2019/20 Pro-Tank Thread - Part II (Mod note in Post #154)

[VancouverJagger]

Yeah I think this thread should be changed to the Fire Benning thread.......it's not making a ton of sense any longer and I know a lot of people in here seem to be conflicted as they are enjoying the team and hoping they win - however with a different management group.

 

[Ainec]

Strange rationale. Curious how you think this applies to Edmonton?

edmonton has bigger turds than us

benning is death by a thousand cuts

chiarelli was YOLO


both are bad. I'd argue Benning is worse because he's able to stay on as GM. Chiarelli's YOLO moves obviously are beyond what is the norm. On top of that Edmonton has had worse drafting than us in the last decade, even before Brackett

 

[vanuck]

If they can carry this team to the playoffs, it’s going to be amazing what they’ll be able to do when the team is a bit better.

You guys are getting ‘wanting to make the playoffs’ confused for ‘we are Stanley cup contenders’ far too often.

Tbh I don't even know if that's the case. In my view everyone looks at the pro-playoff side and acknowledges that pretty much none of them think we're contenders, just that they hope to get in and see what happens.

In fact, the pro-playoff argument gets ridiculed because they acknowledge they're not ready to contend.

 

[vanuck]

They have been doing it this entire season and we are #1 in our division

While Hughes and EP have been great so far, I would actually chalk the team's current position up to Markstrom's play more than anything. He's been this team's MVP so far IMO.

 

[vanuck]

Benning could get fired over a poor playoff performance too... Think about this ownership group.

Wishing for bad things to happen to the team so that Benning doesn't have any 'wins' is counter-productive. If he won every trade and hit a homerun on every pick then we'd want to keep him around. The bias here is feeding itself and now it's a personal vendetta against the man, rather than a measured critique of him as a GM.

If he actually won every trade and hit homeruns in the first place nobody would've ever wanted him fired to begin with, so this is kinda circular...

 

[Ainec]

While Hughes and EP have been great so far, I would actually chalk the team's current position up to Markstrom's play more than anything. He's been this team's MVP so far IMO.

I don't disagree but that's ready included into the equation

 

[y2kcanucks]

This past month has really pissed me off. The team is being badly outplayed, but is getting incredibly lucky and goaltending that's among the best in the league. Incredibly frustrating.

 

[4Twenty]

I think this is just another management thread now. Is anyone (aside from the fire Benning at any cost crowd) actually pushing for us to barely miss and draft out of the top 10 and give up an unprotected pick next year? They have 60 points with 32 games to go. Even if they go well below NHL .500, they will still pick up 25 points and end up drafting in the teens, well past the talent drop-off. We can stop dreaming of Lafreniere, we all know that if anything, we'd drop a spot or two.

IMO, we might as well burn off that pick to Tampa and see if the team regresses next year. I still think we need to draft some blue chip pieces to round out the team, I just think this isn't our season to do it. It'll be good to get some playoff games for EP and QH anyway, so it's not a totally lost year for the rebuild.

This is is where I’m at too. I think it’s best to get the pick to Tampa out of the way this year.

This year will raise expectations regardless so any step back will at least be softened by a potential lottery pick next season.

West is weak. Finding an upgrade on the blue line could really shore up the team. Obviously they can’t keep playing the same way and expect to have the same success imo. They’ve got to improve on D.

 

[PG Canuck]

Tbh I don't even know if that's the case. In my view everyone looks at the pro-playoff side and acknowledges that pretty much none of them think we're contenders, just that they hope to get in and see what happens.

In fact, the pro-playoff argument gets ridiculed because they acknowledge they're not ready to contend.

Which is a pretty reasonable stance to take, I think. Just because we aren't contenders yet, doesn't mean they should just tank. There is going to be a window of time where you go from Tanking -> Middle of the pack/fringe playoff team -> contenders. I'd say the Canucks are right in the middle and definitely need those extra pieces to be a 2011 Canucks caliber team - what do you suggest the team does right now, not try?

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Which is a pretty reasonable stance to take, I think. Just because we aren't contenders yet, doesn't mean they should just tank. There is going to be a window of time where you go from Tanking -> Middle of the pack/fringe playoff team -> contenders. I'd say the Canucks are right in the middle and definitely need those extra pieces to be a 2011 Canucks caliber team - what do you suggest the team does right now, not try?

Realistically the tank has left the station but you can still hope to miss the playoffs and retain the pick this year. Benning would need to mismanage the cap badly enough to botch the resigning of Pettersson and Hughes to put himself in any real jeopardy with Mr Aquilini imo. And does anyone really want that?

 

[vanuck]

I don't disagree but that's ready included into the equation

I'm actually not sure what you mean by that...

Which is a pretty reasonable stance to take, I think. Just because we aren't contenders yet, doesn't mean they should just tank. There is going to be a window of time where you go from Tanking -> Middle of the pack/fringe playoff team -> contenders. I'd say the Canucks are right in the middle and definitely need those extra pieces to be a 2011 Canucks caliber team - what do you suggest the team does right now, not try?

