chris Higgins and/or Max Lapierre type trades to add to our roster. We need a new GM that has an eye for that. Jim Benning's track record in the pro scouting department doesn't instill confidence.

 

[Javaman]

Just wait til next year!

But seriously, it seems like our good ship Titanktic has hit an iceberg.

Benning's not going anywhere for a while it appears. I still have no confidence in his ability to build a contender or even deal with the coming cap crunch, but I figure I may as well cheer for the Canucks to do as well as possible this season.

 

[geebaan]

This is the team of destiny this year, I’m out. No point in fighting it anymore. They’re gonna get the brakes, and no injuries, and a few great young players to carry them. Sunrise sunset.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Tanks for the memories!

 

[VanillaCoke]

Still in. Benning is still a moron.

 

[dwarf]

I am always team tank, until I think this team is ready to cup contend. Sadly its a first round sweeper at the moment. The only positive about this year, is we may not give up a lottery pick.

 

[Jack Burton]

 

[Hoghandler]

We still need to draft well yes, but we need someone to find the Chris Higgins and/or Max Lapierre type trades to add to our roster.

Benning has done just that, only his pro scouting additions and trades to find those types were better than the Higgins/Lapierre trades.

Tanner Pearson and Josh Leivo are both better than those guys. While the acquisition cost was also lower.

 

[Hyzer]

Tanking is a state of mind

 

[vanuck]

As long as Benning is the GM he's shown to be... I'm still team tank. Nothing less.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Benning has done just that, only his pro scouting additions and trades to find those types were better than the Higgins/Lapierre trades.

Tanner Pearson and Josh Leivo are both better than those guys. While the acquisition cost was also lower.

How many trades as he made to now be able to show these hits? How many misses had he had? Last, how do you compare the pro scouting of each on the whole?

This should explain how measured your read is on both GMs.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I'm less about tanking for the high pick now and just want the management team to be replaced. If we're making the playoffs and entering that stage of the team I don't have any faith in Benning to supplement our draft picks to flush out the roster giving us the best chance to win.

We still need to draft well yes, but we need someone to find the Chris Higgins and/or Max Lapierre type trades to add to our roster. We need a new GM that has an eye for that. Jim Benning's track record in the pro scouting department doesn't instill confidence.

Clearly, the tenure of Benning isn’t tied to losing. Will it be in the future? Maybe. But on balance he should have been gone already. Wins and losses didn’t appear to matter.

For the tank, it’s just about the pick, I think.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Look at the teams we're above in the standings and the teams we're below

told you guys we can't tank without an injury to Pettersson or Hughes, no point


I was OG Team Tank but writing was on the wall this season

What do you think about next year?

 

[Intangibos]

Should have been a cup year if it weren't for all the wasted cap space and blown assets

 

[CHEESE]

Should have been a cup year if it weren't for all the wasted cap space and blown assets

Yeah not close

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Yeah not close

You don't appreciate and/or understand the amount of assets we flushed down the toilet then.

 

[Hoghandler]

How many trades as he made to now be able to show these hits? How many misses had he had? Last, how do you compare the pro scouting of each on the whole?

This should explain how measured your read is on both GMs.

I see an improving record with Benning over his tenure. There isn’t a single area he oversee’s where I think we are regressing the longer he is on board. The drafting is trending exceptionally well, the trade body of work has gotten significantly better, the decision to have Chris Gear do all the contract negotiations is an excellent one, the coaches Benning has brought in to the organization I’m a fan of - Green, Ian Clark, Malhotra etc...

Mike Gillis on the other hand came out strong making good decisions, then really faded over time to the point where it was tough to give him the benefit of the doubt any longer. Didn’t install much confidence in the 2nd half of his tenure.

Everyone likes black and white answers like Benning bad, Gillis good, or vice versa. I see it more along the lines of first half Benning bad, 2nd half good. First half Gillis good, 2nd half bad. Obviously not all moves fall into these blanket terms, but that’s the crux of how I’ve seen things.

 

[Cancuks]

For the disbelievers only 9 points separates this team from being a bottom 7 team in the NHL. People don't realize how tight the standings are. With the NHL's stupid point system, there are 25 teams with over a PPG %.

