2019-20 Coaching Discussion: The Jon Cooper Watch

[Felonious Python]

This feels relevant given what Bish said a while back.


I still prefer a guy who can muster it when needed (even if its not often), but there's all types.

 

[Master P]

inb4 we swap coaches with Toronto

 

[Felonious Python]

Brian Burke: In my mind, start the clock on Babcock - Sportsnet.ca

 

[Fabiobest]

inb4 we swap coaches with Toronto

Not now.
Imho, if something will happen (and it's a big IF), we'll see it at the end of the season.
I could believe that Babcock will be fired before the post season...but I think Cooper will stay here till June, at least.

 

[Byrddog]

Not now.
Imho, if something will happen (and it's a big IF), we'll see it at the end of the season.
I could believe that Babcock will be fired before the post season...but I think Cooper will stay here till June, at least.

The thought of Babcock makes me want to throw up. He is in a perfect place let him be so I can hate the Leafs and him at the same time.

 

[Felonious Python]

Not now.
Imho, if something will happen (and it's a big IF), we'll see it at the end of the season.
I could believe that Babcock will be fired before the post season...but I think Cooper will stay here till June, at least.

This would probably be the case. I don't think that there's this urgency for Babs to sign somewhere immediately. He can work again when he wants. He's still getting paid by the Leafs until he does (and would likely take a pay cut to coach elsewhere. Babs is already the highest paid coach in the league.)

All the coach openings that do happen in the offseason would mean that they'd compete over him like a top free agent player. Remember the Babcock-to-Buffalo push the summer he went to Toronto?

 

[Fabiobest]

This would probably be the case. I don't think that there's this urgency for Babs to sign somewhere immediately. He can work again when he wants. He's still getting paid by the Leafs until he does (and would likely take a pay cut to coach elsewhere. Babs is already the highest paid coach in the league.)

All the coach openings that do happen in the offseason would mean that they'd compete over him like a top free agent player. Remember the Babcock-to-Buffalo push the summer he went to Toronto?

I don't remember the Buffalo push, to be honest. But it's not hard to believe that, if Babs will be fired soon, next summer he'll be as important as a big free agent.
But the puzzle is not completed. I mean...if I can believe that Babs is in a hot position right now, Coop seat is not as hot as the Babs one. I follow all our reporters/journalists/insiders and nobody is talking about this scenario.
I think we're very far to fire Cooper right now.

 

[Fabiobest]

The thought of Babcock makes me want to throw up. He is in a perfect place let him be so I can hate the Leafs and him at the same time.

Considering the GM Toronto has, I won't be surprised anymore about anything.
Poor Babs xD xD xD He's not in a good position right now xD

 

[Felonious Python]

I don't remember the Buffalo push, to be honest. But it's not hard to believe that, if Babs will be fired soon, next summer he'll be as important as a big free agent.
But the puzzle is not completed. I mean...if I can believe that Babs is in a hot position right now, Coop seat is not as hot as the Babs one. I follow all our reporters/journalists/insiders and nobody is talking about this scenario.
I think we're very far to fire Cooper right now.

Mike Babcock says Sabres' offer was bigger than Maple Leafs'

 

[Todd1a]

Brian Burke: In my mind, start the clock on Babcock - Sportsnet.ca

When need to steal keefe before the leafs promote him

 

[Todd1a]

Not now.
Imho, if something will happen (and it's a big IF), we'll see it at the end of the season.
I could believe that Babcock will be fired before the post season...but I think Cooper will stay here till June, at least.

Probably unless cooper loses the next 9 games in a row I don’t see him being fired during the season

 

[Fabiobest]

Mike Babcock says Sabres' offer was bigger than Maple Leafs'

Interesting...So Babs has refused an higher salary in Buffalo.
Also next summer I suppose he'll have many possibilities...

 

[Fabiobest]

Probably unless cooper loses the next 9 games in a row I don’t see him being fired during the season

I think Cooper will stay here, at least, till the end of the season.
Also if Tampa will fall in the last place in the Conference, Cooper won't be fired now. Imho of course

 

[Todd1a]

Interesting...So Babs has refused an higher salary in Buffalo.
Also next summer I suppose he'll have many possibilities...

yep he wanted to coach the leafs

 

[Byrddog]

Everyone here is not happy with the way Coop has always monkeyed with the lines and massaged his system. I fully believe there are two problems right now. The team loses confidence when playing from behind for one. The other issue is Coop is demanding defensemen pinch in more and add more goals from the blue liners. That is all well and good for Heddy and Mac but the rest need to be along the blueline firing bombs because they are not capable of finishing down low. You do not go from one of the best defenses in the league last year and add Shattenkirk and take a step back defensively. At some point Coop will revert back to the system from last season and stabilize the lines. This team has too much talent not to make the playoffs unless Coop goes all out bonehead. Hes not going to be fired unless he loses the room and there is little indication of that other than an off remark from Stammer

 

[Fabiobest]

yep he wanted to coach the leafs

And, so, probably after the Maple Leafs adventure, he'll pick choose another team, no matter the salary.
We've to see, in case, if our team will be interested in him.

