Salary Cap: 2019-20 - Leafs Salary Cap issues and adjustments?

[Dino Tkachuk]

and they're not invoked even more often.

Fair enough but he has to want to leave. What is his motivation for doing that? I can't think of one....

 

[zeke]

Yeah, Marleau would be an absolute ahole not to jump at that opportunity.

even though the leafs gave him all his money up front, he will hurt the team - and piss off all the fans and his teammates - by forcing them to trade a good young player just so he can skate on the 4th line at age 41.

wow, you do think he's a serious jerk.

 

[Frelimo]

I'm always surprised that Kadri's name never comes up as being dealt in the off-season. Think he has as much value to Toronto as Staal did with Pittsburgh. Another team could be looking him as their 2nd line center.

His name seems to come up in trade scenarios quite often actually

 

[ACC1224]

even though the leafs gave him all his money up front, he will screw them and piss off all the fans and his teammates by forcing them to trade a good young player just so he can skate on the 4th line at age 41.

wow, you do think he's a serious jerk.

Not at all. I don't think the conversation will even come up.

 

[zeke]

Not at all. I don't think the conversation will even come up.

Dubas will not lose a good young player over a 41yr old on a 1yr deal.

 

[ACC1224]

Dubas will not lose a good young player over a 41yr old on a 1yr deal.

You must think Dubas is a real jerk.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Muskoka 5 bring back any Leaf memories.

Ya, Muskoka 5 plus many other players (Yandle, Phaneuf, Bieksa, etc.) with NMC have refused to waive.

Remember all the gyrations that happened with the VGK expansion draft with players not waiving their NMC thus making younger, better players on teams unprotected?

Why even bother with NMC if all or nearly all players just waive them anyhow?

 

[zeke]

You must think Dubas is a real jerk.

the leafs have treated Patty like a king. there's no way for them to be jerks in this scenario.

 

[CDN24]

Even if we assume that Marleau would waive his NMC, we have to entertain the idea of what would motivate the other team to take his contract. I would guess that we would need to provide some incentive for the other team, no? Unless we believe the mission of all these other NHL teams is to help us out I guess.

If the Leafs win the cup this year I think Marleau will be happy to get his bonus July 1, waive is NMC to be traded anywhere and then retire.

But if they don't win the cup his preference will be to stay for another shot. Yeah he might waive to go to a another contender but what contender has the cap space to absorb that contract? He is not going to waive to go to Ottawa for his last season. San Jose won't have the cap space they need to extend Pavalski try to sign EK65 or replace him.

Paying the premium in another asset or pick is not the problem. Finding a team that he is willing to waive for who has the space to fit him in, that is the challenge. Then since there are so few potential fits that team if it can be found will be in a position to demand one helluva premium.

 

[Mess]

Horton on LTIR
Marleau Ret to Sharks
Trade Brown
Get rid of Zaitsev somehow

Not easy, but very doable

What is more likely to happen.

Horton in LTIR
Sign Marner - ~$10 mil X 5-6 years
Keep Brown, deal Kadri for Cap reasons, because you can't afford him. (or Kapanen) same reason.
Keep Zaitsev, Leafs only RHD capable of top 4 and let Gardiner walk as UFA can't afford to resign.
Let 38 year old Hainsey walk and resign Johnsson.

Johnson --- Matthews -- Kapanen
Hyman ---- Tavares -----Marner
Marleau -- Nylander --- Brown
Moore ---- Gauthier ---- Petan
Korshkov, Bracco

Rielly ----- Zaitsev
Muzzin --- Ozhiganov
Dermott --- Holl
Rosen

Andersen
Sparks

 

[LeafalCrusader]

What is more likely to happen.

Horton in LTIR
Sign Marner - ~$10 mil X 5-6 years
Keep Brown, deal Kadri for Cap reasons, because you can't afford him. (or Kapanen) same reason.
Keep Zaitsev, Leafs only RHD capable of top 4 and let Gardiner walk as UFA can't afford to resign.
Let 38 year old Hainsey walk and resign Johnsson.

Johnson --- Matthews -- Kapanen
Hyman ---- Tavares -----Marner
Marleau -- Nylander --- Brown
Moore ---- Gauthier ---- Petan
Korshkov, Bracco

Rielly ----- Zaitsev
Muzzin --- Ozhiganov
Dermott --- Holl
Rosen

Andersen
Sparks

 

[Buds17]

what? NMC's are more often not invoked than invoked. where do people get this idea that players always invoke their NMC?

Would depend on various circumstances. He's a player closer to the end of his career that has yet to win a Cup. He's currently on a contender/playoff bound team. If he'd like to try and win a Cup, that'd be a certain set of teams. If he'd like to try and move closer to and potentially surpass Howe's GP record - which would take signing another contract after this one obviously - that could change/expand any list. There's of course his cap hit to consider as well.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

well, there are many teams that aren't cap teams, so his caphit would be irrelevant. For those teams, he'd just be a useful vet who can still skate and score a bit and play responsibly and give some leadership, who they only need to pay $1.25m for. For teams that want to pay less than the cap, his contract is even a plus, as it gives them $5.2m of space under the cap floor.

but on top of that, we could give them another asset to sweeten the pot.