 

[PecaFan]

I see an improving record with Benning over his tenure.

I just don't see it. He's still signing awful free agents like Ferland that we all knew was a mistake, trades have been meh to bad. His big trade win (so far) Miller is the Vegas equivalent of betting your entire life savings on a single spin of the roulette wheel. Just because you walk away a winner on a long shot doesn't make it a smart move.

It was a dumb move that just happened to pay off (probably) because almost everything went right all at the same time, career years by some key guys, zero key injuries, the refs decided to bless the Canucks with massive numbers of power play chances compared to the opposition, etc. Make that Miller trade 10 times, and it turns into a bad trade 8 times. As we have seen multiple times over the years by non-playoff teams giving up first rounders. Dynasties have literally been built on the foundation of getting crap teams to think trades will improve them 'Hey California Seals, this Ernie Hicke guy will totally change your franchise...' Yup, sure did.

I say probably and so far because even now things could still go wrong. As a Canucks fan for the full 50 years, it wouldn't shock me at all if the worst case happened (which would be missing the playoffs by a point this season, and then next year 'normality' resumes and we get a bunch of injuries and miss, only to 'win' the lottery finally.

 

[Pavel96]

I just don't see it. He's still signing awful free agents like Ferland that we all knew was a mistake, trades have been meh to bad. His big trade win (so far) Miller is the Vegas equivalent of betting your entire life savings on a single spin of the roulette wheel. Just because you walk away a winner on a long shot doesn't make it a smart move.

It was a dumb move that just happened to pay off (probably) because almost everything went right all at the same time, career years by some key guys, zero key injuries, the refs decided to bless the Canucks with massive numbers of power play chances compared to the opposition, etc. Make that Miller trade 10 times, and it turns into a bad trade 8 times. As we have seen multiple times over the years by non-playoff teams giving up first rounders. Dynasties have literally been built on the foundation of getting crap teams to think trades will improve them 'Hey California Seals, this Ernie Hicke guy will totally change your franchise...' Yup, sure did.

I say probably and so far because even now things could still go wrong. As a Canucks fan for the full 50 years, it wouldn't shock me at all if the worst case happened (which would be missing the playoffs by a point this season, and then next year 'normality' resumes and we get a bunch of injuries and miss, only to 'win' the lottery finally.

Exactly this. Well done.

 

[Hoghandler]

I just don't see it.

Then we will agree to disagree. I see a lot of improvements over the course of Benning's tenure.

The one area where he was absolutely dreadful was in negotiating contracts. On that front, he's decided to step away from the table and allow Chris Gear to handle those duties. If you haven't heard Chris speak, I recommend listening to an interview with him. He gives off the Gillis/Gilman vibe and the impression he's suited to not only fill the role, but excel in it. The potential payoff of that decision cannot be overstated IMO.

Benning had the humility and self awareness to see where his strength's and weaknesses lay and stepped up to make moves to mitigate those shortcomings. He's moved away from negotiating, where he was a complete mess, and back into a heavy focus on the amateur side of drafting, where his experience and connections are ore likely to reap benefits for the club.

He's also done a great job with his coaching hires. Another worry with Benning was that he wasn't equipped to round out his coaching/management positions. With some time to look at his body of work, we have seen a savvy promotion of Judd Brackett, quality hire of Travis Green, as well as a shrewd move to bring in Manny Malhotra. To top it off, he may have signed the best goalie coach in the business, Ian Clark.

People see what they want to see. If you have seen no improvements in Benning's management over the past 6 years, I'm certainly not going to convince you otherwise. Can't say I have many complaints with Benning since his boss was asked to leave town. Trevor Linden was an empty suit. Getting rid of him has unsurprisingly not come back to bite us.

 

[just22]

This year could easily be a blip, like the 16-17 Oilers - everything is falling into place, no injuries, all the bounces going our way.

At this point I’m cheering for more wins so the pick going to Tampa is going to be in the mid 20s. I could see a collapse and a bottom 10 finish next year where hopefully management and coaching is canned.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Some people see alot of things that arent there, or only choose to see what they want to see.