2019-20 Coaching Discussion: The Jon Cooper Watch

[DFC]

Lalonde handles the Defense, Halpern the Powerplay/Forwards, and Richards oversees them all as Cooper's #2.

It obviously ain't working and I'm just some guy behind a keyboard but... how hard is it to just skate the ****ing puck out of the zone and let the play develop in the offensive zone? It's not like this D-Corps can't skate with the puck, right?

I think the execution is, we're trying to slow the game down to not only prevent early-season burnout, but to pace each game with the forwards we have now. And its costing us. I'm exaggerating a bit but I think we've had as many Too Many Men penalties so far than by the All-Star break last season. So many bad changes. Dumb penalties overall. And if it don't look right, they hold and thus (like you said), the opponent is set up and waiting for us by the time we transition.

Except it really does look like 2016 and 2017, where we were trying to win every game 2-1. Suddenly we would get an odd man rush once every three or four games, as opposed to the last two seasons, where we changed it up and they happened quite often. There was a big emphasis on pushing the puck up ice immediately. That came in with Halpern, but it seems to be gone again.

The TMM penalties, at least this many, can't be anything but a sign that the team is losing focus.

I'm all for Cooper trying to make a change to gear us toward playoff success (and save his job), but I think, if we're being honest about, we also have to recognize that, if it doesn't get results, and so far it hasn't, then it's long past time to move on.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

The main issue I have with Cooper is not even system-based. When this team is/was playing at 100%, they can compete with the best ones, despite being completely annihilated 5v5 against Cup contenders, their opportunism & skills almost made it up for it. I [almost] can live with that.

We all know Tampa's main weakness is just a plain, recurring complacency tho. & the thing I'm fed up with is the lack of accountability the time they display an unacceptable effort on the ice. I'll say it again, it was nice to see Cooper babysitting this group until it blossomed, he was the right coach at the right time. The kids have been since seasoned by experience tho, & mature pro players do need to be nurtured anymore. It feels just like the end of an era, & different times requires a different approach.

 

[Coopers Gum]

Yep, agree with the above poster. Been saying it for a while. Cooper WAS the guy we needed. He's not anymore. Simple as that.

Effective for our guys when they were trying to find their way in the NHL and boost their confidence. Now that they're established, they need a new voice I think.

I also think there is never this much smoke without fire. That we are reading into players quotes too much may be true... but this doesn't get the discussions we are having if there are zero problems in the locker room.

 

[Rschmitz]

Yep, agree with the above poster. Been saying it for a while. Cooper WAS the guy we needed. He's not anymore. Simple as that.

Effective for our guys when they were trying to find their way in the NHL and boost their confidence. Now that they're established, they need a new voice I think.

I also think there is never this much smoke without fire. That we are reading into players quotes too much may be true... but this doesn't get the discussions we are having if there are zero problems in the locker room.

Every locker room has problems, they are just less apparent if the team is living up to or above expectations.

Agreed that he doesn't seem like the guy anymore, but...who is the guy we need to bring in?

 

[These Are The Days]

Every locker room has problems, they are just less apparent if the team is living up to or above expectations.

Agreed that he doesn't seem like the guy anymore, but...who is the guy we need to bring in?

Honest to God.... if we putter out in the playoffs again and the Leafs fire Babcock we gotta go after him. Sign the guy for 3 years, try to win a Cup and if we do we get down on our knees, praise Jobu, praise Yzerman, praise JBB and offer all of them cigars and rum. We move on from Babcock and start a mini-rebuild with hopefully whoever replaces Benoit Groulx in Syracuse-if not Groulx himself if he is still with us at that point. I have to imagine in another 3 years or so it's gonna be time for guys like Palat, Killorn and Johnson to move on.

We are going to H.A.T.E Babs. He is too stubborn, plays favorites too much, has an insatiable hard on fo vets and is the kind of guy who would pass up Marty St. Louis on team Canada despite the fact he led the NHL in points the previous season. You figure it out. But who is gonna give a shit if we win it all? He is purely an "all in" move for a short run and nothing more because as DFC puts it, he gets his stacked as hell teams to play like machines. I'll be damned if that isn't an accurate adjective.

 

[Rschmitz]

Honest to God.... if we putter out in the playoffs again and the Leafs fire Babcock we gotta go after him. Sign the guy for 3 years, try to win a Cup and if we do we get down on our knees, praise Jobu, praise Yzerman, praise JBB and offer all of them cigars and rum. We move on from Babcock and start a mini-rebuild with hopefully whoever replaces Benoit Groulx in Syracuse-if not Groulx himself if he is still with us at that point. I have to imagine in another 3 years or so it's gonna be time for guys like Palat, Killorn and Johnson to move on.

We are going to H.A.T.E Babs. He is too stubborn, plays favorites too much, has an insatiable hard on fo vets and is the kind of guy who would pass up Marty St. Louis on team Canada despite the fact he led the NHL in points the previous season. You figure it out. But who is gonna give a **** if we win it all? He is purely an "all in" move for a short run and nothing more because as DFC puts it, he gets his stacked as hell teams to play like machines. I'll be damned if that isn't an accurate adjective.

