2019-20 Coaching Discussion: The Jon Cooper Watch

[Lord Stan 2020]

Well 3 games in... I said it before preseason said it at end last year and will say it again.... We need him gone ..... He is not the right guy for this team if he ever was can be argued but right now today? I saw the posts and honestly if we are playing like this at thanksgiving as someone said ehem we will miss the playoffs... Unacceptable i have no belief in cooper and maybe he lost this team.... Just my two cents so he is now on watch.... sadly honestly but he is on watch....

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[FinnLightning26]

I wouldn't be opposed to bringing in a hardass that lets the players know when they're dicking around too much. We don't need the perfect system I think. Just someone who will light a fire under their asses when needed.

 

[God King Fudge]

There is less than a zero chance they do anything with him until after this season. JBB isn't going to defend the guy and then dump him mid season. He'll get this season. He'll also stay if they have a strong showing in the playoffs, even if they go out in the second.

The only way Cooper loses his job is if they have a disaster like last season, or if they lose in a game 7 where they have little to no signs of life like they have against the Pens and Caps.

 

[These Are The Days]

Live footage of HF Lightning if Torts was fired and came to Tampa

 

[LightningStrikes]

We have changed about every face on the coaching staff at least once during Cooper’s tenure (except for Cooper obviously) but the outcome has ultimately been always the same. The team has no heart. The team can’t adapt. They look lost. They sulk on the bench and seem to be skating through wet concrete. They rely entirely on their skill and speed and goaltending to bail them out. We rarely see in-game adjustments or a plan B. Heck, I’m not even sure there is a plan A on most nights. When the going gets tough just hope for one guy to go into Super Saiyan mode and for your goalie to stand on their head. If they don’t - too bad, it wasn’t our time, the other team had bounces going their way, what can ya do? Because there sure as hell are no answers coming from the bench boss when we face adversity.

 

[Coopers Gum]

We have changed about every face on the coaching staff at least once during Cooper’s tenure (except for Cooper obviously) but the outcome has ultimately been always the same. The team has no heart. The team can’t adapt. They look lost. They sulk on the bench and seem to be skating through wet concrete. They rely entirely on their skill and speed and goaltending to bail them out. We rarely see in-game adjustments or a plan B. Heck, I’m not even sure there is a plan A on most nights. When the going gets tough just hope for one guy to go into Super Saiyan mode and for your goalie to stand on their head. If they don’t - too bad, it wasn’t our time, the other team had bounces going their way, what can ya do? Because there sure as hell are no answers coming from the bench boss when we face adversity.

If I remember correctly, Boucher's last game was against the Devils. And that game, the Bolts looked very much the same. No heart, just disinterested, making really shitty plays.

And then Boucher was fired.

One game doesn't determine a firing obviously. But if JBB is as smart as we think he is, the Carolina game is definitely on the radar.

 

[Rschmitz]

Not going to happen unless we are so bad we are tanking the season anyways.

 

[Todd1a]

Get him out put halpren or Richards in there

 

[Todd1a]

Well 3 games in... I said it before preseason said it at end last year and will say it again.... We need him gone ..... He is not the right guy for this team if he ever was can be argued but right now today? I saw the posts and honestly if we are playing like this at thanksgiving as someone said ehem we will miss the playoffs... Unacceptable i have no belief in cooper and maybe he lost this team.... Just my two cents so he is now on watch.... sadly honestly but he is on watch....

Our management and owner is too hard headed to see this! They think still they can win a cup with cooper!

 

[DFC]

If I remember correctly, Boucher's last game was against the Devils. And that game, the Bolts looked very much the same. No heart, just disinterested, making really ****ty plays.

And then Boucher was fired.

One game doesn't determine a firing obviously. But if JBB is as smart as we think he is, the Carolina game is definitely on the radar.

I thought it was a sequence of Winnipeg and Toronto? Maybe the Devils were after those? I remember the Leaf game was the one where it was beyond clear that the team had quit.