 

[Felonious Python]

And, so, probably after the Maple Leafs adventure, he'll pick choose another team, no matter the salary.
We've to see, in case, if our team will be interested in him.

I suspect the salary has something to do with it, although it's not the deciding factor.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Everyone here is not happy with the way Coop has always monkeyed with the lines and massaged his system. I fully believe there are two problems right now. The team loses confidence when playing from behind for one. The other issue is Coop is demanding defensemen pinch in more and add more goals from the blue liners. That is all well and good for Heddy and Mac but the rest need to be along the blueline firing bombs because they are not capable of finishing down low. You do not go from one of the best defenses in the league last year and add Shattenkirk and take a step back defensively. At some point Coop will revert back to the system from last season and stabilize the lines. This team has too much talent not to make the playoffs unless Coop goes all out bonehead. Hes not going to be fired unless he loses the room and there is little indication of that other than an off remark from Stammer

Sorry but what on earth are you talking about? The defense pinched more last year then this year.

We also haven’t taken a step back defensively. We are giving up way less high danger chances then last year.

 

[Felonious Python]

Is there a website with zone entry stats? Almost everything I can find is about shot generation.

 

[Fabiobest]

I suspect the salary has something to do with it, although it's not the deciding factor.

For sure it's important but it won't be the key factor imho.
I think he'll prefer to join, I don't know, the Bolts earning 1-2M less than, for example, in Arizona.

 

[Todd1a]

Sorry but what on earth are you talking about? The defense pinched more last year then this year.

We also haven’t taken a step back defensively. We are giving up way less high danger chances then last year.

Right now Vasy sucks his GAA is over 3 and his save percentage is like right at 90 needs to be better. Some games we can't score goals to save our lives especially when we are down a goal. Last year when we got down 2-0 we didn't care and we could come back this year we have no done that.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Right now Vasy sucks his GAA is over 3 and his save percentage is like right at 90 needs to be better. Some games we can't score goals to save our lives especially when we are down a goal. Last year when we got down 2-0 we didn't care and we could come back this year we have no done that.

I mean honestly the only difference is a mix of bad luck and the Kuch/Point combo not producing.

Other then Kuch and Point sucking our team is better.

As for goaltenders it is very tricky. How many pucks went in on vasi that he should of stopped? There is a lot of luck involved at this position

 

[CupsOverCash]

I mean honestly the only difference is a mix of bad luck and the Kuch/Point combo not producing.

Other then Kuch and Point sucking our team is better.

As for goaltenders it is very tricky. How many pucks went in on vasi that he should of stopped? There is a lot of luck involved at this position

I think for the most part the team has played well vs good teams. They could do better against teams they should beat but I feel this team has had that habit in the past. Besides last season. Yea they should win those games, everybody knows that.

I agree though about the rest. Kuch and Point dont look anywhere near as effective as they were last year. I also think the team is deeper this year. Once some things come together and Vasi plays like Vasi they should be tough to beat. In the regular season at least. Remember our troubles in the playoffs have had as much to do with our stars not showing up as it has with not being able to beat a trap.

 

[Felonious Python]

 

[Byrddog]

Sorry but what on earth are you talking about? The defense pinched more last year then this year.

We also haven’t taken a step back defensively. We are giving up way less high danger chances then last year.

I have no idea what games you are watching but I can not count the number of times Heddy Mac and Satt have been burned when they have pinched in this year. It could well be that the O is not getting back covering for them as well that's sure possible. But thus far this year the team is giving up 3.47 GPG vs 2.7 GPG last year. Also the PK was a league leading 85% and this season so far is 76.7 21st in the league so yes overall defense has taken a hit so far. Like I said it could well be the O not covering as well for the D that have pinched. When you get into advanced stats you may be right that the chances given up are not as many high chance but what matters is the puck in the back of our net vs the number of times we put in the back of their net.

Now As I have posted before it looks to me like Coop is putting emphasis on the D scoring more that is all well and good but you still have to prevent the other team from scoring. Right now thru 17 games the team has allowed 59 goals or 3.47 GPG the entire season last year they gave up 221 goals or 2.7 GPG. So its one of two things Vasi is not a Vezna caliber goalie and last year was a fluke or TEAM D is worse now than last season. Right now the team is pacing to allow 284 goals 63 more than last year.

Adding Shat and subtracting two stay at home guys is going to add a few goals to the Blueline but at what cost. You may not agree and that is fine but I have played and watched this game for over 40 years. And have seen this happen over and over. There is a balance with Blueline scoring now days the days of Bourque, Coffee and Housley are over. A team now is far better off with a D guy that has triple the asst's to goals.