We complain that Cooper plays Killorn too much, Babcock would be playing him 20+ a night.

 

[God King Fudge]

I don't see Babcock as an answer to anything. I think he's so unbelievably overrated.

This is my view on firing Cooper. I keep seeing "Well who replaces him?" and my response is: Is repeated failure acceptable just because there's no one immediately better? Do you let a 10 year employee constantly fail to meet goals just because he has experience? Or do you find someone without the experience who might fail as well, but at least you tried?

You can't continue to waste years of this window. We've already lost a couple. To continue to allow Cooper to coach is to say you're fine with wasting more time. I'd respect a move much more, even if it doesn't work in the end. At least you tried something.

 

[These Are The Days]

We can't try and fail with this group. Babs is a terribly overrated hackjob and yet all he does with stacked ass teams is win with them. The whole reason he is overrated to begin with is because he only wins with stacked teams. Lucky for us we're stacked to the gills boys

I don't give two shits about Babcock. The only thing thats gonna make me happy is seeing Stamkos polish off the rest of a bottle of champagne out of the Cup before Kucherov, Volkov, Sergachev and Vasilevskiy pour a bottle of vodka straight from the motherland into it and take turns draining it out

Babs is a means to this end only



On that note "Russian Standard" feels like a great nickname for Kucherov. It's time he got one

 

[DFC]

We complain that Cooper plays Killorn too much, Babcock would be playing him 20+ a night.

Probably. But Killorn also has his best moments in the playoffs, and I really wish that was true for a few more guys on this team.

It's well-known that Killorn has never scored 20 goals in a season. It's not quite as well known that he has 21 goals in just 68 playoff games.

 

[PJ817]

What about Maurice in Winterpeg? My first choice was Q but JBB being the i.dot passed him up for extending Coopdapoop

Maurice did a good lot with a far less talented team outside of Laine, Helly, Trouba... yes, those guys hated him but hate lasts only a short while when you're winning...

My other choice would be? Torts... I did not live here when he coached though I did watch from MN when Bolts beat Calgary.

My last choice/no choice is Babs. What an overrated i.dot. Friends of mine in TOR hate him - you have the #1 pick in Matthews and during the playoffs because Babs didn't like his attitude, he benched him the entire 3rd period. What kind of fool does that to burn your whole team in a G7? That's worse coaching than gum-chewer and I can't stand the gum-chewer but give him credit, he would not bench Kuch in G7.

 

[Felonious Python]

What about Maurice in Winterpeg? My first choice was Q but JBB being the i.dot passed him up for extending Coopdapoop

Maurice did a good lot with a far less talented team outside of Laine, Helly, Trouba... yes, those guys hated him but hate lasts only a short while when you're winning...

My other choice would be? Torts... I did not live here when he coached though I did watch from MN when Bolts beat Calgary.

My last choice/no choice is Babs. What an overrated i.dot. Friends of mine in TOR hate him - you have the #1 pick in Matthews and during the playoffs because Babs didn't like his attitude, he benched him the entire 3rd period. What kind of fool does that to burn your whole team in a G7? That's worse coaching than gum-chewer and I can't stand the gum-chewer but give him credit, he would not bench Kuch in G7.

Paul Maurice is a tough coach to figure out. He's had a long NHL career, but taken a lot of L's. Now, the teams he was given in Carolina and Toronto weren't the best, so how do you evaluate that?

Maurice's career records
Paul Maurice Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com
(I prefer HockeyDB to EP for coaching records)

On a systems level, Maurice is primarily known as a defensive-oriented coach. The Canes during his tenure also became huge divers. (Second tenure. I don't remember quite that far back on the first one)

The Jets haven't gotten to where they need to be, which is the most important comparison here. Taking everything together, I would think that Maurice is definitely a good hockey coach, but not really one I think TBL would be attracted to, if he became available.

 

[PJ817]

Paul Maurice is a tough coach to figure out. He's had a long NHL career, but taken a lot of L's. Now, the teams he was given in Carolina and Toronto weren't the best, so how do you evaluate that?

Maurice's career records
Paul Maurice Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com
(I prefer HockeyDB to EP for coaching records)

On a systems level, Maurice is primarily known as a defensive-oriented coach. The Canes during his tenure also became huge divers. (Second tenure. I don't remember quite that far back on the first one)

The Jets haven't gotten to where they need to be, which is the most important comparison here. Taking everything together, I would think that Maurice is definitely a good hockey coach, but not really one I think TBL would be attracted to, if he became available.

1. I don't go by coaching records alone; because in that case, why not Boudreau? or Yeo?

2. Maurice has not had a team like the Bolts, ever, in any capacity. He has the tenacity and grit (a@#holishness) to fire up a lazy bunch o'turds.