I don't think we're there yet. But I think we could be there relatively quickly (two months of sub-standard play?).

 

[T REX]

Once he's lost the lockerroom...it's over. Imho...the players do not believe in coopers system any longer.

 

[These Are The Days]

I thought it was a sequence of Winnipeg and Toronto? Maybe the Devils were after those? I remember the Leaf game was the one where it was beyond clear that the team had quit.

I don't think we're there yet. But I think we could be there relatively quickly (two months of sub-standard play?).

The Ottawa game between Winnipeg and Toronto was the most damning. They all but quit until a late attempt to salvage the game. Carolina felt like that game but in reverse. I don't think Cooper is a bad coach, I wouldn't be surprised if he won a Cup elsewhere one day. But if getting swept after winning 62 games can't break the bond between coach and team after so many previous failures I don't know what will. I'm not convinced he's the guy for us anymore. And I wanted him to be.

I have no doubt the Wings would have eventually quit on Scotty had he gone through this long without a Cup. That's not meant to compare either but rather that I believe it doesn't matter how good you are. If you can't win the big one your guys will probably want another voice to lead them. Scotty was the GOAT because of the fact he DID get those stacked teams to win. Guys can hold out a few years but after half a dozen? Yeah I'm not surprised we look like we did last night

 

[DFC]

The Ottawa game between Winnipeg and Toronto was the most damning. They all but quit until a late attempt to salvage the game. Carolina felt like that game but in reverse. I don't think Cooper is a bad coach, I wouldn't be surprised if he won a Cup elsewhere one day. But if getting swept after winning 62 games can't break the bond between coach and team after so many previous failures I don't know what will. I'm not convinced he's the guy for us anymore. And I wanted him to be.

I have no doubt the Wings would have eventually quit on Scotty had he gone through this long without a Cup. That's not meant to compare either but rather that I believe it doesn't matter how good you are. If you can't win the big one your guys will probably want another voice to lead them. Scotty was the GOAT because of the fact he DID get those stacked teams to win. Guys can hold out a few years but after half a dozen? Yeah I'm not surprised we look like we did last night

The idea that stacked teams don't need a coach is more of a baseball thing. In hockey, it seems like that makes the coach even more important.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

I would love a Torts type as our coach, but lets face it Coop is not going anywhere until its too late.

So what do we do? How do we adapt?

 

[DFC]

I would love a Torts type as our coach, but lets face it Coop is not going anywhere until its too late.

So what do we do? How do we adapt?

I think that's true if we get it together and coast into the playoffs. If we're struggling mid-season? I think the heat goes way up. He only survived the sweep because the 62 wins immunized him. But his most recent history is now the most humiliating series in team sports history. Can't pile much bad stuff onto that.

 

[DMB06]

I personally believe Cooper would be gone if there was a viable candidate to replace him right now. I don't keep up with who's available so maybe someone can shed some light on this. Are there any former players who might make good coaches? Marty would be interesting.

 

[Todd1a]

Every coach has been changed by all the nhl teams other then us since cooper has been hired ? I don't understand why he is still here ? ok if we won the cup in 2015 then I would get why he was still here but he lost.

 

[Todd1a]

I personally believe Cooper would be gone if there was a viable candidate to replace him right now. I don't keep up with who's available so maybe someone can shed some light on this. Are there any former players who might make good coaches? Marty would be interesting.

Really would not matter to me right now just get him out get different leadership! for crying out loud Stamkos had to call the team out! so stamkos is the captain and coach! Make Richards or Halpren the head Coach already!

 

[Maelmoor]

Really would not matter to me right now just get him out get different leadership! for crying out loud Stamkos had to call the team out! so stamkos is the captain and coach! Make Richards or Halpren the head Coach already!

The coaching staff work closely together nowadays, it's not like Cooper says "this is how we will play and you will accept it". They would discuss such matters between them and while Coop is the head coach and has the final say, the other's are onboard with it, otherwise they wouldn't be around. So if it comes to a point where the head coach is replaced, then it would make sense to pick someone "fresh" who will get his own staff.

