Post-Game Talk: 2018 Trade Deadline Debacle | We acquired *what?*

[F A N]

Well. Got to say that I was underwhelmed and a bit disappointed. I was expecting/hoping that Vanek would be traded for at least a 4th, expected a 3rd, and was hoping for a 2nd.

The Vanek trade to me was not for good value. Motte to me is like a smaller version of Vey with better skating and hands. With Columbus, he's been their Brendan Gaunce. Motte's offensive production is less than his actual offensive performance. In terms of his skating and skills there's not much to complain about. He made the Blackhawks roster on opening night last season. There is certainly upside but would I have traded a 2nd or 3rd for him? Hell no. A 4th? It's OK but probably not. A 5th is okay. Don't get me wrong, I think Motte can be an NHL player, but he basically has until next training camp / start of next season to establish himself.

The Leipsic trade was a surprise. Let's face it, anything for Holm (if he isn't going to be given a chance) is intriguing. With that said, I really liked Leipsic as a prospect. I think he is capable of being a 4th line player in the NHL. The problem is that he isn't exactly better than what we have now on the 4th line.

 

[me2]

The Leipsic trade was a surprise. Let's face it, anything for Holm (if he isn't going to be given a chance) is intriguing. With that said, I really liked Leipsic as a prospect. I think he is capable of being a 4th line player in the NHL. The problem is that he isn't exactly better than what we have now on the 4th line.

I'd be worried if I was Granlund. That's whose job he will be likely to take.

 

[DarrenX]

I just wish Benning would use the levers available to him. Salary cap for one. Need a cap dump? That's gonna cost you.

More importantly, he fails to acquire picks at the deadline, when they are least valuable because of immediacy bias - GMs are more concerned with the playoffs and the draft is far away.

Then he tries to recoup those picks at the draft, when picks are the most valuable.

*sigh*

Yep. The Stanley Cup is ultimately won on the ice, but first you have to build a contender, and that happens in the boardroom, where, in all the team-building drafting and trading decisions you make, you build a winner through a slow accumulation of smart decisions. Not every trade and draft pick has to be a winner, but they have to win more often than average, because everyone else is trying to build a contender too. You have to be able to see value, and have a plan for when you want that value to come to fruition.

What we have here is the opposite... a slow accumulation of *dumb* decisions, which are the kind of decisions made by *dumb* people. y2k is right... this team is going *nowhere* as long as these people are at the helm. Elias Pettersen is not going to save us... the Oilers have *Connor McDavid*, but they're still going nowhere because they are also led by *dumb* people, who also make *dumb* decisions. (like trading the pick that became Barzal for Griffen Reinhart). There's 20 players dressed to play every night... every one of them represents *decisions* that were made.

Y'all can rag on Mike Gillis all you want, that he didn't get it done on the end (even though winning the Cup is partly down to luck), or he didn't handle the goaltending situation right (even though we don't know what his options were), but if we had kept Gillis we wouldn't be in this mess. Gillis was *smart*, and made, on average, *smart decisions*, given the team's resources and priorities (a contender wants to win now). The results might not have been much better but we'd have a much more promising future than we do right now.

 

[lawrence]

what the f*** just happened??? oh right

nothing!

very disappointed in benning today. I thought the days of trading 1st rounders for 5 month rentals were behind me, nope.

someone trolled benning. very disappointed in him today.

 

[PhilMick]

Flames radio having a good laugh at Benning's expense this morning

 

[Hit the post]

I mean, given what GM's did today, would it have mattered if the Sedin twins waived their NTC and given them a list of 3 teams? Who would even want them?

If Benning had the ability to retain salary on both of them (he didn't, to be fair to him - one of those three retention options was used by Gillis [Luongo trade]; reason why I hated the Hansen deal), I think there MIGHT have been interest. Certainly no interest (nobody could take on their cap hits without major contracts [likely bad] coming the other way) if no salary retention.

what the **** just happened??? oh right

nothing!

very disappointed in benning today.

That's right sport. A rebuilding team does jack**** for two out of three trade deadlines (transactions involving minor leag. don't count).

 

[manroth19]

Brutal TDL for sure, not a single pick coming to us is pretty pathetic. More and more I think about it, not trying to sound too pro benning cuz I’m not, but I can see that being the best offer for vanek from cbj. Cbj and vanek does not seem like a good fit at all. “Pp specialist?” Pfffft whatever, he’s not even on our top unit and we’re the worst team in the league. Cbj is a big heavy team with torts as the coach......vanek seems like an odd target for them

Benning failed big time don’t get me wrong but it’s not crazy to think that was the best cbj would give up, the rest of the league.......who knows

 

[Foundational Player]

I can't believe we traded for Jussi Jokinen.

Need more mentorship, not enough mentors on the roster.