People tend to use a very small, limited number of teams such as the Coyotes. Looking at Arizona's cap situation in the 19-20 season, they have 17 players signed and $68.5 m committed to those players. That leaves just $14.5 m to sign 4 to 6 players.

Given that they'll either make or narrowly miss the playoffs this year, why not use some (or the bulk) of the remaining cap money to sign decent/good players that will help them ensure they make the playoffs, and continue to make the playoffs? Using this plan, they can generate more (playoff) revenue and be more successful as a team.

Same with Ottawa. I can see them adding a vet or two to limited term deals because they have dollars and roster slots available anyhow, and have no real need for albatross or dead-weight contracts (or near dead-weight).

 

[zeke]

Would depend on various circumstances. He's a player closer to the end of his career that has yet to win a Cup. He's currently on a contender/playoff bound team. If he'd like to try and win a Cup, that'd be a certain set of teams. If he'd like to try and move closer to and potentially surpass Howe's GP record - which would take signing another contract after this one obviously - that could change/expand any list. There's of course his cap hit to consider as well.

if all marleau cared about was winning a cup, there were better options to sign with than the very very young leafs.

 

[ACC1224]

the leafs have treated Patty like a king. there's no way for them to be jerks in this scenario.

 

[ACC1224]

Would depend on various circumstances. He's a player closer to the end of his career that has yet to win a Cup. He's currently on a contender/playoff bound team. If he'd like to try and win a Cup, that'd be a certain set of teams. If he'd like to try and move closer to and potentially surpass Howe's GP record - which would take signing another contract after this one obviously - that could change/expand any list. There's of course his cap hit to consider as well.

Don't forget he also dragged his family cross country from the only home they've known.

 

[Buds17]

if all marleau cared about was winning a cup, there were better options to sign with than the very very young leafs.

Even with three chances at it, perhaps understanding it could very well come down to that last one?

 

[zeke]

are you really trying to equatea team asking a guy if we can trade him after giving him $18m up front at age 38, to a player forcing a team to make itself worse and trade away a good longterm young player just so you can skate on the 4th line for one more year in your 40s?

 

[Mess]

Ya, Muskoka 5 plus many other players (Yandle, Phaneuf, Bieksa, etc.) with NMC have refused to waive. Remember all the gyrations that happened with the expansion draft with players not waiving their NMC thus making younger, better players on teams unprotected? Why even bother with NMC if all or nearly all players just waive them anyhow?

Players might waive their NMC to move from bad/rebuilding teams to cup competitive teams, if teams ask nicely.

Players on Cup competitive teams seldom waive them to be shipped to bottom feeders, to step aside so other players get to fulfill their dreams instead.

Marleau joined the Leafs on a 3-year deal thinking it gave him the best odds of winning a Cup, before retirement and that was before JT returned home. His NMC his guarantee he gets to see that through.

The only way Marleau retires early and doesn't care about his NMC is if Leafs win the Cup this season, as then he can go out on top.

 

[CDN24]

if all marleau cared about was winning a cup, there were better options to sign with than the very very young leafs.

At the time I think he chose the Leafs as they were the only team to offer the 3rd year. he could probabvly see they would be contenders by the 2nd and 3rd year of his deal.

 

[zeke]

At the time I think he chose the Leafs as they were the only team to offer the 3rd year. he could probabvly see they would be contenders by the 2nd and 3rd year of his deal.

likelier that this was always a nudge nudge wink wink $9mx2yrs deal that was spread over 3yrs to lower the caphit.

 

[Buds17]

Don't forget he also dragged his family cross country from the only home they've known.

Might be the optimism talking here, but there's always a chance that wasn't solely about money, no?

 

[socko]

If the Leafs win the cup this year I think Marleau will be happy to get his bonus July 1, waive is NMC to be traded anywhere and then retire.

But if they don't win the cup his preference will be to stay for another shot. Yeah he might waive to go to a another contender but what contender has the cap space to absorb that contract? He is not going to waive to go to Ottawa for his last season. San Jose won't have the cap space they need to extend Pavalski try to sign EK65 or replace him.

Paying the premium in another asset or pick is not the problem. Finding a team that he is willing to waive for who has the space to fit him in, that is the challenge. Then since there are so few potential fits that team if it can be found will be in a position to demand one helluva premium.

Marleau has 4 school age kids. It's not likely he would consider a move at this point in time. Maybe San Jose, but they won't be interested. He's almost assuredly a Leaf next season. A deal is a deal. I can see reading these threads people I would never make a deal with.

 

[ACC1224]

are you really trying to equatea team asking a guy if we can trade him after giving him $18m up front at age 38, to a player forcing a team to make itself worse and trade away a good longterm young player just so you can skate on the 4th line for one more year in your 40s?

Not trying to equate anything.
You have a very odd perception of this, just calling you on it.

 

[CDN24]

likelier that this was always a nudge nudge wink wink $9mx2yrs deal that was spread over 3yrs to lower the caphit.

I don't think that is likely. Leafs knew when the signed him that retirement would not get them out of the last years cap hit due to his age at signing. He would need to be traded elsewhere. If it was a wink wink nudge nudge contract both sides would have agreed that he had to be traded to somewhere else to retire in year 3 and there would not have been a full NMC clause in year 3. Leafs would have insisted on it to ensure he didn't change his mind if that was the case.