Sure although following that course of Bad Team > Mediocre > Contenders will be somewhat jeopardized by how badly they've screwed themselves in regards to their cap situation. For a team that's been as bad as we have over the past couple years, you'd expect rapid improvement due to a push from having lots of young, homegrown talent on the rise. Right now we have EP, Boeser, JV, Hughes... and that's it, really. Maybe Gaudette if I'm feeling generous.

In my mind it looks like they're stuck in an awkward position for the next few years because of all the poor contracts they've signed. Too good to bottom out because of Markstrom, yet no room to add over the next 2.5 years or so because of our cap situation. If you fiddle around with contract projections on CapFriendly you'll see just how tight to the cap they'll be.

By the time all their poor contracts are completely expired and they've dealt with the EP and Hughes extensions, vets like Markstrom, Edler, Tanev etc. will already be in their early to mid 30's when you'd expect their performance to start falling off. So then you'll need to find replacements for them. Will it be as easy when they're no longer constantly drafting in the top 10? Hard to say, really.

My preference would be to tank hard for the next 1-2 years, cycle out older players for assets with which we can incentivize teams to take on our junk, sign some guys on 1-year contracts to be liquidated at the TDL and then go for it. Rather than doing nothing for the next 2.5 seasons because they're handcuffed, I'd rather go through very short-term pain to get our cap right so they're free to truly aim to compete for the long-term with this core.

 

[Jack Burton]

This past month has really pissed me off. The team is being badly outplayed, but is getting incredibly lucky and goaltending that's among the best in the league. Incredibly frustrating.

Their primed and ready to choke this season away.

It ain't over yet.

 

[mathonwy]

wtf

 

[nowhereman]

This past month has really pissed me off. The team is being badly outplayed, but is getting incredibly lucky and goaltending that's among the best in the league. Incredibly frustrating.

Being wrong hurts. And it's going to hurt even more when all this "luck" continues.

 

[VanillaCoke]

It would be nice if teams stopped giving us backup goalies

 

[PuckFather]

It would be nice if teams stopped giving us backup goalies

We also had our back up goalie dressed for the Blues game and we won.

 

[VanillaCoke]

We also had our back up goalie dressed for the Blues game and we won.

Our backup is good. Allen and jones are not.

 

[nowhereman]

Our backup is good. Allen and jones are not.

Allen has been one of the best back-ups in the league this year.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Which is a pretty reasonable stance to take, I think. Just because we aren't contenders yet, doesn't mean they should just tank. There is going to be a window of time where you go from Tanking -> Middle of the pack/fringe playoff team -> contenders. I'd say the Canucks are right in the middle and definitely need those extra pieces to be a 2011 Canucks caliber team - what do you suggest the team does right now, not try?

Exactly. There is a very odd view in this thread that if the team is awful season after season and accumulates good youth as a byproduct of that, suddenly some sort of tipping point occurs where they go from terrible team to contender almost overnight. It's ludicrous - especially as we've seen that doesn't work (see Edmonton). A new core is in place and it appears we are becoming an average / middle of pack team now, which is the first step to becoming a contender. Benning might not be the guy to put the finishing touches on the excellent young core he drafted however making the playoffs is a very reasonable goal at this point in time.

 

[The Stig]

Our backup is good. Allen and jones are not.

Allen had a .927 % going into the game...so wrong.

 

[PuckFather]

Our backup is good. Allen and jones are not.

It's the back-up goalie, it's luck, it's not having that many injuries, it's the crappy Pacific division. The list pro-tankers use is so long I can't remember the rest.

 

[xtra]

Exactly. There is a very odd view in this thread that if the team is awful season after season and accumulates good youth as a byproduct of that, suddenly some sort of tipping point occurs where they go from terrible team to contender almost overnight. It's ludicrous - especially as we've seen that doesn't work (see Edmonton). A new core is in place and it appears we are becoming an average / middle of pack team now, which is the first step to becoming a contender. Benning might not be the guy to put the finishing touches on the excellent young core he drafted however making the playoffs is a very reasonable goal at this point in time.

Except making the playoffs gives benning the rope to string out the stupid signings that prevent us from becoming a contender.

 

[Spectrefire]

This past month has really pissed me off. The team is being badly outplayed, but is getting incredibly lucky and goaltending that's among the best in the league. Incredibly frustrating.

So basically what you're saying is that this team is good enough that even when we play shit, we're still leading the way in the division. Sounds like a good hockey team to me.

 

[PuckFather]

Except making the playoffs gives benning the rope to string out the stupid signings that prevent us from becoming a contender.

Like the signing of J.T. Miller?

 

[xtra]

Like the signing of J.T. Miller?

If your gonna troll get it right.
J.T. Was a trade

beagle;Myers;ferland etc were signings