 

[Jevo]

Brutal TDL for sure, not a single pick coming to us is pretty pathetic. More and more I think about it, not trying to sound too pro benning cuz I’m not, but I can see that being the best offer for vanek from cbj. Cbj and vanek does not seem like a good fit at all. “Pp specialist?” Pfffft whatever, he’s not even on our top unit and we’re the worst team in the league. Cbj is a big heavy team with torts as the coach......vanek seems like an odd target for them

Benning failed big time don’t get me wrong but it’s not crazy to think that was the best cbj would give up, the rest of the league.......who knows

CBJ has the 2nd worst PP in the league, and PP is one of the few things where Canucks aren't bottom tier this year, and Vanek is one of the best PP players on the team. He has as many PP points as the best players on CBJ. Even with less penalties called in the playoffs, good PP and PK are an important part in winning games. And PP and PK are weaknesses of CBJ, so it makes sense that they try to improve it at the deadline.

 

[manroth19]

CBJ has the 2nd worst PP in the league, and PP is one of the few things where Canucks aren't bottom tier this year, and Vanek is one of the best PP players on the team. He has as many PP points as the best players on CBJ. Even with less penalties called in the playoffs, good PP and PK are an important part in winning games. And PP and PK are weaknesses of CBJ, so it makes sense that they try to improve it at the deadline.

Totally agree with what you’re saying but my point was we’re still talking abou a guy that’s gonna be on their 2nd unit and a low minute guy toi. Wouldn’t surprise me a bit if he’s a healthy scratch come playoffs

 

[Pure West]

Of all the things that we can criticize this management group for, I don't think the Vanek deal, and deadline day in general is one of them. We saw in free agency last season what little interest there is in Vanek, even coming off a pretty solid season with Detroit, and that's even before we get into how he could contribute on a good team likely seeing less playing time. I'm not surprised there wasn't a huge market for him, and even if we were offered a 5th rounder or something, is it really something worth rioting over? Particularly since we got a player that's probably an equivalent to that.

Now the Gudbranson deal, thats another matter.

 

[Melvin]

Of all the things that we can criticize this management group for, I don't think the Vanek deal, and deadline day in general is one of them. We saw in free agency last season what little interest there is in Vanek, even coming off a pretty solid season with Detroit, and that's even before we get into how he could contribute on a good team likely seeing less playing time. I'm not surprised there wasn't a huge market for him, and even if we were offered a 5th rounder or something, is it really something worth rioting over? Particularly since we got a player that's probably an equivalent to that.

Now the Gudbranson deal, thats another matter.

That's not what people were rioting over.

We have lots of veteran players that are not needed and can be moved for picks, not just Vanek. It's the approach that has people upset, the vision and lack of understanding over where we are as a team.

I posted before the deadline that the return for Vanek was unimportant the important thing is that we shop as many veterans as possible. We didn't, because linden and benning see these players as important to the short term competitiveness of our team.

I said that whether we get a 3rd or a 6th for Vanek doesn't matter much to me. Somehow we didn't even get that, but whatever. It is a distraction from the much bigger problem.

 

[StreetHawk]

The one thing we don't know about gillis DarrenX, is how he would have handled all of his NTC contracts.

He moved Lu after he demanded a trade out. Got markstrom and Mathias and retained $800k on Lu to get it done.

Benning:
Garrison, 2 years with the team accepted a deal back to the state of FLA.

Kesler, limited to chi and Ana. Package overall was about what you expect. Roster guy in bonino to offset cap hit, 1st rounder, prospect/player. They blew the prospect because they were doing a retool cause a rebuild wasn't fair to the twins. Didn't want to wait the extra 2 years for a guy like Theodore to develop.

Bieksa, went for a 2nd.
Burrows went for dahlen

Hamhuis should have been moved. Limited to chi and dal.

Edler, should be moved around the draft. He can then sign his extension once July hits.

Twins, let them walk in the summer and turn the page.

The trade-off with full ntc is a lower cap, but it will limit where you can deal the player and what you can get back.

 

[BoHorvat 53]

And here I was trying to argue anything less than a 2nd for Vanek would be a disappointment. 3rd would've still been passable; this is outright depressing.

 

[StreetHawk]

If Benning had the ability to retain salary on both of them (he didn't, to be fair to him - one of those three retention options was used by Gillis [Luongo trade]; reason why I hated the Hansen deal), I think there MIGHT have been interest. Certainly no interest (nobody could take on their cap hits without major contracts [likely bad] coming the other way) if no salary retention.


That's right sport. A rebuilding team does jack**** for two out of three trade deadlines (transactions involving minor leag. don't count).

Even if they could have retained, are the twins a fit on the top 6 teams was my point?

Vegas made the most sense. But do the twins fit their style of play?

Nashville already deep enough at C.
Winnipeg, statsny better option than the twins.
Pitt, same as Nash.
Wash, they need more speed to compete with Pitt not less.
TB, they are a speed team. Not a fit.
Boston, yeah right.....

 

[Ryp37]

The excuses coming out from our fan base are quite hilarious and almost shill like

There's the classic "late round picks are long shots anyways"

Turned into "these guys are basically what you want out of late picks anyways"

Sprinkled with a bit of "one of these guys might be the next Burrows!"