With that said, I find it funny that during the last regular season the credit went to the players, then when it ended like it did in the playoffs Cooper was to be blamed, now after three games it's once again Coopers fault but if we start to win then I bet it's thanks to the players...

I really find it difficult to accept that the players have no accountability (other than a scapegoat now and then, like Rutta currently). So with the assumption that some here have, that the players are tired of Cooper, then they stop caring? To me that sounds very childish and amateurish. They are pros, they are paid huge amount of money, are we not to put any demands on the players? If we play well, credit should go to both players and coaches, if we play badly, blame should be on both coaches and players (in general terms)

 

[DMB06]

The coaching staff work closely together nowadays, it's not like Cooper says "this is how we will play and you will accept it". They would discuss such matters between them and while Coop is the head coach and has the final say, the other's are onboard with it, otherwise they wouldn't be around. So if it comes to a point where the head coach is replaced, then it would make sense to pick someone "fresh" who will get his own staff.

With that said, I find it funny that during the last regular season the credit went to the players, then when it ended like it did in the playoffs Cooper was to be blamed, now after three games it's once again Coopers fault but if we start to win then I bet it's thanks to the players...

I really find it difficult to accept that the players have no accountability (other than a scapegoat now and then, like Rutta currently). So with the assumption that some here have, that the players are tired of Cooper, then they stop caring? To me that sounds very childish and amateurish. They are pros, they are paid huge amount of money, are we not to put any demands on the players? If we play well, credit should go to both players and coaches, if we play badly, blame should be on both coaches and players (in general terms)

Of course they go along with it, they want to keep their jobs. Maybe when their contracts are up they'll leave if they don't agree, but they aren't going to cause a mutiny in the locker room if things aren't going how they want.

Our players got credit last season because we have a historically great team in terms of talent. We have several players who would immediately be the best player on many other teams. You probably won't see a team with this much talent again for the rest of your life, that's a realistic possibility.

The number one reason I blame Cooper is because we have bad tendencies, which Stamkos himself pointed out after our last game, that we keep falling back into. Cooper is responsible for holding players accountable if they continue to do these things, but he doesn't. He has allowed this to become the norm, and the players clearly don't fear any type of repercussions. I believe he's more interested in being their friend than coach, and I believe the team has taken on his soft mentality.

 

[DFC]

The coaching staff work closely together nowadays, it's not like Cooper says "this is how we will play and you will accept it". They would discuss such matters between them and while Coop is the head coach and has the final say, the other's are onboard with it, otherwise they wouldn't be around. So if it comes to a point where the head coach is replaced, then it would make sense to pick someone "fresh" who will get his own staff.

With that said, I find it funny that during the last regular season the credit went to the players, then when it ended like it did in the playoffs Cooper was to be blamed, now after three games it's once again Coopers fault but if we start to win then I bet it's thanks to the players...

Because we weren't winning games based on any kind of system. We were winning games because we had a ridiculous amount of skill and outscored our troubles when need be. And when we lost in the playoffs, it was clearly because we had no answer for another coach's disciplined system. (Stamkos literally said CBJ had a gameplan, and TB had no answer for it; I don't know how to take that other than "Their coach schooled our coach.")

Even so, Cooper did get a lot of credit last year during the season.

I really find it difficult to accept that the players have no accountability (other than a scapegoat now and then, like Rutta currently). So with the assumption that some here have, that the players are tired of Cooper, then they stop caring? To me that sounds very childish and amateurish. They are pros, they are paid huge amount of money, are we not to put any demands on the players? If we play well, credit should go to both players and coaches, if we play badly, blame should be on both coaches and players (in general terms)

I'm not sure where this idea that "No one is blaming the players" is coming from. You can check any GDT and see pretty much every single player taking a heap of criticism. That was even more true in the playoffs.

