2019-20 Coaching Discussion: The Jon Cooper Watch

[Fabiobest]

I personally believe Cooper would be gone if there was a viable candidate to replace him right now. I don't keep up with who's available so maybe someone can shed some light on this. Are there any former players who might make good coaches? Marty would be interesting.

I'll continue to hope Coop will stay with us and will win with us.
But, in case of the Big Change, Marty will be an interesting profile.
In the professional sports, it's a very good story when a legend of a team comes to coach that team...and maybe wins with the team.
Two big examples: Rod Brind'Amour with the Canes (who has created a very good team, fun to watch it play) and Pep Guardiola with Barcelona F.C.
I love these stories.

 

[DFC]

Not a lot of guys (nobody I can think of) jumps directly from playing to coaching without several steps in between.

I'm just really, really not sure another rookie coach is the answer here. The thing about having very talented players is it's just that much harder to command their respect. If we move on from Cooper, I think we need a guy who's been around the league and had some success.

Cooper is the longest tenured coach in the NHL now, by decent measure. Coaches have shelf lives. It's just impossible to ignore all the red flags--how often we have the exact same problems, despite new talent. New talent running into the same bad habits of the vets. The offense that floats us throughout the year and then dries up completely when we need it most.

We need a big game vs. Toronto. But Toronto, in recent years, has played us like it's Game 7 of the SCF.

 

[Fabiobest]

Not a lot of guys (nobody I can think of) jumps directly from playing to coaching without several steps in between.

I'm just really, really not sure another rookie coach is the answer here. The thing about having very talented players is it's just that much harder to command their respect. If we move on from Cooper, I think we need a guy who's been around the league and had some success.

Cooper is the longest tenured coach in the NHL now, by decent measure. Coaches have shelf lives. It's just impossible to ignore all the red flags--how often we have the exact same problems, despite new talent. New talent running into the same bad habits of the vets. The offense that floats us throughout the year and then dries up completely when we need it most.

We need a big game vs. Toronto. But Toronto, in recent years, has played us like it's Game 7 of the SCF.

My first option, in case of a big change, is a Tortorella-like guy. But to be honest, out there, I don't see anyone good (also Patrick Roy, one of my names , is a big big bet).
You are probably right when you say that we don't need a first level coach but we need an experienced guy.
But remember that Guardiola, before coaching Messi, Ronaldinho, Iniesta and Xavi, was coaching the Barcelona B, in the Spanish Third League...
So it depends: the important thing, in case, will be how much power he'll have into the locker room and how much "loud" he can speak.
But, probably, JBB will choose either Halpern or Todd Richards, in case.

 

[DFC]

My first option, in case of a big change, is a Tortorella-like guy. But to be honest, out there, I don't see anyone good (also Patrick Roy, one of my names , is a big big bet).

Roy would be a disaster, IMO. I really think we need a guy who's proven. Somebody the players can't tune out because he hasn't won anything more than they have (at least not as a coach).

You are probably right when you say that we don't need a first level coach but we need an experienced guy.
But remember that Guardiola, before coaching Messi, Ronaldinho, Iniesta and Xavi, was coaching the Barcelona B, in the Spanish Third League...
So it depends: the important thing, in case, will be how much power he'll have into the locker room and how much "loud" he can speak.
But, probably, JBB will choose either Halpern or Todd Richards, in case.

I think Richards would be the interim guy, if it comes to that. And we might promote from within, but I don't know that it would help.

I mean, it's not like rookie coaches can't win with experienced teams. We saw it in Pittsburgh. But Pittsburgh had a fantastic leadership group, and their core already had a cup. Our group is a lot more unproven. I think we're more like the Capitals before they brought in Trotz.

 

[Fabiobest]

Roy would be a disaster, IMO. I really think we need a guy who's proven. Somebody the players can't tune out because he hasn't won anything more than they have (at least not as a coach).



I think Richards would be the interim guy, if it comes to that. And we might promote from within, but I don't know that it would help.

I mean, it's not like rookie coaches can't win with experienced teams. We saw it in Pittsburgh. But Pittsburgh had a fantastic leadership group, and their core already had a cup. Our group is a lot more unproven. I think we're more like the Capitals before they brought in Trotz.

I don't think JBB will choose Roy, in his entire GM career It's easier that he'll ask me if I'm available to coach the team
You're right about Pens: they've/had a strong leadership and Sullivan was a perfect fit for them (also because the previous one was a hot garbage).
In case, I don't see out there, a strong name for us. I'd pay with my money to hire Torts...

 

[CupsOverCash]

I don't think JBB will choose Roy, in his entire GM career It's easier that he'll ask me if I'm available to coach the team
You're right about Pens: they've/had a strong leadership and Sullivan was a perfect fit for them (also because the previous one was a hot garbage).
In case, I don't see out there, a strong name for us. I'd pay with my money to hire Torts...