If choices were Babs or Maurice? I'd take Maurice in a heart beat. My first choice was always Q... but JBB is too dumb/struck/inane to have seen that.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

Mike Yeo is dogshit. I've watched enough of his god awful hockey teams to know I don't want that guy in the same f***ing city let alone behind the bench.

 

[VinikToWinIt]

Yep, agree with the above poster. Been saying it for a while. Cooper WAS the guy we needed. He's not anymore. Simple as that.

Effective for our guys when they were trying to find their way in the NHL and boost their confidence. Now that they're established, they need a new voice I think.

I also think there is never this much smoke without fire. That we are reading into players quotes too much may be true... but this doesn't get the discussions we are having if there are zero problems in the locker room.

Betrayed by his beloved gum. That can't feel good.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

My first choice was always Q... but JBB is too dumb/struck/inane to have seen that.

Obviously it was because Julien was dumb and had nothing to do with already having a coach (and extending him) and being like 3 weeks from the start of the NHL playoffs with a team that was on pace for a league record in wins.

 

[DaBolts]

I can't get off work and watch it live so please, keep my updated if someone bitchslaps that damned gum out of his mouth with a stray stick if we are losing by more than 3 goals.

 

[PJ817]

Mike Yeo is dog****. I've watched enough of his god awful hockey teams to know I don't want that guy in the same ****ing city let alone behind the bench.

Did you actually understand what I wrote? I basically said the same thing

Obviously it was because Julien was dumb and had nothing to do with already having a coach (and extending him) and being like 3 weeks from the start of the NHL playoffs with a team that was on pace for a league record in wins.

Because we all reaped the rewards from

Unfinished Business #1 (2014)
Unfinished Business #2 (2015)
Unfinished Business #3 (2016)
Unfinished Business #4 (2017)
Unfinished Business #5 (2018)
Unfinished Business #6 (2019)

and thought, what the heck, let's go for Unfinished Business #7

JBB is blinded by his loyalty to a coach that is no longer the right coach for this team.

Period

 

[Todd1a]

Did you actually understand what I wrote? I basically said the same thing



Because we all reaped the rewards from

Unfinished Business #1 (2014)
Unfinished Business #2 (2015)
Unfinished Business #3 (2016)
Unfinished Business #4 (2017)
Unfinished Business #5 (2018)
Unfinished Business #6 (2019)

and thought, what the heck, let's go for Unfinished Business #7

JBB is blinded by his loyalty to a coach that is no longer the right coach for this team.

Period

yep how many lives does cooper get 9 like a cat ?

 

[LTIR Trickery]

Did you actually understand what I wrote? I basically said the same thing



Because we all reaped the rewards from

Unfinished Business #1 (2014)
Unfinished Business #2 (2015)
Unfinished Business #3 (2016)
Unfinished Business #4 (2017)
Unfinished Business #5 (2018)
Unfinished Business #6 (2019)

and thought, what the heck, let's go for Unfinished Business #7

JBB is blinded by his loyalty to a coach that is no longer the right coach for this team.

Period

I can only imagine the shit the franchise would face firing Coop at the beginning of April when we just finished game 82, pounding the Bruins 6-3.
"You just won 62 games and you fired him!?"

 

[DFC]

I can only imagine the **** the franchise would face firing Coop at the beginning of April when we just finished game 82, pounding the Bruins 6-3.
"You just won 62 games and you fired him!?"

The guy is trying to force a story that makes no sense to make sense.

 

[Sky04]

"We only traded Boyle because Cooper hated him"

 

[Vasilevskiy]

"We only traded Boyle because Cooper hated him"

Brian Boyle's the saviour. Don't you dare.

 

[Todd1a]

 

[Boltswin]

“Christian Hockey”

I was just thinking a couple days ago that I’ve never seen a hockey player thank God for winning and I’ve never seen a player of any sport thank God for losing.

 

[These Are The Days]

Too early yet Todd. Had we gotten swept in Sweden this would be justified.

All the Lightning have to do is win their games in hand and we're 2nd place in the division. That's doable considering we have the Jets and Rangers coming up next. Not only did we have a bunch of stinkers but every team in the East not named NYI, WSH and BOS are having them left right and center too. Especially Carolina. The fact we are so far down the standings has as much to do with the fact that we're simply not playing any games as anything else. Cooper is rightfully on the hot seat with us and had we completely botched this trip to Sweden like I had feared (and thank God I was wrong) I think asking the question of his replacement would be warranted as I said in the 2nd sentence. But that's not what happened. We not only won, we won convincingly against a team that's quite frankly not as good as it thinks it is as we should. I think it was Macho who called them paper tigers and it's spot on when talking about Buffalo right now. At worst we are in prime position to control our destiny and we played like we SHOULD have.

It's no excuse for the fact we've been playing like total shit on and off all season but the last 2 games looked like we MIGHT have turned the page. Better now than waiting to be last place in January and end up missing the playoffs by a point despite playing like .800 hockey the rest of the season like we did 3 years ago.