Also, quitting on coaches is a real thing. It's not childish--it happens to a lot of teams, including teams that go on to win Stanley Cups under other coaches. It's not about not caring. It's about not believing your coach is the guy who's gonna lead you to a Cup.

It doesn't matter how good you are, or how good your teammates are. If your coach isn't giving you a gameplan that can win, you're gonna lose, and that may or may not be dawning on some of our players right now.

 

[These Are The Days]

The idea that stacked teams don't need a coach is more of a baseball thing. In hockey, it seems like that makes the coach even more important.

Completely agreed. Winning the Cup is so hard. Just because you're stacked is no guarantee. Just ask the Blues and Caps

 

[LightningStrikes]

The coaching staff work closely together nowadays, it's not like Cooper says "this is how we will play and you will accept it". They would discuss such matters between them and while Coop is the head coach and has the final say, the other's are onboard with it, otherwise they wouldn't be around. So if it comes to a point where the head coach is replaced, then it would make sense to pick someone "fresh" who will get his own staff.

With that said, I find it funny that during the last regular season the credit went to the players, then when it ended like it did in the playoffs Cooper was to be blamed, now after three games it's once again Coopers fault but if we start to win then I bet it's thanks to the players...

I really find it difficult to accept that the players have no accountability (other than a scapegoat now and then, like Rutta currently). So with the assumption that some here have, that the players are tired of Cooper, then they stop caring? To me that sounds very childish and amateurish. They are pros, they are paid huge amount of money, are we not to put any demands on the players? If we play well, credit should go to both players and coaches, if we play badly, blame should be on both coaches and players (in general terms)

Oh I blame the players too. But replacing the head coach is a lot easier than say Stamkos or Kucherov, let alone an entire core. We see the same bad habits from three years ago. Nobody holds them accountable. At some point we have to acknowledge that Cooper’s laisser-faire approach and “maybe next time” attitude has failed. With a new coach comes a new mentality. Every player has to prove himself once again. Pittsburgh or most recently St. Louis are a prime example of that: Teams with lots of talent who nonetheless found themselves in a downwards spiral and a rut turned it around after replacing their HC and with it their culture.

When your captain is openly airing his frustration after just game 3 of 82 and hints that there is no structure or game plan let alone any repercussions for bad play or a “I don’t give a shit” attitude just after last season’s epic collapse then something’s going very wrong.

Our trademarked 3rd period comebacks aren’t a result of Cooper’s system, but he’s gained the laurels for it. But a few guys forcing the team to win through individual effort very rarely wins you a Cup. You’d think Coop would have learned from it but apparently no.

 

[DFC]

Oh I blame the players too. But replacing the head coach is a lot easier than say Stamkos or Kucherov, let alone an entire core. We see the same bad habits from three years ago. Nobody holds them accountable. At some point we have to acknowledge that Cooper’s laisser-faire approach and “maybe next time” attitude has failed. With a new coach comes a new mentality. Every player has to prove himself once again. Pittsburgh or most recently St. Louis is a prime example of that. Teams with lots of talent who nonetheless found themselves in a downwards spiral and a rut turned it around after replacing their HC and with it their culture.

When your captain is openly airing his frustration after just game 3 of 82 and hints that there is no structure or game plan let alone any repercussions for bad play or a “I don’t give a ****” attitude just after last season’s epic collapse then something’s going very wrong.

Here's an even more telling sign though: We see familiar bad habits grow on new players who never had them before.

For instance, Anthony Cirelli looked fantastic in the pre-season. And now all of a sudden the season starts and this guy, whose reputation is all about grit, hard work, and making simple plays, looks like he's trying to be a globetrotter and is passing out of Grade A opportunities.

It's such a common theme with our team that there's no way it's a coincidence.

 

[Todd1a]

Our head coach Steven Stamkos! Proud of this guy! He had the guts to call out the players! https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ts...-bay-lightning-s-poor-start-1.1377592?tsn-amp