Can you trade coaches? Torts would be a fit here for what the team needs but would they just trade for the coach of the team that they just swept? Highly unlikely.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

How many cups did he win? Lmao

Hahah I know right, yet nobody wants him and now hes retired.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

My first option, in case of a big change, is a Tortorella-like guy. But to be honest, out there, I don't see anyone good (also Patrick Roy, one of my names , is a big big bet).
You are probably right when you say that we don't need a first level coach but we need an experienced guy.
But remember that Guardiola, before coaching Messi, Ronaldinho, Iniesta and Xavi, was coaching the Barcelona B, in the Spanish Third League...
So it depends: the important thing, in case, will be how much power he'll have into the locker room and how much "loud" he can speak.
But, probably, JBB will choose either Halpern or Todd Richards, in case.

Guardiola is a generational talent in coaching, don't think we have anybody like him in the pipeline (I was hoping Coop would be something like him)

 

[Todd1a]

Hahah I know right, yet nobody wants him and now hes retired.

Sutter doesn’t want to coach his family had a cattle farm like 3000 acres that he runs and works in now

 

[Todd1a]

I think some of you are jumping off the cliff with Coop and I get it, but its still an overreaction at this point.

I have a feeling that wholesale roster changes come before canning the guy that just got a big extension. I would expect some combination of Johnson, Palat, Killorn out the door instead. They need new blood.

We already changed like 25 percent of the roster and the only guy without a ntc next offseason is killorn

 

[Leonardo87]

Isn't Darryl Sutter just hanging around out there or did somebody nab him up?

Sutter is working for the Ducks as a coaching advisor.

 

[Zwui21]

I would love a Torts type as our coach, but lets face it Coop is not going anywhere until its too late.

So what do we do? How do we adapt?

If we don't get AT LEAST to the Stanley Cup Finals this season I think he'll be canned in the summer

 

[Sky04]

We already changed like 25 percent of the roster and the only guy without a ntc next offseason is killorn

No kidding, Cooper got a 90 point center for free and #1 defenseman in the span of a year and we're talking about "major roster changes" like moving some 2nd and 3rd line wingers

 

[bov]

Marty could be a great coach down the road, that would be pretty awesome to see someday. Still, we could have another 50+ win season and people will be complaining about Cooper all the way through. I don't think he's an elite coach by any means, but this group of players is just as guilty as he is at this point imo. Barring an absolutely terrible start, I'd rather see the kinks get worked out and ride or die with this group one last time.

Let's see what happens with a healthy lineup and 10-20 games...Many of the mistakes I've seen in the early going (even dating back to the playoffs) have little to do with structure or coaching, but simply individual "compete" level and discipline. Don't get me wrong, there are times we look beyond disjointed... but at the the same time it's not Coop's fault someone like Kucherov can loaf around and decide to play hard when he sees fit. Stamkos generally makes 1-3 plays a game that would get a fringe player benched. Conversely, players like Point, Cirelli, Killorn and Palat seem to stick to "structure" quite well and have no problem playing disciplined, responsible hockey on a consistent basis.

I remember McDonagh being interviewed last playoffs after one of the losses, and he implied that the coaches were doing their best to make adjustments, but the players simply weren't carrying it out. I just think the blame needs to be spread around a little more, and "Fire Cooper" is the low hanging fruit.

 

[Sky04]

Marty could be a great coach down the road, that would be pretty awesome to see someday. Still, we could have another 50+ win season and people will be complaining about Cooper all the way through. I don't think he's an elite coach by any means, but this group of players is just as guilty as he is at this point imo. Barring an absolutely terrible start, I'd rather see the kinks get worked out and ride or die with this group one last time.

Let's see what happens with a healthy lineup and 10-20 games...Many of the mistakes I've seen in the early going (even dating back to the playoffs) have little to do with structure or coaching, but simply individual "compete" level and discipline. Don't get me wrong, there are times we look beyond disjointed... but at the the same time it's not Coop's fault someone like Kucherov can loaf around and decide to play hard when he sees fit. Stamkos generally makes 1-3 plays a game that would get a fringe player benched. Conversely, players like Point, Cirelli, Killorn and Palat seem to stick to "structure" quite well and have no problem playing disciplined, responsible hockey on a consistent basis.

I remember McDonagh being interviewed last playoffs after one of the losses, and he implied that the coaches were doing their best to make adjustments, but the players simply weren't carrying it out. I just think the blame needs to be spread around a little more, and "Fire Cooper" is the low hanging fruit.

What does a coach do again?

Is Cooper the towel boy who wipes down the bench or is he the guy decides who plays and who sits for dumb mistakes?