The newest one being "we had nothing no one wanted"

Existence is pain.

 

[Hit the post]

Even if they could have retained, are the twins a fit on the top 6 teams was my point?

Vegas made the most sense. But do the twins fit their style of play?

Nashville already deep enough at C.
Winnipeg, statsny better option than the twins.
Pitt, same as Nash.
Wash, they need more speed to compete with Pitt not less.
TB, they are a speed team. Not a fit.
Boston, yeah right.....

Well I never said it would be easy; but that comes with the job of being a GM (being able to sell). He's good at going after what he wants (one can debate whether what he wants/wanted was good....) but selling something he doesn't? What about teams looking just to make the playoffs (I'm not expecting a "king's ransom"/1st round picks for the twins after all)? Any GM's whos jobs might be jeopardy if they don't?

 

[y2kcanucks]

Of all the things that we can criticize this management group for, I don't think the Vanek deal, and deadline day in general is one of them. We saw in free agency last season what little interest there is in Vanek, even coming off a pretty solid season with Detroit, and that's even before we get into how he could contribute on a good team likely seeing less playing time. I'm not surprised there wasn't a huge market for him, and even if we were offered a 5th rounder or something, is it really something worth rioting over? Particularly since we got a player that's probably an equivalent to that.

Now the Gudbranson deal, thats another matter.

I think management certainly can be criticized for their performance at the trade deadline. We saw several teams around the league stockpile draft picks. Teams like the Rangers rip up the core of their team to rebuild. And then we saw Benning, acquiring zero draft picks and really not trading anyone. A team this bad should not have many untouchables, but Benning seemingly did not want to part with anyone.

 

[Samzilla]

The excuses coming out from our fan base are quite hilarious and almost shill like

There's the classic "late round picks are long shots anyways"

Turned into "these guys are basically what you want out of late picks anyways"

Sprinkled with a bit of "one of these guys might be the next Burrows!"

The newest one being "we had nothing no one wanted"

Existence is pain.

This is my favourite because it's tacit acknowledgment that Benning built a shitty team.

 

[Ryp37]

This is my favourite because it's tacit acknowledgment that Benning built a ****ty team.

Nah they've somehow managed to blame that on Gillis and ignore Benning wasting all his good assets on poor returns

 

[TruKnyte]

I think management certainly can be criticized for their performance at the trade deadline. We saw several teams around the league stockpile draft picks. Teams like the Rangers rip up the core of their team to rebuild. And then we saw Benning, acquiring zero draft picks and really not trading anyone. A team this bad should not have many untouchables, but Benning seemingly did not want to part with anyone.

And that is what will screw this team over in the long run. We need to be offloading vets for picks/prospects while they still have some value, rather than letting them go for nothing.

 

[StreetHawk]

Well I never said it would be easy; but that comes with the job of being a GM (being able to sell). He's good at going after what he wants (one can debate whether what he wants/wanted was good....) but selling something he doesn't? What about teams looking just to make the playoffs (I'm not expecting a "king's ransom"/1st round picks for the twins after all)? Any GM's whos jobs might be jeopardy if they don't?

LA, Ana, Cal didn't make much of a move. SJ got Kane at a good price.
STL sold. Dal did nothing. Min did nothing. Col is out of it I think now.

Car did nothing. NYI did nothing. Phi got their goalie. NJ added depth.

None of the non elite teams added anything.

Whether it's because of the price or just not feeling that good about their Team who knows.

What Benning and linden should be doing is looking at how the rangers operated. Moved who they were supposed to and their best trade chip. All while still.holding into king henrik. Can't tell me king Hank isnt as appreciate by the rangers as the twins are in Van. But they don't let that interfere with making the best move for the team. He's got 3 years left and he turns 36 in March. How many teams want a 36 year old goalie even with retention? How have older guys like Lu, Miller, rinne, Smith Anderson been faring over the past couple of years.

 

[passive voice]

Trade Deadline Success Index!
-Sutter out +7 points
-Gudbranson out +2 points
-Vanek out +1 point
-Biega out +1 point
-Hutton out -2 point
-Tanev out -3 points
-Draft picks in +(5 - round#) points each (min 0.5)
-Prospects in are all over the map but as a baseline recent draftees are probably ~= to their pick round.

Would like to see a solid five here.

Lol I forgot to check. He got a charitable 3.5. In hindsight I can't believe I didn't have "0.1 points for every 23-yo who hasn't yet proven to be an NHLer" on the list.

 

[Addison Rae]

Lol I forgot to check. He got a charitable 3.5. In hindsight I can't believe I didn't have "0.1 points for every 23-yo who hasn't yet proven to be an NHLer" on the list.

Gudbranson extension should have been an automatic fail.

 

[Melvin]

Lol I forgot to check. He got a charitable 3.5. In hindsight I can't believe I didn't have "0.1 points for every 23-yo who hasn't yet proven to be an NHLer" on the list.

I did point this out to you:

Oh I like this.

Need to somehow minus points for non prospects or age gap garbage.

Also it is technically not an index.

Sorry, had to.