 

[Todd1a]

No kidding, Cooper got a 90 point center for free and #1 defenseman in the span of a year and we're talking about "major roster changes" like moving some 2nd and 3rd line wingers

Since cooper has been here since 2013 how much of a turn over have we had on the roster ? More then enough. After the season his time is up its time to move on from cooper!

 

[Fabiobest]

Can you trade coaches? Torts would be a fit here for what the team needs but would they just trade for the coach of the team that they just swept? Highly unlikely.

I've never seen a trade with the coaches involved...It's highly unlikely it'll happen...

 

[Fabiobest]

Guardiola is a generational talent in coaching, don't think we have anybody like him in the pipeline (I was hoping Coop would be something like him)

Totally agree with you: Guardiola is special. He's probably the best one in his generation (at least in soccer).
But it's a beautiful story: a Barcelona midfielder, a legend as a player who became coach of the same team and who won with the same team.
For this reason I'm dreaming about Marty with us. but I know that, now, it's only a (beautiful) dream.

 

[The Macho King]

Let's see if Scotty Bowman wants to go for another Cup.

 

[PJ817]

Our head coach Steven Stamkos! Proud of this guy! He had the guts to call out the players! https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tsn.ca/steven-stamkos-sounds-off-on-tampa-bay-lightning-s-poor-start-1.1377592?tsn-amp

Actually, that is MY quote that I posted on Twitter and @ 'd him... glad he found meaning in it

2nd, since March 2017, I've said Cooper too soft (downvoted to oblivion last year and that year on /r)

2014: playoffs -WWOOOOO
2015: Unfinished Business #1 (THE SIGNS!!! I have them)
2016: Unfinished Business #2 (MOAR SIGNSSSS I have them too! or is that 2??)
2017: Unfinished Business #3 (MOARRRR SIGNAGESSS! I have them too; came with my STM seats/packages)
2018: Unfinished Business #4 (MOREEEEE SIGNSSSAGSSS! I have those as well)
2019: Unfinished Business #5 (MOaRRR MOREEE SIGNAGGESSS!!!)
2020: Unfinished Business #6 - I called it in April of last year, reiterated it in June, July, Aug that THIS TEAM with THIS COACH will miss the playoffs

Nothing has changed my mind. Yes, 3 games in but it's that lack of passion that I've seen for 5 years now that concerns me... and that starts with the head of the snake team: Coop

 

[bov]

What does a coach do again?

Is Cooper the towel boy who wipes down the bench or is he the guy decides who plays and who sits for dumb mistakes?

Cooper doesn't need to bench two of our best players to make them realize their faults. They are grown men who have been in the league for years and know damn well what they're doing badly. Obviously, star players (let alone the captain of the team) virtually never get benched regardless of how poor they play, so expecting that to happen and faulting Cooper for not doing so with the likes of Stamkos and Kucherov would be asinine.

My point is, plenty of the mistakes that cost this team are made by the players completely independent of who is behind the bench and regardless of the structure we employ.

 

[Sky04]

Cooper doesn't need to bench two of our best players to make them realize their faults. They are grown men who have been in the league for years and know damn well what they're doing badly. Obviously, star players (let alone the captain of the team) virtually never get benched regardless of how poor they play, so expecting that to happen and faulting Cooper for not doing so with the likes of Stamkos and Kucherov would be asinine.

My point is, plenty of the mistakes that cost this team are made by the players completely independent of who is behind the bench and regardless of the structure we employ.

So Cooper doesn't coach, sounds about right.

Actually, your point is moot because the players have constantly changed, the mistakes are still made and there has only been one guy behind the bench in the last 6 years. Hmmm...

 

[The Macho King]

I'm honestly agog we still have Cooper defenders.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

I'm honestly agog we still have Cooper defenders.

Yeah, me too.
I mean, it's not like we are not blaming the players too, Kuch got his share in the Canes thread, and deservedly so btw

 

[bov]

So Cooper doesn't coach, sounds about right.

Actually, your point is moot because the players have constantly changed, the mistakes are still made and there has only been one guy behind the bench in the last 6 years. Hmmm...

Benching two players of that calibre is basically unprecedented, let's not act like that is realistic in any way. Feel free to show me any situation where that has actually worked positively for the players, team and coach.

If you want to fault the coach for completely unforced and careless mistakes out of his control, then so be it. I get debating structure, lineup decisions, special teams etc., but I find Cooper takes blame for things that are absolutely not his doing.

How about our young guys who have turned into some of the premier 2 way forwards in the game? Like I said before, players like Point and Cirelli caught on just fine (not to mention the Killorns and Palats) and manage to play very responsibly and within our structure all the time. In spite of Cooper, I guess?

I'm not even a Cooper fan, but I see him taking heat when often times, we are victimized by careless or soft plays. You can want him to fix that til the cows come home, but the responsibility ultimately lies on the guys making those unforced mistakes imo.

Edit: Can't spell